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Sir Kevin Sinfield

International RL and Tv money

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15 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Interesting to see the comparison to the Six Nations. The rugby union community is deeply worried about it going behind a paywall and fear drifting away from the public psyche. A lot of the blame seems to be at the door of CVC (private equity company).

For us, the best thing we have done in recent years is getting our internationals back on the BBC, really positive to have all World Cup matches live on BBC with over half on the main channels.

The BBC would still pleasure themselves over the 6 Nations whichever channel it was televised.

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Let's be honest, those figures are pretty good. They are test matches with little context to the general public, little promotion, next to no coverage in advance from the BBC and the scheduling was all over the place. 

That figure for England v Scotland should really give some of those people obsessed with Ashes series a wake-up call.

There is a decent base level there and huge potential for growth. 

And I fully agree with SKS's stance on this that we shouldn't be including all this stuff in main tv deals. 

Edited by Dave T
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I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

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1 hour ago, North but south said:

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

You are mixing up tv coverage of a single club with international games.

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7 hours ago, North but south said:

No just generally surprised to see it advertised at all. 

Whereabouts in Mexico are you?

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15 hours ago, North but south said:

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

Be interested to know which channel etc that is.

EDIT

Answering my own question. It's ESPN who have been covering Argentinian RU (and now Super Rugby) for a while as well.

And, here's a handy page on the very professional Six Nations site about international broadcasters https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/tv/

Edited by gingerjon

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 hours ago, North but south said:

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

They do have domestic Rugby in Mexico. There's even a Mexican group looking at entering Major League Rugby in the future.

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16 hours ago, North but south said:

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

A soccer mad country. There’s a reason why none of the major us sports leagues haven’t expanded to Mexico

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Please don't shift this comment to other section but seeing how that other code is about to murder it's exposure by shunting it's annual international tournament onto a paywall, this is a perfect time to bang some heads together and get a regular international tournament on FTA.  

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

Please don't shift this comment to other section but seeing how that other code is about to murder it's exposure by shunting it's annual international tournament onto a paywall, this is a perfect time to bang some heads together and get a regular international tournament on FTA.  

Imagine in 2021 6 nations gone to SKY  and the replacement is the RL four nations on BBC afternoons over April/May with NZ, Aus, Tonga and us.... Maybe even stick Wales in for a five nations..... 

Never happen of course but just imagine..... 

 

 

Edited by Bedfordshire Bronco
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2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Imagine in 2021 6 nations gone to SKY  and the replacement is the RL four nations on BBC afternoons over April/May with NZ, Aus, Tonga and us.... Maybe even stick Wales in for a five nations..... 

Never happen of course but just imagine..... 

 

 

Hang on a sec.

We're playing internationals in April now, are we? Next year. The year of a World Cup?

There's a reason it's not going to happening and, for once, it's not because the RL authorities are wrong.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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We don't need to worry about 2021 with the World Cup but that becomes more important to show FTA Broadcasters, who will be looking at losing a month's worth of rugby content (who also lost November Internationals), that we have something to offer in 2022. A yearly comp between England, France, and the two Southern Hemisphere teams who don't get to play Australia and the Kiwis in the Oceanic Cup. Every November, 3 fixtures plus the final for one month of FTA Rugby League in UK and France.

In a time when TV Channels are crying out for content and coming off the 2021 World Cup it's the best time. I am not fussed about getting oceans of cash but if Union decide to shoot themselves not in the foot but in the head then we should be aiming to replace them.

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48 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

We don't need to worry about 2021 with the World Cup but that becomes more important to show FTA Broadcasters, who will be looking at losing a month's worth of rugby content (who also lost November Internationals), that we have something to offer in 2022. A yearly comp between England, France, and the two Southern Hemisphere teams who don't get to play Australia and the Kiwis in the Oceanic Cup. Every November, 3 fixtures plus the final for one month of FTA Rugby League in UK and France.

