Mark Sawyer

[Wakefield Ram]

MS has put a lot of money into Dewsbury, he took the club out of administration, stabilised it and built it into a good club with multiple income streams. He's refused to splash money on buying short term glory but like Batley, Dewsbury have stayed on the Championship with no financial crises. He is an on-course bookmaker, so he's in no need of money from the Rams. And if he did want some extra income, there's easier ways than running a RL club.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, silverback said:

no trick required fella, hes made a dam site more than kevin as you have a lot more income streams coming into your club/property, but maybe he dont take a penny out the coffers and just does the job for love a dewsbury, have never understood all these years how a ceo/chairman of any club can make a living out the place they run,call me daft but if  it was;nt for the said clubs and the function rooms and carparks for boot sales and driving/bike lessons they wouldent get owt at all. unless its me getting things wrong and it all goes to the said club inc profit from food/ale ect.or do they just get a wage..

In both cases (MS and KN) I know that it begins with a minus. Personally I reckon you need to be a bit mad to get involved in running a small RL club - no financial gain, plenty of hard work, tons of critcism and innuendo and, sometimes, a bit of success on the filed when you say "this is what makes it all worthwhile".

I wouldn't do it, that's for sure.

[the old nine ole]

6 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

In both cases (MS and KN) I know that it begins with a minus. Personally I reckon you need to be a bit mad to get involved in running a small RL club - no financial gain, plenty of hard work, tons of critcism and innuendo and, sometimes, a bit of success on the filed when you say "this is what makes it all worthwhile".

I wouldn't do it, that's for sure.

Totally agree!!  

They must be masochists!!  

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

You may have already seen this........ https://www.totalrl.com/a-qa-with-new-bradford-bulls-shareholder-mark-sawyer/ 

[Dog forever]

Not bothered reading much info on ms and his plans with bradford bulls. But apparently he is rumoured to be turning the club around and making it a profitable business.  So if this is true will he be scrapping their full time and going only part time to be able to rebuild a debt riddled club. Let's wait and see.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, Dog forever said:

Not bothered reading much info on ms and his plans with bradford bulls. But apparently he is rumoured to be turning the club around and making it a profitable business.  So if this is true will he be scrapping their full time and going only part time to be able to rebuild a debt riddled club. Let's wait and see.

They're having a hybrid 1st team squad with a budget of around twice that of Dewsbury's, running a reserves, academy and women's teams....and still charging the most expensive admission fees in the Championship 

[Wakefield Ram]

MS has experience of turning a club successfully around from administration, as that is what he did at Dewsbury. He has always been a straightforward bloke and true to his word. If Bradford did fold, it would be a significant financial loss for Dewsbury in terms of rental and other income from hosting the Bulls games. Turning the club around will take a few years and if that means scrapping reserves etc.. MS will do it. I haven't forgotten the season we finished next to bottom of the whole RFL as MS wanted to build for the following season and didn't want to waste money buying a few short-term wins. The Bulls are lucky that he's helping them.

[coolie]

4 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

MS has experience of turning a club successfully around from administration, as that is what he did at Dewsbury. He has always been a straightforward bloke and true to his word. If Bradford did fold, it would be a significant financial loss for Dewsbury in terms of rental and other income from hosting the Bulls games. Turning the club around will take a few years and if that means scrapping reserves etc.. MS will do it. I haven't forgotten the season we finished next to bottom of the whole RFL as MS wanted to build for the following season and didn't want to waste money buying a few short-term wins. The Bulls are lucky that he's helping them.

Careful mate..... 

Spouting positivity will not be accepted 

 

There's no sensational headline in seeing it really as it is 

[Piggy's mate]

22 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

In both cases (MS and KN) I know that it begins with a minus. Personally I reckon you need to be a bit mad to get involved in running a small RL club - no financial gain

I guess they're all doing it out of the goodness of their hearts as I'm repeatably told there's no money in it...

 

I guess MS, KN are both just closet Bulls fans and eager to see them push they're own team(s) nearer relegation?

Come on BSJ your a stalwart defender of Chairman Sawyer! MS as a bookie doesn't back a lame horse unless he has the inside info on a couple of other runners..

