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RLWC 2025 France


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The Stade Municipal in Toulouse would I imagine be looked  at. The 1954 WC semi final there  pulled the biggest crowd  in the games history 37,471. That I think included  standing at that time. The recent up grade 2016 saw the capacity down to 33,150 - all seating.If they filled it without French involvement it would be a major feat I reckon.

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"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

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One thing that we should consider carefully is how well the french will do in all 3 competitions - a competing France women’s side playing alongside the men’s competition in the later stages as a double header could draw in the crowds. 

It won’t be easy, but they will be building on great work from 2013 and 2021/2, and have time and inclination to make the local bases work for us. My oh my, there is a lot to like.

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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

One thing that we should consider carefully is how well the french will do in all 3 competitions - a competing France women’s side playing alongside the men’s competition in the later stages as a double header could draw in the crowds. 

Really good point and would make sense to double or triple up to attract French crowds.

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52 minutes ago, Damien said:

The RL obsession with double and triple headers never ceases to amaze me. If anything smacks of small time it's this.

Normally, I would agree, I was simply thinking about whether the France women’s games could act as a boost for other events. 

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I've had a 'maison secondaire' in Burgundy for over 30 years and operate a small business from there but the decision of Le Creusot and Autun ( 10km & 15km from me respectively) to bid for matches is intriguing. Neither town has stadiums or rugby heritage to justify this. 

However, if there is a WC legacy then Bourgogne XIii would be a delightful link between Paris and Lyon

Edited by Hemel Rugby League
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3 hours ago, Damien said:

The RL obsession with double and triple headers never ceases to amaze me. If anything smacks of small time it's this.

I disagree with you on this. It depends on the sport, local culture individual circumstances. 
Trying to sell 30K final tickets mainly to fans who know the hosts (men’s) won’t make it is going to be hard. Having the women’s final as an additional incentive will likely help. As well as this you also in one easy swoop put the women’s final on the same footing as a the mens and add real prestige for the players - rather than playing the women’s final in a smaller venue. There are also potential reduced logistical and TV set-up costs etc fir a sport not exactly flush with cash.

We are not football - or even Union - where 30k will turn up for even group games in their men’s world cups. And we are not big enough to have totally separate world cups (yet). We need to do what works best for us.

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13 hours ago, Scubby said:

That's like saying London and Yorkshire are governments and not local. State support is local support to ensure the local area (e.g. Queensland or ACT) benefits. It is not government support.

Firstly they are called State Governments and satisfy all the definitions of what a government is, so I don't know how you can claim that they are not governments.

Secondly, where does your definition of 'local area' end? All governments, from local to federal look after 'local' interests.  

The local equivalent to the London Assembly in Australia would be the 32 local governments of Sydney. Whilst they can invest in major sporting events (although the City of Melbourne is a major partner of the Australian Open), they generally don't and they never do it as a collection. 

Now when it comes to event sponsorship in Australia, it is always driven from the states.  The Federal Government cannot bid for an event and it cannot place an event in Australia. It can support State bids, it can market secured events abroad through Tourism Australia, it can provide visa and internal travel support and it can even be used as a proxy for a bid, but that will always be initiated from the states first.

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1 hour ago, Hemel Rugby League said:

I've had a 'maison secondaire' in Burgundy for over 30 years and operate a small business from there but the decision of Le Creusot and Autun ( 10km & 15km from me respectively) to bid for matches is intriguing. Neither town has stadiums or rugby heritage to justify this. 

However, if there is a WC legacy then Bourgogne XIii would be a delightful link between Paris and Lyon

Do bare in mind that list includes all places that are bidding for games in all 4 world cups and just to be training bases as well so some of the smaller places without any substantial stadia could just be bidding to host a team and with all the teams across all the world cups that is quite a lot of teams. 