In a time when TV Channels are crying out for content and coming off the 2021 World Cup it's the best time. I am not fussed about getting oceans of cash but if Union decide to shoot themselves not in the foot but in the head then we should be aiming to replace them.

This is a good shout. We're not going to get an annual commitment to get Austrlaia or NZ over here every year unless we can offer more money than the NRL pays... that's a long time off. 

But we probably could get them over once every 4 years, and invite pacific island teams in the other years. Basically we need to give up on touring (except world cup) and instead host a tournment here every autumn and get commitments for 5 years so we can take that to a broadcaster. 

It wouldn't be a money spinner the first time round, but we need to cement its place in the calender, then it could grow in value. 

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On 01/03/2020 at 17:16, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why can’t we make any decent tv money from our international game. Our Four Nations tournament had big attendances and good ratings, surely tv companies should be shelling out cash to show the tournament.

Sky are reportedly bidding £300m to get coverage of the RU Six Nations, why can’t we even get say 10% of that figure for a RL Four Nations?

We should be selling TV rights in a four year cycle ending with the world cup. But to achieve this you need a four year schedule of confirmed international fixtures which this sport never has. So it cant make big money and that is the sports problem in a nutshell. It needs an international body with power to drive the sport globally but instead the NRL control most of the scheduling of Australia fixtures and the RFL here. Until they relinquish power we'll remain what we are, a regional competition both here and in Australia. No other sport hypes up a regional contest (state of origin) as the best it has to offer. Its all about being global and we should have grasped this 25 years ago. 

 

Rugby Union created "World Rugby"in 1999 and has a Sevens tour playing last week in Los Angeles, just had a World Cup in Japan and is making money from international rights with a combined effort. 

Edited by Bilko
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2 hours ago, Bilko said:

We should be selling TV rights in a four year cycle ending with the world cup. But to achieve this you need a four year schedule of confirmed international fixtures which this sport never has. So it cant make big money and that is the sports problem in a nutshell. It needs an international body with power to drive the sport globally but instead the NRL control most of the scheduling of Australia fixtures and the RFL here. Until they relinquish power we'll remain what we are, a regional competition both here and in Australia. No other sport hypes up a regional contest (state of origin) as the best it has to offer. Its all about being global and we should have grasped this 25 years ago. 

 

Rugby Union created "World Rugby"in 1999 and has a Sevens tour playing last week in Los Angeles, just had a World Cup in Japan and is making money from international rights with a combined effort. 

I agree entirely with this.

International RL and its growth seems entirely predicated on england beating Australia and suddenlyballnits problems are solved. In reality it will be a bit of a boost, not a game changer. 

The NRL arent going to relinquish that power until they are forced. They only way to force them is to create a viable NH international game that gets more money and more eyeballs. 

We need a proper competition including England and the other European nations every year, we need a proper pathway to professionalism for Irish, welsh, Scottish italian players, we need a 9s series to grow nations like spain, Jamaica, greece, the Balkan nations. 

We need dispensations and encouragement to get players from these nations playing pro RL, we need to be playing international RL regularly, repetitively.

International RL isnt just going to happen we need fo create it, even if we need to drag Australia along

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I agree entirely with this.

International RL and its growth seems entirely predicated on england beating Australia and suddenlyballnits problems are solved. In reality it will be a bit of a boost, not a game changer. 

The NRL arent going to relinquish that power until they are forced. They only way to force them is to create a viable NH international game that gets more money and more eyeballs. 

We need a proper competition including England and the other European nations every year, we need a proper pathway to professionalism for Irish, welsh, Scottish italian players, we need a 9s series to grow nations like spain, Jamaica, greece, the Balkan nations. 

We need dispensations and encouragement to get players from these nations playing pro RL, we need to be playing international RL regularly, repetitively.

International RL isnt just going to happen we need fo create it, even if we need to drag Australia along

Agree completely with this. I honestly can't see us getting regular annual tournaments organised against Pacific nations, because ultimately the NRL/ARL are their paymasters.

