Less than 20,000 sold for Cup Semi Triple Header it seems

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The men's Challenge Cup that we've spent about 20 pages pointing out is failing and has lost its lustre?

These new, exciting, progressive competitions that we want to draw in a new audience will benefit from association with that?

I believe all three would benefit in the immediate short term, yes.

Just as the RLWC has been planned this very year in the U.K.

Would you argue what is being done with the planning of the World Cup to be wrongheaded?

Edited May 10, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[whatmichaelsays]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We need to be careful that we don't overstate any problems. It doesn't really matter whether it used to get big crowds for some earlier rounds really. That ain't massively relevant to 2022.

We see poor crowds for the playoffs and the Challenge Cup Semi Finals and Final often has bigger crowds than the SL equivalent and generally has far bigger viewing figures too.

It really is weird that we have gone to an almost subscription model like Netflix and then act confused when those 'subscribers' don't pay for another episode on a PPV basis. 

I'm not sure Netflix is the right analogy here. If anything, Netflix has disrupted the traditional subscription model where lots of stuff you don't want is bundled in with the stuff you do (eg, you can't just subscribe to the sports channels, you have to buy some other guff alongside it), you're tied into an 18 month contract and cancelling it is made deliberately difficult. With Netflix, I can subscribe when there's something I want, easily cancel as soon as it stops being interesting and choose combine it with other services for a package that is probably still cheaper than a traditional sub. 

The whole "include this, this and this in the season ticket" argument is that traditional subscription model. The notion that we make it more appealing, inviting and accessible for people to buy RL on their own, more flexible terms is more like the Netflix model and one that I think younger audiences in particular are more receptive to. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

Would you argue what is being done with the planning of the World Cup to be wrongheaded?

I have done very specifically with regards to the final which I think is a decision of a kind you'd make 10 years ago.

I'm ambivalent about the rest because I get why it has been done the way it's been done. The proof will be when we see the level of coverage the women's and wheelchair games get.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, gingerjon said:

I have done very specifically with regards to the final which I think is a decision of a kind you'd make 10 years ago.

I'm ambivalent about the rest because I get why it has been done the way it's been done. The proof will be when we see the level of coverage the women's and wheelchair games get.

Fair enough.

I’m not trying to be clever here.

Just pointing out the strategy of cross promotion is not some kind of crazy talk that we need to dismiss.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

Fair enough.

I’m not trying to be clever here.

Just pointing out the strategy of cross promotion is not some kind of crazy talk that we need to dismiss.

No, cross promotion isn't a bad thing in of itself.

It may work for the RLWC - I hope it does - and that drawing together of different streams has been really well integrated from the start.

But with the Challenge Cup, I think the nature of the beast is different. There are probably good and bad arguments for having them run on roughly similar dates but I really am against a pile-em-high approach at the end where we fling more and more product in the hope that we can just about convince just enough people that they're getting unbelievable value.

[Gerrumonside ref]

I actually think the most exciting aspect of wheelchair rugby league is we have reached an audience/player base in parts of the U.K. that you do not normally associate with organised rugby league competition.

If we can emphasise this then it could generate enthusiasm, eyeballs and commercial deals benefiting all aspects of the sport.

We often decry our narrow confines and lack of opportunities to grow - I personally see this as an opportunity.

Particularly if we can capitalise on a successful World Cup and take that into domestic competitions following as a catalyst.

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No, cross promotion isn't a bad thing in of itself.

It may work for the RLWC - I hope it does - and that drawing together of different streams has been really well integrated from the start.

But with the Challenge Cup, I think the nature of the beast is different. There are probably good and bad arguments for having them run on roughly similar dates but I really am against a pile-em-high approach at the end where we fling more and more product in the hope that we can just about convince just enough people that they're getting unbelievable value.

Fair enough and I think I agree with your wider point and we see it reflected in a levelling off in the enthusiasm for single event double headers etc etc.

People generally think balance is important in their lives and time is as sacred as cash.

Therefore 2 hours for a rugby league match/event might be optimal.

[RP London]

37 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The way to promote women's rugby league is to have the girls play some of their lovely little internationals before the men get on with the real business of a club fixture?

youve missed the point Jon.. not a full international just a one off 9s match so that they dont get to play for too long and show us too much of what they can do, just enough so they dont get too tired. 

