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It’s used regularly in NRL and you see some great tries off it. Sadly the in goal areas are typically pitifully small over here, so players use the tactic far less

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12 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

It’s used regularly in NRL and you see some great tries off it. Sadly the in goal areas are typically pitifully small over here, so players use the tactic far less

Good point. Pet hate of mine the lack of space after the dead ball line also

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Not for me. Maybe the longer grubber threaded through defenders which sits up into the hands in-field has skill and aesthetic appeal, but the short range "drop it on the toe" affair into the in-goal has little of either. 

It often results in a scruffy, scrambling mess - part of the game when it happens, but it`s hardly a great RL "skill" to drop and kick the ball a few yards along the ground. We are a handling code.

Unsurprisingly, I rather like narrow in-goals that deter grubbers and encourage teams to keep the ball in hand and kicks that go to hand. Likewise the 20m zero tackle for a kick that runs dead.

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No I disagree , the grubber is another aspect of our game that makes us all think it is the greatest game even if often we never really think why we feel that way. 

Rugby League combines the passing and ball-handling skills of basketball, but has the added attraction of open field play, use of the feet and the extra physicality of the tackle, we share the open-field play of soccer with the innate human attraction of watching people run, think the popularity of running at the Olympics, while we lack the contest at the ball of soccer we do have the physicality mentioned above and the  hand passing game.

The grubber for me showcases another skill that overlaps with soccer, the short kicking game weaving through traffic, if you can, have a look at Cam Munster`s double kick grubber through traffic to score last week,  the skill of keeping the ball on the toe and at the same time controlling the weight of the contact before bending to pick the ball up cleanly and then scoring. Magic.

A little unrelated, Cedric Lee`s try in SOO last year, Munster`s chip and chase and regather with play dragged down near the line and then his beautiful long arcing `soccer` like kick to the far side of the field like a soccer players kick to an open wing, the basketball like leap and miss by the Maroons centre and then Cedric Lee collecting the ball juggling it then scoring. Three sports in one. Tries like that passage of play is why we all know innately it is the Greatest Game.

I`d love to see more of the short kicking game, grubbers and chip and chases, but teams are too scared of giving up possession these days. Unfortunately I think sometimes that League has become a game about retaining possession and minimising risk and the cost is that we don`t see those skills we grew up watching and made us love this game.

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8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

but it`s hardly a great RL "skill" to drop and kick the ball a few yards along the ground. We are a handling code.

I completely disagree.  The kicking in Rugby League is diverse and often the difference between good teams and great teams.  As I have said a few times, the kicking game is what has separated the Aussie game and ours over the years as their kicking game is often pin point and simply controls a game.

These skills are very difficult to execute which is why only the very best players can consistently win repeat sets and provide tactical advantage to their teams.

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8 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Not for me. Maybe the longer grubber threaded through defenders which sits up into the hands in-field has skill and aesthetic appeal, but the short range "drop it on the toe" affair into the in-goal has little of either. 

...

No.  Completely disagree.  More variety tbe better.   And our game is far too constrained with its short in goal lines.  It should be at least 10m. 

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The grubber kick can be a crucial piece for an attacking side. Especially if a team has someone who plays what's in front of them. At one time it was used too much resulting in a bobby covering behind the defensive line but in front of the full-back. Like I say it still has a purpose, if a team is moving up too quick or using an umbrella defence a kick behind and re-gather, makes defences think more about defending.

 

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13 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I completely disagree.  The kicking in Rugby League is diverse and often the difference between good teams and great teams.  As I have said a few times, the kicking game is what has separated the Aussie game and ours over the years as their kicking game is often pin point and simply controls a game.

These skills are very difficult to execute which is why only the very best players can consistently win repeat sets and provide tactical advantage to their teams.

You`ve responded to a very specific point about the short-range grubber into the in-goal, with a general defence of the totality of the kicking game. Most of which I agree with.

A couple of clarifications would have made my position clearer. -

I should have put "we are primarily a handling code".

And, the short-range grubbers I don`t like are those on 6th tackle, tight around the ruck, where the ball is just nudged forward into the in-goal as an each-way bet - either try or goal-line drop-out. There was an epidemic of these about 30 years ago, it was the routine predictable way to finish a set close to your opponents` goal-line. I don`t want to return to that. With the change to 20m zero tackle if it goes dead, and if the in-goals are fairly narrow, the risk/reward calibration is better balanced.

