JJB and Jon Wilkin join Sky commentary team for 2022

[hunsletgreenandgold]

24 minutes ago, The storm said:

Ive listened to JJB many times and he is thoughtful, articulate, intelligent and inspiring

I agree with that.....when I can actually understand what he's said. This isn't people saying they don't want to hear JJB because of his Yorkshire/Leeds accent, merely they want one they can understand. I said earlier in this thread, or another, if he slows down he'll do fine but when he speaks fast it's a challenge for many. 

[RigbyLuger]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Your first line is an issue though, I don't know any other pundit who has that challenge with their actual speaking voice. Sure, plenty improve, so I get the point you're making, but people don't generally start from his level. 

Peacock.

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, The storm said:

Its hardly lies is it 

Ive listened to JJB many times and he is thoughtful, articulate, intelligent and inspiring 

I should have clarified, that is my view and i have no issue comprehending what he is saying 

Well yes saying everyone else can when many have already said they can't on the same thread is lies. Strawman arguments about Eton just make you look daft when its quite clear that accent isn't the issue. People have no complaints about Danny McGuire or Ash Golding.

If someone comes across poorly you can't blame the viewer, the game has enough problems attracting fans as it is. I daresay that many people on these forums will find JJB easier to understand than the vast majority of the country too. The viewer shouldn't have to struggle.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Peacock.

I did think of him as I typed, but whilst Peacocks voice isn't easy on the ear, I do think he speaks more clearly, certainly to my ear he does. 

I'm not aware of this kind of thing in other sports I watch. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

.

 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

On 02/02/2022 at 11:46, dealwithit said:

JJB is a great bloke. But I cannot understand him. 

 

On 02/02/2022 at 13:20, Red Willow said:

JJB sounds like he has a mouth  full of cotton wool, it is distracting it also reinforces the "Northern Game for Northern People" 

 

On 02/02/2022 at 13:47, Damien said:

How he sounds is of prime importance when it comes to TV and perceptions. If people struggle to understand him then it really doesn't matter how intelligent he is.

 

23 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I can understand him but sometimes he speaks far too quickly.

I admired him as a player but think their are better presenters.

 

23 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I think that's it, it's the speed he speaks that makes even fellow Yorkshire folk struggle. If he slows it down a bit he'll be spot on. 

JJB speaks for a long period of time here, ignoring the content of what he is saying, can any of you claiming not to understand what he says point out a part of the video where you can’t understand what he’s saying? If you could give the minutes and seconds into the video so we that can understand English and hence JJB can try to understand your point.

 

 

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I did think of him as I typed, but whilst Peacocks voice isn't easy on the ear, I do think he speaks more clearly, certainly to my ear he does. 

I'm not aware of this kind of thing in other sports I watch. 

Yes I never notice it at all in other sports. I can watch Football and there can be someone Graeme Souness, Roy Keane, Gary Neville or whoever and they are all good communicators and speak clearly. Again I think people are conflating accent with being a good communicator. I don't think many of our pundits would get close to doing similar in other sports because their communication and presentation skills just aren't up to it.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes I never notice it at all in other sports. I can watch Football and there can be someone Graeme Souness, Roy Keane, Gary Neville or whoever and they are all good communicators and speak clearly. Again I think people are conflating accent with being a good communicator. I don't think any of our pundits would get close to doing similar in other sports because there communication and presentation skills just aren't up to it.

Do we think that media training from earlier on in their careers and then possibly further training when moving into punditry has helped that? Jamie Redknapp always strikes me as a guy who's very good at opening up the discussion (almost presenter like) and I'm wondering how much of that is natural or nurtured talent? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Do we think that media training from earlier on in their careers and then possibly further training when moving into punditry has helped that? Jamie Redknapp always strikes me as a guy who's very good at opening up the discussion (almost presenter like) and I'm wondering how much of that is natural or nurtured talent? 

