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New North American Competition?


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Is the Male Grooming magnate of Toronto behind this/a team? I will be honest, I can’t be bothered to go over a thread that will be some people calling this rubbish, others believing it to be ground breaking and a few genuine, well presented posts about the validity of this.

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38 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So ' offense ' as in blocking a tackler , and ' defence ' as in trying to push past a blocker ? 

Who actually catches and passes a ball ?

Backwards ?

While running 

In your first sentence, what you are describing is just the Offence and Defensive Linemen on a Gridiron team.

There is plenty of players who catch, pass and run with the ball. Quarterback, Running Backs, Tight Ends and Wide Receivers. Plenty on the Defensive side of the ball as well. Not only do the Linebackers, Safety’s and cornerbacks tackle, but they have to be adept at catching the ball through interceptions.

In High School and College Football there is much more lateral and ‘backwards’ passing than what you see at the top level. Your post about players just blocking and pushing past each other is a very limited appreciation of the game.

 

 

 

 

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Sorry if I've upset anybody , I sincerely hope this new venture is a succsses , but I really don't see how many if any gridiron players with no previous experience of some form of ' Rugby ' will have transferable skills , hence why I suggested many will have numbers of Pacific Islanders in their teams , so sorry if this opinion somehow makes me a ' lunatic ' or ' nay sayer ' , as it seems my opinion isn't wanted I'll join my other ' regulars ' and not comment further , although it seems even if people don't comment , they are criticised , it would seems we can't win no matter what we do 🤔

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I love this idea that loads gridiron players will be able to transition to playing RL 😂 Rugby union players find it hard enough, never mind guys who play in a sport with specialist positions and most of whom never touch the ball. 

This is supposed to be a pro league according to all the blurb. To get the skill sets needed they will need to import players. It will take 10+ years before these clubs will be producing decent home grown players. 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry if I've upset anybody , I sincerely hope this new venture is a succsses , but I really don't see how many if any gridiron players with no previous experience of some form of ' Rugby ' will have transferable skills , hence why I suggested many will have numbers of Pacific Islanders in their teams , so sorry if this opinion somehow makes me a ' lunatic ' or ' nay sayer ' , as it seems my opinion isn't wanted I'll join my other ' regulars ' and not comment further , although it seems even if people don't comment , they are criticised , it would seems we can't win no matter what we do 🤔

You certainly haven’t upset me. Your opinion is as valued as the next man. After all, isn’t that what forums are all about. Keep posting . I for one, enjoy your contributions 👍🏻

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30 minutes ago, burnleywelsh said:

In your first sentence, what you are describing is just the Offence and Defensive Linemen on a Gridiron team.

There is plenty of players who catch, pass and run with the ball. Quarterback, Running Backs, Tight Ends and Wide Receivers. Plenty on the Defensive side of the ball as well. Not only do the Linebackers, Safety’s and cornerbacks tackle, but they have to be adept at catching the ball through interceptions.

In High School and College Football there is much more lateral and ‘backwards’ passing than what you see at the top level. Your post about players just blocking and pushing past each other is a very limited appreciation of the game.

 

 

 

 

I stand corrected then , thank you for the reply 

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16 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I love this idea that loads gridiron players will be able to transition to playing RL 😂 Rugby union players find it hard enough, never mind guys who play in a sport with specialist positions and most of whom never touch the ball. 

This is supposed to be a pro league according to all the blurb. To get the skill sets needed they will need to import players. It will take 10+ years before these clubs will be producing decent home grown players. 

But there will be plenty of gridiron players in this league given the standard, along with foreign and domestic rugby players... just look at the MLR.

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14 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I love this idea that loads gridiron players will be able to transition to playing RL 😂 Rugby union players find it hard enough, never mind guys who play in a sport with specialist positions and most of whom never touch the ball. 

This is supposed to be a pro league according to all the blurb. To get the skill sets needed they will need to import players. It will take 10+ years before these clubs will be producing decent home grown players. 

