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CC Semi finals and Women's CC Final at Elland Road


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14 hours ago, M j M said:

Don't really agree with this. It was designed to bring back what was missing from recent cup finals which has been fans of other clubs than the two finalists - fans who used to be everywhere on cup final day and seem to be relatively thin on the ground now.

I agree with the aim, but I don't think the 1895 Cup really addresses the underlying issues as to why the CC Final isn't able to attract neutrals in the way that it once did (whether those are current RL fans of other clubs, or not). If anything, it just puts the burden of the RFL's poor marketing of the event onto smaller clubs and part time players, because I can't imagine the bulk of 1895 Cup games are particularly money-spinning. 

After every CC Final crowd that falls below expectations, there will be someone on here mentioning the fact that pubs and clubs don't run trips like they used to as one reason why. That sort of pub and club culture ended more than 20 years ago, so it's not really relevant to why the CC Final struggles to sell out today. There are other, arguably more proactive and sustainable, ways to make the CC Final an event that people want to attend. 

Out of interest, how do clubs / fans of clubs in the 1895 club feel about it? My recollection was that a lot of clubs weren't happy about the number of midweek games that the competition involved. 

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20 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

Rugby League in Leeds, surely they could've come up with a better destination? Hillsborough, Turf Moor, Derby, Bolton.

Why does it have to be Leeds time & again?

Well, certainly not so that people can complain about it. 😀😀

“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
 Friedrich Nietzsche

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29 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

Rugby League in Leeds, surely they could've come up with a better destination? Hillsborough, Turf Moor, Derby, Bolton.

Why does it have to be Leeds time & again?

I cannot believe anyone would make a serious complaint about Leeds and then proffer the 4 alternatives you did as "better" 🤣

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36 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

Rugby League in Leeds, surely they could've come up with a better destination? Hillsborough, Turf Moor, Derby, Bolton.

Why does it have to be Leeds time & again?

Because they want to get the largest possible crowds? Crazy idea I know.

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17 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I cannot believe anyone would make a serious complaint about Leeds and then proffer the 4 alternatives you did as "better" 🤣

It was meant as an alternative. There are better stadia than Ellend Road if we wish to expand TGG.

M62ers should take note of Villa Park, Bristol, Hampden Park?

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17 hours ago, M j M said:

Because they want to get the largest possible crowds? Crazy idea I know.

With a capacity of less than 38000, the 14th largest in the Premiership, we could find somewhere bigger?

37792 according to Wikipedia 

3 matches in one day? Smacks a bit like Magic Weekend,  with tickets sold out, but stands empty because the teams fans only want to watch their team.

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On 09/12/2021 at 09:46, whatmichaelsays said:

I agree with the aim, but I don't think the 1895 Cup really addresses the underlying issues as to why the CC Final isn't able to attract neutrals in the way that it once did (whether those are current RL fans of other clubs, or not). If anything, it just puts the burden of the RFL's poor marketing of the event onto smaller clubs and part time players, because I can't imagine the bulk of 1895 Cup games are particularly money-spinning. 

After every CC Final crowd that falls below expectations, there will be someone on here mentioning the fact that pubs and clubs don't run trips like they used to as one reason why. That sort of pub and club culture ended more than 20 years ago, so it's not really relevant to why the CC Final struggles to sell out today. There are other, arguably more proactive and sustainable, ways to make the CC Final an event that people want to attend. 

Out of interest, how do clubs / fans of clubs in the 1895 club feel about it? My recollection was that a lot of clubs weren't happy about the number of midweek games that the competition involved. 

The pub and club trip did form a substantial number of attendees though, so it is absolutely a valid reason why CC Finals have less neutral attendees or even just people on a day out who know zero about RL. 

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24 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The pub and club trip did form a substantial number of attendees though, so it is absolutely a valid reason why CC Finals have less neutral attendees or even just people on a day out who know zero about RL. 

It may have done back in the day, but there becomes a point where behaviours that died off 20 years ago stop becoming an excuse.

That pub and club culture had died, those trips are gone and they aren't coming back - like VHS tapes or the Nokia 3210. The sport has had two decades to find a way to replace those attendees with new ones and, if the best that the sport can come up with in that time is "another cup competition" where smaller clubs are expected to ask part-time players to play even more, then I'd respectfully suggest that it isn't trying hard enough. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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39 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

It was meant as an alternative. There are better stadia than Ellend Road if we wish to expand TGG.

M62ers should take note of Villa Park, Bristol, Hampden Park?

 

17 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

I wasn't offering better, just alternative to Leeds.

Read your post, you said "better destination" then suggested Bolton, Derby, Burnley and what is currently the second best stadium in Sheffield 🤣 I'm all for alternatives but please come up with better suggestions next time!