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27 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

I disagree with you on this. It depends on the sport, local culture individual circumstances. 
Trying to sell 30K final tickets mainly to fans who know the hosts (men’s) won’t make it is going to be hard. Having the women’s final as an additional incentive will likely help. As well as this you also in one easy swoop put the women’s final on the same footing as a the mens and add real prestige for the players - rather than playing the women’s final in a smaller venue. There are also potential reduced logistical and TV set-up costs etc fir a sport not exactly flush with cash.

We are not football - or even Union - where 30k will turn up for even group games in their men’s world cups. And we are not big enough to have totally separate world cups (yet). We need to do what works best for us.

I totally agree, if there's one obsession in RL I don't understand personally, it is this constant comparing of our sport to others and the way they function and how we should be doing what those sports do. Every sport functions in its own way. We do what we do, football, union, cricket, tiddlywinks do what they do and that's fine. 

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3 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I totally agree, if there's one obsession in RL I don't understand personally, it is this constant comparing of our sport to others and the way they function and how we should be doing what those sports do. Every sport functions in its own way. We do what we do, football, union, cricket, tiddlywinks do what they do and that's fine. 

What a weird post when no one did that until you and the post you just quoted. That kind of defeats your entire point.

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36 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

I disagree with you on this. It depends on the sport, local culture individual circumstances. 
Trying to sell 30K final tickets mainly to fans who know the hosts (men’s) won’t make it is going to be hard. Having the women’s final as an additional incentive will likely help. As well as this you also in one easy swoop put the women’s final on the same footing as a the mens and add real prestige for the players - rather than playing the women’s final in a smaller venue. There are also potential reduced logistical and TV set-up costs etc fir a sport not exactly flush with cash.

We are not football - or even Union - where 30k will turn up for even group games in their men’s world cups. And we are not big enough to have totally separate world cups (yet). We need to do what works best for us.

Or you can treat the women's competition as an event in its own right and be confident in your abilities to sell an event. The women's competition should not be an add on to sell a few more tickets for the men's matches.

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28 minutes ago, Damien said:

What a weird post when no one did that until you and the post you just quoted. That kind of defeats your entire point.

You said double and triple headers smack of small-time. How are you defining small-time? To define small-time you are comparing to something that you perceive to be bigger and more successful which in talking about sport it is reasonable to presume the comparison is with bigger sports. Simple logic, something cannot be small-time without something else being big-time, everything has an opposite. 

I am saying that that comparison does not need to be made because different sports have different features which define them and shouldn't be compared. A feature of RL is double and triple header events. This is not a feature of football or union particularly. Just because they do not have these events does not mean it makes them superior, they just choose not to have these events and we do. That does not make RL inferior. Football have competitions that are decided by league position, we have them decided by a grand final. This does not make either sport superior to the other, it is just the way different sports do things because they are different. 

Sorry if you don't understand the language you are using and the underlying meanings of that language in your point but not my fault. Bedtime now. 

Edited by The Hallucinating Goose
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18 minutes ago, Damien said:

Or you can treat the women's competition as an event in its own right and be confident in your abilities to sell an event. The women's competition should not be an add on to sell a few more tickets for the men's matches.

I didn’t say it was an ‘add on’ to the men’s matches - only that in a way you are offering an extra incentive to all parties eg two games instead of one. And as I said you are also increasing the prestige of the women’s final by playing at a big ground.

In terms of selling the women’s comp on its own and being confident in that, well there is a long way to go there. Football has only recently brought the women’s cup final to Wembley as a single entity and that is our national game.

We are nowhere near that and it will be intriguing to see how the women’s matches at this RLWC go in terms of crowds. Interesting that there - and with wheelchair games - there are plenty of double headers.

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19 hours ago, Scubby said:

That's like saying London and Yorkshire are governments and not local. State support is local support to ensure the local area (e.g. Queensland or ACT) benefits. It is not government support.

No it’s not. We have local government below state governments. 

States individually budget and fund hospitals, education, transport etc. Similar to the US, it’s like a number of countries, within a country.

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11 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

You said double and triple headers smack of small-time. How are you defining small-time? To define small-time you are comparing to something that you perceive to be bigger and more successful which in talking about sport it is reasonable to presume the comparison is with bigger sports. Simple logic, something cannot be small-time without something else being big-time, everything has an opposite. 

