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Scott Sinfield

Has the rugby league scoring system always been like this?

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11 hours ago, SL17 said:

I looked in to what a five-eighth was a good while ago as didn’t understand the terminology.. From what I learnt was it’s a zonal position of the stand off next to the centres. Basically they don’t have free reign.

Fullback,three quarters and half back so the stand off is called a 5/8 over there because he’s in between the half back and the three quarters. 

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in the old rules the mark could  be  called anywhere on the pitch anywhere you caught the ball funny thing although kicking for goal from a mark was abolished in 1922  can't find it anywhere where the actually calling for a mark was abolished  so in theory any body could still use it  ????

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Yes, the Australians describe a drop goal as a field goal and use five-eights and lock for stand off and loose forward.

But they don't say offload when they mean pass... they say pass.  A pass and an offload are two different things.

And they don't say touchdown when they mean try... they say try.

In fact, why don't you have a look at the clip of Brad Parker's try here https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2020/round-3/sea-eagles-v-bulldogs/ where the commentators enthuse about the pass Tom Trbojevic sending Parker over for a try... not an 'offload' sending Parker over for a 'touchdown'.

And the word 'bust' is usually used for breaking a tackle - as in 'tackle bust'... the term break is still used when breaking the line.  I have been involved in Rugby League for over 30 years and the first time I came across 'breakthrough' was when you posted it yesterday.

And the Australians use the word tackles to mean a tackle... they use 'hit' to represent a big tackle... I have heard 'big hit' in the UK game for as long as I can remember.

The point is those phrases (bust, offload, hit, etc) were never used over here in the past ... and you have just said that "bust" is used for "breaking a tackle" (hence a break through).  We might go around in different company but the term we always used was "he broke through a tackle" not "he bust a tackle".

Anyway, as I said in another post, I don't watch much Aussie RL ... and so apparently I must be after a badge of honour !

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1 minute ago, RL does what Sky says said:

The point is those phrases (bust, offload, hit, etc) were never used over here in the past ... and you have just said that "bust" is used for "breaking a tackle" (hence a break through).  We might go around in different company but the term we always used was "he broke through a tackle" not "he bust a tackle".

Anyway, as I said in another post, I don't watch much Aussie RL ... and so apparently I must be after a badge of honour !

Are we expected to still be talking about the game as we did in 1895. The game moves on and the terminology moves on as well. Unfortunately Australia have been the dominant country in the sport for the last 40+ years so most of any new terminology is likely to come from them. Personally I’d say a player made a break but broke a tackle so wouldn’t really use bust. As has been pointed out an offload is different from a pass so is useful terminology so I’ve definitely used that. Don’t think I’d ever use lock or 5/8

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1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

Are we expected to still be talking about the game as we did in 1895. The game moves on and the terminology moves on as well. Unfortunately Australia have been the dominant country in the sport for the last 40+ years so most of any new terminology is likely to come from them. Personally I’d say a player made a break but broke a tackle so wouldn’t really use bust. As has been pointed out an offload is different from a pass so is useful terminology so I’ve definitely used that. Don’t think I’d ever use lock or 5/8

If you read through my posts I haven't said it is wrong to use the terms just that they have come into the British way. However, prior to the last 40+ years you mention it was GB who were more dominant so alternatively it could be argued as to why the Aussies didn't use phrases such as "stand off" or "loose forward" ... even prior to WW2 they were using "five-eighth" and "lock".

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32 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Fullback,three quarters and half back so the stand off is called a 5/8 over there because he’s in between the half back and the three quarters. 

They're very mathematical in Australia.

So why is the loose forward called a lock and not a three eighth back ?

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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21 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

If you read through my posts I haven't said it is wrong to use the terms just that they have come into the British way. However, prior to the last 40+ years you mention it was GB who were more dominant so alternatively it could be argued as to why the Aussies didn't use phrases such as "stand off" or "loose forward" ... even prior to WW2 they were using "five-eighth" and "lock".

Don’t know about 5/8 but lock is used in RU so there’s a good chance that’s the original term and it’s us that’s moved away from it. 

Edited by bobbruce
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32 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

The point is those phrases (bust, offload, hit, etc) were never used over here in the past ... and you have just said that "bust" is used for "breaking a tackle" (hence a break through).  We might go around in different company but the term we always used was "he broke through a tackle" not "he bust a tackle".

Anyway, as I said in another post, I don't watch much Aussie RL ... and so apparently I must be after a badge of honour !

And my point is that you have got a lot of your terminology wrong.

Take a look at the NRL stats page

https://www.nrl.com/stats/

They don't say 'touchdown' they say 'try'

They don't say 'busts' (for line break) they say 'linebreaks' (they even say 'tackle breaks' - rather than ''tackle busts' which is used as well by some)

They don't say 'hits' they say 'tackles'

They don't use 'offload' when they mean pass because a pass and an offload are different things.