Anyone can play RL, people take it up all the time. Yes certainly not to Super League or NRL standard, heck not even to Championship or League 1 standard. However bar a couple of people on here no one expects that. It also isn't what is needed and most on here seem perfectly aware that that standard certainly isn't going to be achieved overnight on funding of $300k. As long as everyone is at roughly the same level and games are competitive that is the main thing initially.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

. As long as everyone is at roughly the same level and games are competitive that is the main thing initially.

One more thing.  Big hits. Gotta have big hits 

Edited by TboneFromTO
Hit post wayyyyy to early
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9 minutes ago, Damien said:

Anyone can play RL, people take it up all the time. Yes certainly not to Super League or NRL standard, heck not even to Championship or League 1 standard. However bar a couple of people on here no one expects that. It also isn't what is needed and most on here seem perfectly aware that that standard certainly isn't going to be achieved overnight on funding of $300k. As long as everyone is at roughly the same level and games are competitive that is the main thing initially.

Oh yes I understand that but with the games being streamed there will need to a minimum standard on the pitch to drive subscriptions. This won't be possible if there are a load of new players still learning the game.

I think that a safer bet is imports rather than the tricky job of converting players from other sports. If I was a young lad here or in Australia, and had a chance of some time in the US with a bit of pocket money, then I'd definitely go for it. 

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21 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

But there will be plenty of gridiron players in this league given the standard, along with foreign and domestic rugby players... just look at the MLR.

Yes Im sure there will be some who can do, but it depends what the standard needs to be to attract spectators and drive streaming revenue 

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry if I've upset anybody , I sincerely hope this new venture is a succsses , but I really don't see how many if any gridiron players with no previous experience of some form of ' Rugby ' will have transferable skills , hence why I suggested many will have numbers of Pacific Islanders in their teams , so sorry if this opinion somehow makes me a ' lunatic ' or ' nay sayer ' , as it seems my opinion isn't wanted I'll join my other ' regulars ' and not comment further , although it seems even if people don't comment , they are criticised, it would seems we can't win no matter what we do 🤔

Naturally it will vary, some gridiron players (offensive linemen for sure) have no transferable skills worth speaking about, others such as punters and place kickers have rather few and others will have more.  Defensive players will have the most, they already have all the skills they need to play defense which they can adapt to playing on the defensive side of the ball in RL, and unlike the receivers and running backs they don't have any of the wrong instincts to succeed on the offensive side of the ball.  They're also used to catching and throwing a ball, that's something just about all boys here do in childhood.

Don't forget that the Wolfpack's triallists (who'd never played together before) who included guys like former NCAA linebacker Monté Gaddis who'd never played a single RL match before almost beat a team of players who all grew up with the game.  If @TheReaperis right that boosting their stamina and fitness is the easiest part of the transition for them, then plenty of gridiron players could become good RL players if the money available is enough to motivate them to take the challenge on.

Edited by Big Picture
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26 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Naturally it will vary, some gridiron players (offensive linemen for sure) have no transferable skills worth speaking about, others such as punters and place kickers have rather few and others will have more.  Defensive players will have the most, they already have all the skills they need to play defense which they can adapt to playing on the defensive side of the ball in RL, and unlike the receivers and running backs they don't have any of the wrong instincts to succeed on the offensive side of the ball.  They're also used to catching and throwing a ball, that's something just about all boys here do in childhood.

Don't forget that the Wolfpack's triallists (who'd never played together before) who included guys like former NCAA linebacker Monté Gaddis who'd never played a single RL match before almost beat a team of players who all grew up with the game.  If @TheReaperis right that boosting their stamina and fitness is the easiest part of the transition for them, then plenty of gridiron players could become good RL players if the money available is enough to motivate them to take the challenge on.

If you say so 

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2 hours ago, Cameron Highlander said:

We've experienced them over here (Toronto and environs), since late 2016.  Most of us are us are quite familiar with them by now, water off a duck's back and all that.  And yes it can be a laugh a minute.  Oddly, quite a few of the nay-sayer "regulars" are conspicuous by their absence on this thread.  Don't know why though.