[the old nine ole]

10 minutes ago, Piggy's mate said:

I guess they're all doing it out of the goodness of their hearts as I'm repeatably told there's no money in it...

 

I guess MS, KN are both just closet Bulls fans and eager to see them push they're own team(s) nearer relegation?

Come on BSJ your a stalwart defender of Chairman Sawyer! MS as a bookie doesn't back a lame horse unless he has the inside info on a couple of other runners..

on reflection ....the way I see it now is it's their  'hard earned'  .. and they have earned the right to spend it on whatever they want!!    ....  

But just for info being a minority share holder in a business does not give you control of the business .... I have shares in a few businesses and all I get is an annual dividend and votes at the AGM  .... the directors have the responsibility of control and I haven't seen it anywhere that MS is, or is going to be a director of the Bulls!! .... he is simply an investor in a business and may or may not get a good return on his investment. ..... I suspect it might just be a good investment .. Where can I buy some shares??

If his influence extends beyond that of a shareholder then that is another matter ... but again the rules of the RFL are complex indeed!

I still think it looks a bit grubby though and does open the door for criticism,   ...  MS will now have to deal with the inevitable fall out!!   ....

For what its worth I believe in MS's integrity and if he says he is committed to the Rams ... that's good enough for me!

[Piggy's mate]

So hypothetically, MS or KN for that matter invests in the bulls and they finish third bottom and Dewsbury or Batley finish in the spot below them, everyone will say "great investment that MS/KN"

It must just be me..

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

43 minutes ago, the old nine ole said:

on reflection ....the way I see it now is it's their  'hard earned'  .. and they have earned the right to spend it on whatever they want!!    ....  

But just for info being a minority share holder in a business does not give you control of the business .... I have shares in a few businesses and all I get is an annual dividend and votes at the AGM  .... the directors have the responsibility of control and I haven't seen it anywhere that MS is, or is going to be a director of the Bulls!! .... he is simply an investor in a business and may or may not get a good return on his investment. ..... I suspect it might just be a good investment .. Where can I buy some shares??

If his influence extends beyond that of a shareholder then that is another matter ... but again the rules of the RFL are complex indeed!

I still think it looks a bit grubby though and does open the door for criticism,   ...  MS will now have to deal with the inevitable fall out!!   ....

For what its worth I believe in MS's integrity and if he says he is committed to the Rams ... that's good enough for me!

MS is negotiating and agreeing player spend budgets with the RFL for the Bulls and some of his quotes eg "People must understand I’m putting a team of shareholders together with myself and Nigel’s (Wood) family the major ones" would suggest that he's a bit more than being a mere shareholder.

[Blind side johnny]

8 hours ago, Dog forever said:

Not bothered reading much info on ms and his plans with bradford bulls. But apparently he is rumoured to be turning the club around and making it a profitable business.  So if this is true will he be scrapping their full time and going only part time to be able to rebuild a debt riddled club. Let's wait and see.

They have just sold five of their better players to Hull KR to produce a necessary boost to their finances.

We are DR with Hull KR next season.

Do you see this as an anti-Dewsbury move?

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Piggy's mate said:

So hypothetically, MS or KN for that matter invests in the bulls and they finish third bottom and Dewsbury or Batley finish in the spot below them, everyone will say "great investment that MS/KN"

It must just be me..

Maybe not PM but you appear to be in a select group. I hope that you understand the difference between buying share capital and injecting finance into a business. If he or others had simply used that money to buy a row of terraced houses then spent all of his time doing them up would that be working against the interests of their clubs?

MS is a bit more than "just a bookie" you might be interested to know.

[Piggy's mate]

I guess if you've no money to sign any players getting em free from HKR might work, or at least until the rug is pulled out from under you..

[Piggy's mate]

1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

Maybe not PM but you appear to be in a select group. I hope that you understand the difference between buying share capital and injecting finance into a business. If he or others had simply used that money to buy a row of terraced houses then spent all of his time doing them up would that be working against the interests of their clubs?

MS is a bit more than "just a bookie" you might be interested to know.