In other words, they say passing, tackling, tries and breaks... all the things you got yourself wound up about us not now saying because the Australians don't.... when they actually do.

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

And my point is that you have got a lot of your terminology wrong.

Take a look at the NRL stats page

https://www.nrl.com/stats/

They don't say 'touchdown' they say 'try'

They don't say 'busts' (for line break) they say 'linebreaks' (they even say 'tackle breaks' - rather than ''tackle busts' which is used as well by some)

They don't say 'hits' they say 'tackles'

They don't use 'offload' when they mean pass because a pass and an offload are different things.

In other words, they say passing, tackling, tries and breaks... all the things you got yourself wound up about us not now saying because the Australians don't.... when they actually do.

Why is it that when someone just makes a point that you don't agree with you say they are getting wound up ?

Someone earlier asked a question about field-goal as opposed to drop-goal and I gave an answer as to why the same process has two different terminologies.

If you have never heard an Aussie when interviewed on tv saying phrases which were not common over here years ago then that's fine .. but again, as with you saying in another thread that I must be after a badge of honour for not watching Aussie RL, don't start judging someone's charcater (wrongly) because they have a different view.

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6 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Someone earlier asked a question about field-goal as opposed to drop-goal and I gave an answer as to why the same process has two different terminologies.

And you added this bit... "

"but, as with anything else, because they do it then we have to follow !"

Can I ask you, how often do you hear the phrase field goal in the British game to mean drop goal?

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

And you added this bit... "

"but, as with anything else, because they do it then we have to follow !"

Can I ask you, how often do you hear the phrase field goal in the British game to mean drop goal?

Read an earlier answer of mine. I daren't say anything else in case you think I am getting more wound up.

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5 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Read an earlier answer of mine. I daren't say anything else in case you think I am getting more wound up.

Honestly, I'm just trying to clarify why you would say (about using the term field goal) "but, as with anything else, because they do it then we have to follow" when we obviously haven't followed them and still continue to use drop goal as we always did.

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Honestly, I'm just trying to clarify why you would say (about using the term field goal) "but, as with anything else, because they do it then we have to follow" when we obviously haven't followed them and still continue to use drop goal as we always did.

 

10 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Read an earlier answer of mine. I daren't say anything else in case you think I am getting more wound up.

 

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15 hours ago, Futtocks said:

In the early days of Rugby, a try was worth nothing unless it was "converted" into points with a successful kick. Hence the word conversion.

Hence the word 'try' at goal I believe? 

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23 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Hence the word 'try' at goal I believe? 

and the reason presumably the French use the term "Essai" for a try


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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One of the first games of RU I ever played (after playing U17) RL my team scored two penalty goals against the opposition's two tries i thought we'd lost.  i was in the bath after the game before I was told that we hadn't lost, we'd drawn, a penalty in Union in those days being 3 points and a try 3 points.  

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Some of these posts are redolent of the late eighties when a militant agitprop group called "The campaign for real Rugby League" was formed. They wanted to ban terms like "field goal" and "lock forward". Top of their list of demands was the deportation of anyone called Brad, Brett, Greg, or Grant.

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I seem to remember that at one time (19th century) soccer also had the fair catch and mark rule.  The one time you could handle the ball in the field of play. I believe Aussie rules still has the mark as does GAA


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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If anyone can find a video clip of a (proper) field goal/speculator being scored I'd love to see it. All I can offer is a like, but it will be an enthusiastic one.

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2 hours ago, Griff said:

They're very mathematical in Australia.

So why is the loose forward called a lock and not a three eighth back ?

They went metric before we did didn't they? Surely a stand off should be a 0.625 and a loose forward 0.375?

Edited by Ackroman
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41 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

They went metric before we did didn't they? Surely a stand off should be a 0.625 and a loose forward 0.375?

... and a winger / centre known as a "75%er"

and the player putting the ball in the pack is a "scrum 50%"

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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47 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I seem to remember that at one time (19th century) soccer also had the fair catch and mark rule.  The one time you could handle the ball in the field of play. I believe Aussie rules still has the mark as does GAA

Yes, Australian Rules still has a mark, but you need not be on the ground to claim it; indeed, it is the most spectacular feature of the game that marks are taken by very airborne players, often gaining purchase and time by 'riding' on the back of an opponent or team-mate.

No, unless things have changed since I played a little GAA, there is no mark in Gaelic Football.  In recent years, I have seen games on satellite TV, and do not recall marks being claimed.

That said, marks are allowed in the hybrid 'international rules' matches between the Aussie Rules footballers of Australia and the GAA footballers of Ireland.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

and the reason presumably the French use the term "Essai" for a try

Oui!

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