I'm all for seeing games be taken to new/non heartland venues; you really do look foolish suggesting otherwise.

I think the nature of the Cup Semis is that its not really an expansion vehicle. The main target is fans of the 4 clubs plus a few RL anoraks from further afield. Leeds ticks all the boxes in that respect for every side that could appear in the semis. I think there are far better "expansion" tools than the cup semis frankly which would be better suited to Ashton Gate, Villa Park or other target areas.

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6 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It may have done back in the day, but there becomes a point where behaviours that died off 20 years ago stop becoming an excuse.

That pub and club culture had died, those trips are gone and they aren't coming back - like VHS tapes or the Nokia 3210. The sport has had two decades to find a way to replace those attendees with new ones and, if the best that the sport can come up with in that time is "another cup competition" where smaller clubs are expected to ask part-time players to play even more, then I'd respectfully suggest that it isn't trying hard enough. 

And I completely agree with you. I'm just pointing out that it was definitely a factor in crowds falling. I don't disagree that it was of it's time.

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7 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It may have done back in the day, but there becomes a point where behaviours that died off 20 years ago stop becoming an excuse.

That pub and club culture had died, those trips are gone and they aren't coming back - like VHS tapes or the Nokia 3210. The sport has had two decades to find a way to replace those attendees with new ones and, if the best that the sport can come up with in that time is "another cup competition" where smaller clubs are expected to ask part-time players to play even more, then I'd respectfully suggest that it isn't trying hard enough. 

One of the reasons it has died is because people generally have more money now and can choose to go themselves via a variety of transport. That is the demographic where RL has floundered continually to grow in further.

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20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

One of the reasons it has died is because people generally have more money now and can choose to go themselves via a variety of transport. That is the demographic where RL has floundered continually to grow in further.

That and a decline of pub and club culture generally. 

You could probably come up with a ton of reasons - the fact that many pubs and clubs have closed down, the "chain-ification" of pubs and the rise of PubCos running pubs that all look the same, more transient populations, the cost of drinking out - and maybe it's also a generational thing. Whilst I do like to go out to the local I don't see it as the "community hub" that my father probably sees his local. To me, it's just a nice place to get a drink and meet my mates away from the wife. If they ran a bus to the rugby, would I go on it? No. I'd do my own thing. 

The real question is whether the CC Final offers the sort of experience that the modern sports fan, whether they're a die-hard or a casual observer, expects from a major sporting event in 2021 - and if not, whether a 'warm up' event involving two likely part-time teams is the answer to meeting that expectation? I think the answer to both parts of that question is more than likely "no", and no amount of pub-run bus trips changes that. 

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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1 hour ago, CornwallRL said:

Why not play all matches in Leeds then?

I think you're being silly. In fact I'm starting to think you might not be legit.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Not every major game is or should be an expansion vehicle. That is dumb, as was your list of supposed alternatives. 

As has been said the cup semis are partisan affairs for club fans, not so much for neutrals (although the womens cup final may change that slightly). The vast majority of those fans live in the north of England and Elland Road is pretty much as central as it gets between our easternmost and westernmost northern clubs, is right off the motorway and is large enough to be quite ambitious to fill.

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1 hour ago, M j M said:

I think you're being silly. In fact I'm starting to think you might not be legit.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Not every major game is or should be an expansion vehicle. That is dumb, as was your list of supposed alternatives. 

As has been said the cup semis are partisan affairs for club fans, not so much for neutrals (although the womens cup final may change that slightly). The vast majority of those fans live in the north of England and Elland Road is pretty much as central as it gets between our easternmost and westernmost northern clubs, is right off the motorway and is large enough to be quite ambitious to fill.

As is Bury, Bolton (Horwich), Oldham, Stockport, Crewe, Stoke, Lincoln.

Why is it always Leeds? Oh, because the RFL is based there, and all the RL Journos who can't travel beyond the M62?

Silly me. Crash! That is the noise from the Leeds based journalism franchise 

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13 minutes ago, CornwallRL said:

As is Bury, Bolton (Horwich), Oldham, Stockport, Crewe, Stoke, Lincoln.

Why is it always Leeds? Oh, because the RFL is based there, and all the RL Journos who can't travel beyond the M62?

Silly me. Crash! That is the noise from the Leeds based journalism franchise 

Now you're just trolling 🤣

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Now you're just trolling 🤣

If I had suggested playing these games in Lancashire, G M/cr, or Msyside, I would not be accused.

Try Coventry? Leicester? Worcester? Or even York!

2/3rds empty Elland Rd is a hollow sound. I have been there for a New Hunslet match, when they were based there.

Womens cup final, & 2x semis?

Are we asking security to lock everyone in for the afternoon?

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