We should aim to become masters of our own destiny and create an annual European/NH comp. An annual mid-season Euro Championships would be competitive IMO, providing there was a big event (World cup, Confeds Cup, GB series) to act as a selection carrot that would encourage players to put their hands up to play in it. And it would be heavily reliant on heritage players (just as Tonga currently are), but that wouldn't bother me.

The BBC viewing figures for England v Scotland in the 4 Nations show that the wider public isn't as obsessed about England playing NZ and Australia as the rugby league public are. And it also shows that they aren't bothered about heritage players. It's this wider public that we need to attract in order to increase our audience and develop a more commercially attractive sport. 

Edited by RugbyLeagueGeek
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If Australia won’t play in a tournament why not replace them with an Australian invitational 13, like Tonga did last year. There are enough Australians playing in Super League to make up a decent team that’d probably win the competition still. Then we can guarantee the tournament would be on every year, Four Nations out of England, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga and France. 

If we can guarantee a Four Nations tournament will take place every year, with England in it, I’m sure within a few years it’d be bringing in big tv money.

Edited by Sir Kevin Sinfield

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2 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If Australia won’t play in a tournament why not replace them with an Australian invitational 13, like Tonga did last year. There are enough Australians playing in Super League to make up a decent team that’d probably win the competition still. Then we can guarantee the tournament would be on every year, Four Nations out of England, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga and France. 

If we can guarantee a Four Nations tournament will take place every year, with England in it, I’m sure within a few years it’d be bringing in big tv money.

Lot of good on here.  Happy to say if we cant get pacific team then three NH teams plus Aussie exiles would be a great shout.  Means we get a exciting competition and not a predictable procession.  Eng, France, Exiles and AN Other

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2 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If Australia won’t play in a tournament why not replace them with an Australian invitational 13, like Tonga did last year. There are enough Australians playing in Super League to make up a decent team that’d probably win the competition still. Then we can guarantee the tournament would be on every year, Four Nations out of England, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga and France. 

If we can guarantee a Four Nations tournament will take place every year, with England in it, I’m sure within a few years it’d be bringing in big tv money.

Too convoluted for me. Exiles didn't work and the public would know it wasn't a full international team, so that would immediately devalue the competition IMO. The Tonga situation is completely different, as that is the full Tonga team in all but name, whereas an Aussie Exiles team would be a very pale imitation of the full Australia team.

Playing full internationals against Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France et al is going to help those countries develop as well. I would much rather we did this than a convoluted Exiles type concept. But it would need that major Autumn tournament to act as a carrot to help get players to play for the other home nations.

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I worry that a four nations that England always spank the others would have less value but we all agree a four week international tournament post 2021 on fta is the way to go, representing a rare outbreak of consensus for this forum

Edited by ShropshireBull
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7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I worry that a four nations that England always spank the others would have less value but we all agree a four week international tournament post 2021 on fta is the way to go, representing a rare outbreak of concensus for this forum

Yeah I appreciate that is a concern, which is why there would have to be the carrot of a major tournament later that year in order to entice players to make themselves available (and this is where GB could prove valuable in non world cup or confederations cup years). If all the best heritage players put their hands up for Scotland, Ireland and Wales, coupled with England not being able to call on their NRL stars, then I reckon this would be a big leveller. Remember, Scotland in the 4 Nations gave England a competitive game. If we'd have had a Euro nations tournament last Summer, with people like McIllorum, LMS, Philbin, Amor, Singleton etc all making themselves available for Ireland in a bid to get selected for GB (let's not start the GB vs GB&I debate here...), then I'm sure they would have provided England with a competitive game. This would simultaneously boost the other home nations, providing more regular meaningful internationals, and would also help to provide legitimacy to the concept of a GB squad would hopefully be reflective of the best players in the Euro Nations tournament. It's a pipe dream unfortunately, because the short-sightedness of the SL means we won't get rid of the sodding loop fixtures.

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