The voice of reason is slowly eliminating them, over time.

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1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

This is supposed to be a pro league according to all the blurb. To get the skill sets needed they will need to import players. It will take 10+ years before these clubs will be producing decent home grown players. 

The fact that it is a pro league doesn`t mean they have to imitate other pro leagues. Or that their measure of success is to have teams that could hold their own against pro teams in other countries.

Their aim in the short term should be to deliver a product that`s good to watch. Far better to attempt that with their own players than give the impression that the whole thing is an imported sideshow.

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry if I've upset anybody , I sincerely hope this new venture is a succsses , but I really don't see how many if any gridiron players with no previous experience of some form of ' Rugby ' will have transferable skills , hence why I suggested many will have numbers of Pacific Islanders in their teams , so sorry if this opinion somehow makes me a ' lunatic ' or ' nay sayer ' , as it seems my opinion isn't wanted I'll join my other ' regulars ' and not comment further , although it seems even if people don't comment , they are criticised , it would seems we can't win no matter what we do 🤔

Come on you daft bug ger.

Don't get upset over a bit of banter.

You and I have so much in common we could have come from the same village!

i'm sorry if I've upset you.  

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5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

If you say so 

NCAA gridiron programs are very professional and they're very well funded, the athletic department at Big 10 member Ohio State (perennially among the top teams in the NCAA's top tier) has a budget of 180 million US$ for 2021, those players are pros in all but name.  They certainly have the level of dedication needed to take on a new athletic challenge if they decide it's worth doing and there are a lot of them.

Between the NCAA and NAIA approximately 893 colleges have gridiron teams which list 80-90 players each, which is about 80,000 or so players altogether.  Every year between 1/4 and 1/5 either graduate or exhaust their college eligibility and even if we only consider the defensive players there are about 8,000 of them in that category every year.  Only 109 defensive players were taken in the 2020 NFL draft, a drop in the bucket compared to the number who finished their college careers the season before.  Whatever the percentage with enough transferable skills to make the transition might be, it's going to yield a big number.

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Come on you daft bug ger.

Don't get upset over a bit of banter.

You and I have so much in common we could have come from the same village!

i'm sorry if I've upset you.  

Upset ? 😂

I avoided this thread for a lot of pages , but thought I'd offer an opinion after seeing suggestions that we'd see gridiron players being ' converted ' , we saw how well that went for Toronto , maybe at purely amateur ' playing in the park on Sunday morning ' level yes , but this is being built as a paying to play competition , teams will want to win , that will need players who know what they are doing , that knowledge comes from being familiar with the sport , not just being big and fast 

But as one biased against all forms of expansion , my opinion holds no weight , so best left here 😀

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4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

NCAA gridiron programs are very professional and they're very well funded, the athletic department at Big 10 member Ohio State (perennially among the top teams in the NCAA's top tier) has a budget of 180 million US$ for 2021, those players are pros in all but name.  They certainly have the level of dedication needed to take on a new athletic challenge if they decide it's worth doing and there are a lot of them.

Between the NCAA and NAIA approximately 893 colleges have gridiron teams which list 80-90 players each, which is about 80,000 or so players altogether.  Every year between 1/4 and 1/5 either graduate or exhaust their college eligibility and even if we only consider the defensive players there are about 8,000 of them in that category every year.  Only 109 defensive players were taken in the 2020 NFL draft, a drop in the bucket compared to the number who finished their college careers the season before.  Whatever the percentage with enough transferable skills to make the transition might be, it's going to yield a big number.

If you say so 

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18 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The fact that it is a pro league doesn`t mean they have to imitate other pro leagues. Or that their measure of success is to have teams that could hold their own against pro teams in other countries.

Their aim in the short term should be to deliver a product that`s good to watch. Far better to attempt that with their own players than give the impression that the whole thing is an imported sideshow.