Ha ha, iceberg... what iceberg

[Blind side johnny]

3 minutes ago, Piggy's mate said:

I guess if you've no money to sign any players getting em free from HKR might work, or at least until the rug is pulled out from under you..

You must be writing a very long list for Santa this year PM. It is just such a shame that you look likely to be disappointed once again.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

To play a bit of devil's advocate....... How can someone who should be acting to increase the income of his business actively trying to remove one of that business' income streams not be a conflict of interest?

[Blind side johnny]

2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

To play a bit of devil's advocate....... How can someone who should be acting to increase the income of his business actively trying to remove one of that business' income streams not be a conflict of interest?

Sorry LTS, you've lost me with that one - which income stream?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

6 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Sorry LTS, you've lost me with that one - which income stream?

Rent from the Bulls for using your ground.

[Wakefield Ram]

Yes, lost me as well. If MS keeps the Bulls in business, Dewsbury benefit and the Bulls benefit. If the Bulls both go out of business, they both lose. Looks more like a convergence of interest rather than a conflict.

On the playing front, MS stays out of it, so he won't have any influence there. I know it's unusual in RL, but he is a straightforward bloke. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Yes, lost me as well. If MS keeps the Bulls in business, Dewsbury benefit and the Bulls benefit. If the Bulls both go out of business, they both lose. Looks more like a convergence of interest rather than a conflict.

On the playing front, MS stays out of it, so he won't have any influence there. I know it's unusual in RL, but he is a straightforward bloke. 

He's also said one of his main jobs at the Bulls is to get them back to Bradford ie remove an (apparently important from the write up of your fans' Forum in September) income stream from Dewsbury Rams. How can that not be a conflict of interest?

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

He's also said one of his main jobs at the Bulls is to get them back to Bradford ie remove an (apparently important from the write up of your fans' Forum in September) income stream from Dewsbury Rams. How can that not be a conflict of interest?

I understand your point now LTS. At the Rams fans forum in September there had been a great deal of angst from some supporters about the Bulls playing at our ground at all, whether we would actually earn enough from it and whether they would become permanent tenants. MS addressed all of these issues in great detail, more detail in fact than you might ever expect from any club chairman.

One key point that he made was that the Bulls would definitely be with us in 2020; they might be with us in 2021; and they shouldn't be with us after that. The reasoning was simple: the longer they play at a ground outside of Bradford the more quickly their support will fade away; this would be bad for Bradford and bad for us. Bad for us as the income that we would derive from their attendances would dwindle rapidly. Hence the club has always been looking at a two year horizon at most for this tenancy.

This statement was made before anyone had any idea that the Bradford club was going to be put up for sale. I see no conflict of interest in MS's statements, just possibly a greater degree of transparency than most people are used to in this sport.

[grumpyoldram]

56 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

He's also said one of his main jobs at the Bulls is to get them back to Bradford ie remove an (apparently important from the write up of your fans' Forum in September) income stream from Dewsbury Rams. How can that not be a conflict of interest?

Think he has to attempt to get the Bulls back to Bradford somehow, and soon as possible. As it is, the bulls will lose fans, as we did when we spent a few seasons in the dog kennel (some of my happiest times from a rugby point of view BTW). The longer the club is away from it's roots, the more fans they'll lose to the point where their future becomes bleak. In that respect, the fans must be given a light at the end of a short tunnel to keep them on board. Under those constraints, it should be a win win for both clubs. Who knows, when they reach their rightful place at the head of the table alongside Wigan et al, they will fight the championships corner to show their gratitude. 

[grumpyoldram]

2 minutes ago, grumpyoldram said:

Think he has to attempt to get the Bulls back to Bradford somehow, and soon as possible. As it is, the bulls will lose fans, as we did when we spent a few seasons in the dog kennel (some of my happiest times from a rugby point of view BTW). The longer the club is away from it's roots, the more fans they'll lose to the point where their future becomes bleak. In that respect, the fans must be given a light at the end of a short tunnel to keep them on board. Under those constraints, it should be a win win for both clubs. Who knows, when they reach their rightful place at the head of the table alongside Wigan et al, they will fight the championships corner to show their gratitude. 

Sorry BSJ - Great minds think alike eh ? Seems I was a few minutes too late.