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'm not sure Netflix is the right analogy here. If anything, Netflix has disrupted the traditional subscription model where lots of stuff you don't want is bundled in with the stuff you do (eg, you can't just subscribe to the sports channels, you have to buy some other guff alongside it), you're tied into an 18 month contract and cancelling it is made deliberately difficult. With Netflix, I can subscribe when there's something I want, easily cancel as soon as it stops being interesting and choose combine it with other services for a package that is probably still cheaper than a traditional sub. 

The whole "include this, this and this in the season ticket" argument is that traditional subscription model. The notion that we make it more appealing, inviting and accessible for people to buy RL on their own, more flexible terms is more like the Netflix model and one that I think younger audiences in particular are more receptive to. 

Well we're Sky Sports asking people to pay £15.95 for Sheffield United vs Crystal Palace on top of the existing subscription during the pandemic then.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

Everything's running as normal on cup final day, thank goodness it's a Saturday. 

Not sure the OP will save much time going via Tottenham Hale though, 5 mins at best, plus one stop longer on tube. 

Apologies I mis remembered.. dont know why i had Tottenham Hale in my head.. our tickets are to White Hart Lane so should be a nice short walk from there.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'm not sure Netflix is the right analogy here. If anything, Netflix has disrupted the traditional subscription model where lots of stuff you don't want is bundled in with the stuff you do (eg, you can't just subscribe to the sports channels, you have to buy some other guff alongside it), you're tied into an 18 month contract and cancelling it is made deliberately difficult. With Netflix, I can subscribe when there's something I want, easily cancel as soon as it stops being interesting and choose combine it with other services for a package that is probably still cheaper than a traditional sub. 

The whole "include this, this and this in the season ticket" argument is that traditional subscription model. The notion that we make it more appealing, inviting and accessible for people to buy RL on their own, more flexible terms is more like the Netflix model and one that I think younger audiences in particular are more receptive to. 

A lot of people pay for their RL content via the season ticket, many clubs now, allow this to be done via direct debit. People's RL activity is paid for (the majority never go to  away games). That is the comparison to Netflix. 

Netflix never then ask them to pay more to watch it. Ever. 

We have gone so far into the season ticket world that our customers are not into paying more. 

It's like asking netflix customers to pay for a couple of episodes of every series of Sex Education or similar. They don't, and customers wouldn't do it. 

I'm not directly comparing the payment structure etc. it is the customer behaviour of asking them to pay twice.

We have black and white evidence of huge drops for pay games, but act surprised every time.

[Dave T]

30 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well we're Sky Sports asking people to pay £15.95 for Sheffield United vs Crystal Palace on top of the existing subscription during the pandemic then.

PPV used to be a thing on Sky Sports Prem. There is a reason it was scrapped. 

[Tommygilf]

Lurking behind a lot of this as well is that 4 groups of 5 teams fits rather nicely if you have 2 Leagues with 10 teams in each...

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Lurking behind a lot of this as well is that 4 groups of 5 teams fits rather nicely if you have 2 Leagues with 10 teams in each...

The repetition would bore me to tears. So we'd essentially have our league competition as a league followed by knockout then much the same for our cup competition. No thanks.

[Tommygilf]

35 minutes ago, Damien said:

The repetition would bore me to tears. So we'd essentially have our league competition as a league followed by knockout then much the same for our cup competition. No thanks.

Yeah I think that would be too far.

I suspect the RFL will do a lot of what on paper I don't mind them doing, but will be doing it for all the wrong reasons.

[Tommygilf]

 

Seems an appropriate place for this. So much of this is applicable to the Challange Cup too.

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

Seems an appropriate place for this. So much of this is applicable to the Challange Cup too.

There are certainly parallels but the trouble is in Football the FA Cup has been superseded in prominence by European competitions and the all consuming Premier League. There is also the international game which is ever present.

In RL nothing has replaced it and we just have a diminished competition. Whilst an argument could be made for the Grand Final replacing it before that we still had a Premiership Trophy that was getting a solid 35k or so and various cup competitions that on a good day could get 20k plus.

When we only have 2 major competitions then the effect on RL is far more than Football I feel.