I am saying that that comparison does not need to be made because different sports have different features which define them and shouldn't be compared. A feature of RL is double and triple header events. This is not a feature of football or union particularly. Just because they do not have these events does not mean it makes them superior, they just choose not to have these events and we do. That does not make RL inferior. Football have competitions that are decided by league position, we have them decided by a grand final. This does not make either sport superior to the other, it is just the way different sports do things because they are different. 

Sorry if you don't understand the language you are using and the underlying meanings of that language in your point but not my fault. Bedtime now. 

What an even weirder post to try and justify your strawman rant where you moaned about comparisons with other sports. Comparisons no one had made until you and swan did and comparisons you have now made extensively in both your posts. You now seem intent on bringing anything you can think of into it, grand finals really?, for no other reason than just to try and back up your initial, and false, petulant whinge.

I have yet to meet anyone who goes to an event they wouldn't have gone to anyway just because it's a double header. Very few even bother with the minor match or match they aren't interested in, see Australia v Fiji in the 2013 semi final, and we are usually faced with the spectacle of a match in an empty ground. I don't think anything looks worse than seeing a huge empty stadium for a semi final. This is exasperated when it comes to a World Cup played in late Autumn and sitting there for 4 hours in very cold temperatures. Nearly every double header I have seen in RL is for the wrong reasons, to save costs, not to create some kind of huge event. In RL they are used for the wrong reasons.

If you must compare to other sports double headers are absolutely used and have arguably been used more successfully in sports like RU than RL too. The London RU double headers have been more successful than anything I can recall in RL. If I was to compare RL to other sports in its use of double headers it wouldn't be particularly flattering.

You like double headers, that's fine. I don't and think they are small time. That view is equally as valid to yours. I'm very much ambivalent about them taking place in 2025. I just don't think they will particularly add anything and in RL they are just seen as a very lazy solution. I see them very much in the same category as cut price tickets and discounts when it comes to cheapening an event. Sell an event in its own right rather than lumping in extras that few are interested in anyway. That view is equally as valid as yours as much as you don't like it.

Edited by Damien
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26 minutes ago, Damien said:

What an even weirder post to try and justify your strawman rant where you moaned about comparisons with other sports. Comparisons no one had made until you and swan did and comparisons you have now made extensively in both your posts. You now seem intent on bringing anything you can think of into it, grand finals really?, for no other reason than just to try and back up your initial, and false, petulant whinge.

I have yet to meet anyone who goes to an event they wouldn't have gone to anyway just because it's a double header. Very few even bother with the minor match or match they aren't interested in, see Australia v Fiji in the 2013 semi final, and we are usually faced with the spectacle of a match in an empty ground. I don't think anything looks worse than seeing a huge empty stadium for a semi final. This is exasperated when it comes to a World Cup played in late Autumn and sitting there for 4 hours in very cold temperatures. Nearly every double header I have seen in RL is for the wrong reasons, to save costs, not to create some kind of huge event. In RL they are used for the wrong reasons.

If you must compare to other sports double headers are absolutely used and have arguably been used more successfully in sports like RU than RL too. The London RU double headers have been more successful than anything I can recall in RL. If I was to compare RL to other sports in its use of double headers it wouldn't be particularly flattering.

You like double headers, that's fine. I don't and think they are small time. That view is equally as valid to yours. I'm very much ambivalent about them taking place in 2025. I just don't think they will particularly add anything and in RL they are just seen as a very lazy solution. I see them very much in the same category as cut price tickets and discounts when it comes to cheapening an event. Sell an event in its own right rather than lumping in extras that few are interested in anyway. That view is equally as valid as yours as much as you don't like it.

I'm not gonna bother keeping this going cos it's seems you've missed the point I was making and perhaps I've misunderstood yours as well. There's just some crossed wires somewhere. I apologise for the "rant" last night. 