You can be certain past players presenting Premier League football are given media training. I believe the Premier League tv deal was £4800M, compared to Super Leagues £25M. When you are spending £4800M you are going to leave no stone unturned to make the product the best it can be. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

17 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

 

 

 

JJB speaks for a long period of time here, ignoring the content of what he is saying, can any of you claiming not to understand what he says point out a part of the video where you can’t understand what he’s saying? If you could give the minutes and seconds into the video so we that can understand English and hence JJB can try to understand your point.

 

 

3:30-4:00 is not easy on the ears at several points. Again, it's not that it's completely inaudible but you really have to listen and that's what I think we mean. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

3:30-4:00 is not easy on the ears at several points. Again, it's not that it's completely inaudible but you really have to listen and that's what I think we mean. 

I can understand him fine between those times, there seems to be poor audio quality, but even with that I have no problem hearing and understanding. 

I think personally when people are saying they can’t understand him, they can understand him, but don’t like the way he talks and sounds. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

12 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I can understand him fine between those times, there seems to be poor audio quality, but even with that I have no problem hearing and understanding. 

I think personally when people are saying they can’t understand him, they can understand him, but don’t like the way he talks and sounds. 

I think if enough people tell you they struggle to understand him you should probably believe them. What agenda would people have otherwise? JJB is widely liked by all fans because of the way he played the game, so it's not personal. 

[Lowdesert]

25 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

 

 

 

JJB speaks for a long period of time here, ignoring the content of what he is saying, can any of you claiming not to understand what he says point out a part of the video where you can’t understand what he’s saying? If you could give the minutes and seconds into the video so we that can understand English and hence JJB can try to understand your point.

 

 

Where have I said I cannot understand him?

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Do we think that media training from earlier on in their careers and then possibly further training when moving into punditry has helped that? Jamie Redknapp always strikes me as a guy who's very good at opening up the discussion (almost presenter like) and I'm wondering how much of that is natural or nurtured talent? 

I do think a lot of clubs do it, certainly the bigger ones. I know Wigan did/do. I think there are plenty of factors involved such as background, confidence and education. Its not an easy thing to do when you aren't used to doing it and have never done anything like that. I certainly struggled for a long time when I went to University even just doing presentations and even now don't enjoy that kind of thing in work and am still conscious in meetings with people from all over. I can imagine doing that on TV is far worse.

[Dave T]

33 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

 

 

 

JJB speaks for a long period of time here, ignoring the content of what he is saying, can any of you claiming not to understand what he says point out a part of the video where you can’t understand what he’s saying? If you could give the minutes and seconds into the video so we that can understand English and hence JJB can try to understand your point.

 

 

You are clearly defensive about this, but the point isn't necessarily that you can't decipher what he is saying, it is that to understand him some people have to really concentrate - and that isn't something I have to do with any other pundit in any other sport. Even on this video, I listened to a section with my eyes closed and there is a lot of it that is difficult to my ear. Some of that is accent, but it is mainly the way he speaks. It is often muffled and it isn't natural to my ear at all. 

So, I may be able to make out the words, but I have to really listen hard and that isn't really what should have to happen when listening to a sports pundit. 

[Lowdesert]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You are clearly defensive about this, but the point isn't necessarily that you can't decipher what he is saying, it is that to understand him some people have to really concentrate - and that isn't something I have to do with any other pundit in any other sport. Even on this video, I listened to a section with my eyes closed and there is a lot of it that is difficult to my ear. Some of that is accent, but it is mainly the way he speaks. It is often muffled and it isn't natural to my ear at all. 

So, I may be able to make out the words, but I have to really listen hard and that isn't really what should have to happen when listening to a sports pundit. 

Clarity is the key and essential element for a presenter.  Ok, a guest presenter if different but a regular presenter has to be clear. 

My personal preference is a neutral accent.  IMO that is what we need as a game and it takes away a little more criticism that our game is strictly northern based, northern people etc etc.

For what its worth I thought JJB was an outstanding 2nd row and impact player for Leeds and England.  The type every team needs and few have of his level.