I don't disagree but my point is to deliver a product that's good to watch there will need to be experienced players to ensure the skill levels are there. Heck I'll happily watch any level of Rugby but for a product to be polular it will need to deliver on the pitch 

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

NCAA gridiron programs are very professional and they're very well funded, the athletic department at Big 10 member Ohio State (perennially among the top teams in the NCAA's top tier) has a budget of 180 million US$ for 2021, those players are pros in all but name.  They certainly have the level of dedication needed to take on a new athletic challenge if they decide it's worth doing and there are a lot of them.

Between the NCAA and NAIA approximately 893 colleges have gridiron teams which list 80-90 players each, which is about 80,000 or so players altogether.  Every year between 1/4 and 1/5 either graduate or exhaust their college eligibility and even if we only consider the defensive players there are about 8,000 of them in that category every year.  Only 109 defensive players were taken in the 2020 NFL draft, a drop in the bucket compared to the number who finished their college careers the season before.  Whatever the percentage with enough transferable skills to make the transition might be, it's going to yield a big number.

That's been my thinking all along BP and I'm sure, if they can't make it in the NFL then the opportunity to earn some money at RL might be appealing to many of them.

I have no doubt (due to their athleticism) that with some one to one, pro coaching a lot of them could quickly adapt to the basics of Rugby League.

Sprinkle in some imports to populate the teams spines, and you have the makings of a decent team capable of entertaining new spectators across the pond. 

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After working with athletes from entirely different sports and giving some intensive coaching in the rules, tackling skills, passing practise, two on one, three on two attacking drills, details of defensive organisation, ruck plays, end of set kicking options etc, etc, etc, along with lots of video of Pro football players in action, I know that intelligent, capable athletes, with good hand to eye coordination can be brought to the level where they will be indistinguishable from people who have grown up in the game.

The most important factors in achieving this goal in a relatively short period of time, is the quality of the coaching they are exposed to and the time they can devote to it.

Whether they can then go on to compete, with players of similar ability largely depends on their desire to win

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2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

After working with athletes from entirely different sports and giving some intensive coaching in the rules, tackling skills, passing practise, two on one, three on two attacking drills, details of defensive organisation, ruck plays, end of set kicking options etc, etc, etc, along with lots of video of Pro football players in action, I know that intelligent, capable athletes, with good hand to eye coordination can be brought to the level where they will be indistinguishable from people who have grown up in the game.

The most important factors in achieving this goal in a relatively short period of time, is the quality of the coaching they are exposed to and the time they can devote to it.

Whether they can then go on to compete, with players of similar ability largely depends on their desire to win

Get yersel over to America then mate 

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24 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

That's been my thinking all along BP and I'm sure, if they can't make it in the NFL then the opportunity to earn some money at RL might be appealing to many of them.

I have no doubt (due to their athleticism) that with some one to one, pro coaching a lot of them could quickly adapt to the basics of Rugby League.

Sprinkle in some imports to populate the teams spines, and you have the makings of a decent team capable of entertaining new spectators across the pond. 

It would have to be more than just "some money" though and RL pays poorly compared to the sports they know.  If we divide the SL salary cap by 25, that yields just a smidge more than the average salary in the minor league CFL and we know that some SL teams can't afford to pay the full cap amount.

The guys who played in college on an athletic scholarship and trained in an environment with state of the art equipment, top quality coaching etc. provided by those big athletic budgets will likely have comparable expectations of what it means to be a pro.  The reported average salary of minor league players in the US is 51,155 US$ according to this report so pay levels will certainly be a factor in determining the calibre of athletes who'll be interested in coming over to RL.

Edited by Big Picture
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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Get yersel over to America then mate 

I'd give my eye teeth to be involved over there Gubrats.

I'm sure you can appreciate that quality coaching and time spent under the tutelage of said coach/coaches will improve the chances of newcomers improving in a short period of time?

Or do you really think it would have no bearing on the outcome?

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