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19 hours ago, The Rocket said:

No I disagree 

if you can, have a look at Cam Munster`s double kick grubber through traffic to score last week

I`d love to see more of the short kicking game, grubbers and chip and chases, but teams are too scared of giving up possession these days. 

As with Dunbar, there`s far less disagreement than you`ve concluded.

The Cam Munster try was ad-lib. Quite different from the low-grade leaden type of grubber principally aimed at securing a repeat set that I`m unimpressed by. And the SOO try alluded to is as you say "a little unrelated".

In general, I enjoy kicks that are regathered, break the game up away from the goal-line, or if they are short-range involve a greater element of risk. 

For instance, Jarome Luai`s effort on Friday had more merit because it was early in the tackle count.

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It’s easier to challenge a kick in the air, no one is stopping grubbers, they’re just not a good attacking weapon unless it’s a half or back rower on a short side play. Watch Melbourne, they do it loads 

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46 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

there`s far less disagreement than you`ve concluded.

 I knew where you were coming from straight away, my response was more aimed at an accusation made against me several weeks ago (Another restructure thread) where when I said League was an innately attractive game to watch I was accused of hubris by a particular poster. At the time I didn`t defend myself because a response would have been unrelated to the topic at hand. If I had of responded it would have been similar to my above response highlighting the overlap that League has with many of the best bits of other codes as well as having many of our own unique attributes.

Several times in the past couple of weeks I have seen posts of your own where you have stated that one does not have to watch League at the highest level to witness entertaining football. This fits in with my own argument that it is the range of skills we see in any half-decent Rugby League competition that makes it such a good game. I have seen games at a Group level over here that has had chip-kicks, grubbers, sweeping back-line moves, off-loads in traffic, forward charges into the ruck and goals kicked from the side-line to win matches to boot.

So to sum up, my response was not so much aimed at you who is a great defender of variety in the game, rather getting something of my chest, you just happened to provide me with the opportunity to do it.

BTW, how about some of the passing skills in the Panthers/Raiders match, Creightons flick pass to his winger in the first half, Momorovsky`s  no- look bullet backward flick pass and Whitehead`s basketball type fingers up pass to Croker, I watched that pass a dozen times on the highlights, it looks great from front on, the beauty of the pass, the impact on Whithead after passing and Croker reaching behind himself to gather the ball whilst running at full tilt. Brilliant.

 

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15 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Several times in the past couple of weeks I have seen posts of your own where you have stated that one does not have to watch League at the highest level to witness entertaining football. This fits in with my own argument that it is the range of skills we see in any half-decent Rugby League competition that makes it such a good game. I have seen games at a Group level over here that has had chip-kicks, grubbers, sweeping back-line moves, off-loads in traffic, forward charges into the ruck and goals kicked from the side-line to win matches to boot.

Of all the football codes, RL affords the most scope to balance variety and fluidity within the context of an intelligent strategic structure. When players and teams don`t use the range of options available, and clam up inside the structure, the predominant reason is fear. 

Sometimes, when a team are being pressed close to their own goal-line, a skilful half-back could fairly easily execute a grubber through the line and regather. The reason they don`t is because that type of risk is perceived as unorthodox. Whereas the risks that result from making 20m in 5 tackles, though possibly greater, are less conspicuous. Players fear the individual inculpation and embarrassment that can result from a breach of orthodoxy that goes wrong.

Intriguing first try for the Cowboys today against the Tigers where in the first few minutes they shifted the ball wide to the winger from deep in their own half. Normally the fear of being taken over the touchline and conceding possession in dangerous territory deters this play, so the fact that a team who had lost their first four games risked it so early suggests the coach may have decided to throw off the shackles. When this happens, it`s a choice, born of circumstances, unaffected by rules and their applications.

The one area where indubitably it`s the rulebook inhibiting initiative rather than mindset is our old mate "back-to-one after a charge down". It was great to see Tariq Sims last week, but I was still left with the hollow regret that the current rules make such moments rarities.

Normal iniquitous service was resumed on Friday when the Warriors charged down a field-goal attempt, Manly regathered, back-to-one, took another shot and won the game. Clear lesson for everyone therefore is - "don`t play at the ball" - just move towards the kicker, get in his eyeline, and hope he misses. With the consequence that the game foregoes the kind of impromptu brilliance that could follow from the ricochet off a charge down attempt. 

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