 

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Yes I never notice it at all in other sports. I can watch Football and there can be someone Graeme Souness, Roy Keane, Gary Neville or whoever and they are all good communicators and speak clearly. Again I think people are conflating accent with being a good communicator. I don't think many of our pundits would get close to doing similar in other sports because their communication and presentation skills just aren't up to it.

I have to say I don't agree with this.  I see absolutely nothing in the way that  Graeme Souness or Roy Keane speak that I can't see in the likes of Jon Wilkin or Jamie Peacock, in fact I would say the latter two are more engaging and likeable than Souness and Keane and are equally as credible when it comes to their level of insight into their respective sports.

[RigbyLuger]

If you are wanting to work in the media after playing, you would work on your skills as you would as a player. Some never seem to get better. but still get employed.

[The storm]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Well yes saying everyone else can when many have already said they can't on the same thread is lies. Strawman arguments about Eton just make you look daft when its quite clear that accent isn't the issue. People have no complaints about Danny McGuire or Ash Golding.

If someone comes across poorly you can't blame the viewer, the game has enough problems attracting fans as it is. I daresay that many people on these forums will find JJB easier to understand than the vast majority of the country too. The viewer shouldn't have to struggle.

But JJB does nt come across poorly. 

Not in any way 

I fully understand what he says 

But you have clarified that some dont

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I have to say I don't agree with this.  I see absolutely nothing in the way that  Graeme Souness or Roy Keane speak that I can't see in the likes of Jon Wilkin or Jamie Peacock, in fact I would say the latter two are more engaging and likeable than Souness and Keane and are equally as credible when it comes to their level of insight into their respective sports.

I think you missed the point to be honest and this was in reply to previous posts and was more around strong accents not equating to poor communication skills, hence those two examples. If I was picking the best Football pundits I wouldn't have chosen them. I don't think Peacock is that good a communicator either but I'm happy to agree to disagree on that.

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, The storm said:

But JJB does nt come across poorly. 

Not in any way 

I fully understand what he says 

But you have clarified that some dont

I disagree. If someone cant be understood then they come across poorly. Happy to leave it at that.

[Dunbar]

21 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think you missed the point to be honest and this was in reply to previous posts and was more around strong accents not equating to poor communication skills, hence those two examples. If I was picking the best Football pundits I wouldn't have chosen them. I don't think Peacock is that good a communicator either but I'm happy to agree to disagree on that.

I don't think I have missed the point.  You said that you "don't think many of our pundits would get close to doing similar in other sports because their communication and presentation skills just aren't up to it."

And I disagreed with that.

[The storm]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I disagree. If someone cant be understood then they come across poorly. Happy to leave it at that.

Well i honestly dont struggle with anything the man says

He is very articulate 

But if you cant understand regional accents, fine 

[Dave T]

50 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I have to say I don't agree with this.  I see absolutely nothing in the way that  Graeme Souness or Roy Keane speak that I can't see in the likes of Jon Wilkin or Jamie Peacock, in fact I would say the latter two are more engaging and likeable than Souness and Keane and are equally as credible when it comes to their level of insight into their respective sports.

I think Souness and Keane have strong accents but are clear and articulate. I also think they are immensely watchable and credible. 

I like Peacock, less so Wilkin, but I can understand why he gets the gig. 

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think Souness and Keane have strong accents but are clear and articulate. I also think they are immensely watchable and credible. 

I like Peacock, less so Wilkin, but I can understand why he gets the gig. 

Of course, these things are entirely subjective.  I have nothing against either Keane or Souness as pundits, they are both very credible and give good insights into the sport based on their expertise and experience.

I just happen to think that Wilkin and Peacock do as well and in my view come across as a bit more likeable at the same time (I think the two football pundits mentioned are quite arrogant... maybe they deserve to be!)

But these are opinions not #FACTS, even if I do write it in capital letters and put a hash tag next to it, so we can all happily disagree.