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10 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'm not gonna bother keeping this going cos it's seems you've missed the point I was making and perhaps I've misunderstood yours as well. There's just some crossed wires somewhere. I apologise for the "rant" last night. 

No worries, lets leave it at that.

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Meanwhile, for those of us who have been exasperated by the French administration’s seeming inability to get its act together, I should say how impressed I am by the current people in charge. One massive upside of this level of ambition is that is gives the whole game a single aim - make the World Cup in France be the greatest event it can be. Chapeau to Luc.

I am tempted to brush up my Franglais. I would love to be able to hold a basic conversation with a proper treiziste - my most recent attempt ended with my “explaining” to a bar man that my friend had lost his wallet tomorrow. Which only works in an episode of Doctor Who. There is such a beautifully sad story around French rugby league that deserves to be re told - and now we have a chance to re write the ending.

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17 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Meanwhile, for those of us who have been exasperated by the French administration’s seeming inability to get its act together, I should say how impressed I am by the current people in charge. One massive upside of this level of ambition is that is gives the whole game a single aim - make the World Cup in France be the greatest event it can be. Chapeau to Luc.

I am tempted to brush up my Franglais. I would love to be able to hold a basic conversation with a proper treiziste - my most recent attempt ended with my “explaining” to a bar man that my friend had lost his wallet tomorrow. Which only works in an episode of Doctor Who. There is such a beautifully sad story around French rugby league that deserves to be re told - and now we have a chance to re write the ending.

I have said it time and again since he took over but Lacoste has been a breath of fresh air. Yes some of the ducks may have aligned, like Toulouse in Super League, but he has done and said all the right things since taking over and seems intent on elevating the French game.

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20 hours ago, Damien said:

The RL obsession with double and triple headers never ceases to amaze me. If anything smacks of small time it's this.

It's quite amazing that they don't seem to understand just how small time double headers are.

 

15 hours ago, Damien said:

Or you can treat the women's competition as an event in its own right and be confident in your abilities to sell an event. The women's competition should not be an add on to sell a few more tickets for the men's matches.

Either that or don't bother with a womens' competition.

 

15 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

You said double and triple headers smack of small-time. How are you defining small-time? To define small-time you are comparing to something that you perceive to be bigger and more successful which in talking about sport it is reasonable to presume the comparison is with bigger sports. Simple logic, something cannot be small-time without something else being big-time, everything has an opposite. 

I am saying that that comparison does not need to be made because different sports have different features which define them and shouldn't be compared. A feature of RL is double and triple header events. This is not a feature of football or union particularly. Just because they do not have these events does not mean it makes them superior, they just choose not to have these events and we do. That does not make RL inferior. Football have competitions that are decided by league position, we have them decided by a grand final. This does not make either sport superior to the other, it is just the way different sports do things because they are different. 

Sorry if you don't understand the language you are using and the underlying meanings of that language in your point but not my fault. Bedtime now. 

Baseball excepted where they only exist because of their unique requirement to fit 160+ matches into a season, double headers aren't a feature of any major sport.  So yes, they mark out RL as a small time minor sport and only serve to confirm the negative views of the sport which a good few outsiders have.

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4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It's quite amazing that they don't seem to understand just how small time double headers are.

We’re not going to agree on this which is fair enough - I would add that we are a comparatively ‘small time’ sport regardless of double headers.

We want/expect to play big games in big stadiums but seldom sell them out eg last years’ SL final and World Cup 2013 finals at Old Trafford. We do not have that latent audience to sell out a big occasion regardless of who is competing.

So what do you practically do? You get Wales to play Italy at Millenium Stadium in Cardiff in 2013 for a prestige opener and show that we are not ‘small time’. But we know that won’t draw a massive crowd so you have a double header with Eng/Aus. Not ideal but without that the Wales game would be in the Arms Park over the road making us look even more ‘small time’.

Same goes for women’s game… play the World Cup final as a double header at Old Trafford or play it separately at the HJ in Warrington instead. Which option makes us look more small time? I know which one I’d prefer.

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