Let's Do The RFL's Job For Them - Challenge Cup 2023

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Well, that money's long gone. But in principle, yes.

Lets spend 1 mln per year on the ancillary entertainment to make the CCF the go-to event for league fans around the country. If we sell another 20k tickets it'll pay for itself anyway. 

Magic is a TV event more than anything - Sky love it. 

The Grand Final is the competitive peak - crowning our best team - so it's about the game itself. And it's in the north. 

But the CCF, we can embellish with a good time around it, especially as a majority of fans will have to travel for it. 

But where we are now, as I said up thread, for me this is all about enticing rugby league fans back to the CCF not - yet - about attracting people who don't know anything about the sport. ie the so called "event crowd". 

We have fans, even in the southeast. Let's make it worthwhile them attending. 

At the same time hopefully IMG will help us spread the gospel and we can expand that pool of potential attendees. 

So you want to entice existing fans ? , Half the posters on this thread suggest enticing the ' event ' crowd , my point exactly , everybody has the solution , but they are all different 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well that's not an investment to grow revenue or grow events like the Challenge Cup then. 

So we'll grow the Challenge Cup final with poorer players ? 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well that's not an investment to grow revenue or grow events like the Challenge Cup then. 

How about we reduce the salary cap and spend that money on the CC final ?

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So we'll grow the Challenge Cup final with poorer players ? 

It doesn't have to be poorer players. That's just daft and you seem intent on arguing for the sake of it. 

It's quite funny though because when it suits you will also argue that SL can grow whilst devoting big sums to the Championship, just to prop up a select number of full time clubs to the detriment of other Championship clubs. Not wasting money propping up full time championship clubs wouldn't have diminished SL and wouldn't have made the Challenge Cup final poorer.

Another approach could have seen £20k off each Super League club. That wouldn't have made poorer players either but would have been £240k on growing tge Challenge Cup final.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Damien

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How about we reduce the salary cap and spend that money on the CC final ?

You do realise the salary cap isn't money don't you? Reducing the salary cap wouldn't give any more money for the Challenge Cup final.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

You do realise the salary cap isn't money don't you? Reducing the salary cap wouldn't give any more money for the Challenge Cup final.

 I worked with Steve Williams at the RFL back in 2003 on the implementation of the SC to the lower tiers , what work have you done with it ?

[Padge]

9 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  It would be a good idea giving the Challenge  Cup a higher profile with better marketing.Not many   WM Club trips now as most have closed down or are run on a shoestring.Why not have trips from schools for the kids 10000 tickets at £5 free entry to supervising teachers and schools could ask their local community to sponsor coaches to the stadium.Get the young ones involved and a day out in the fresh  air.After all they have been through with Covid and financial stress they deserve an outing.

This is something the other lot did in the 1970s to fill Twickenham. They doled out tickets and schools had to sort out transport. I think the schools entered an imaginary raffle to pretend tickets were scarce.

[theswanmcr]

I like the sentiment of the OP to inject new life into the Cup Final but most of those ideas eg half-time show would work much better for a nighttime SL Grand Final. For me it should be….

• A capital wide celebration of RL across the whole weekend

• Double header at Wembley with womens and mens final on Saturday 

• Wheelchair final at Wembley Arena/Copper Box on Friday

• PDRL /Students/London RL etc finals at New River/Trailfinders on Sunday

• Cup Final mixes traditional with modern with its entertainment offer eg big brass bands playing alongside funkier strolling bands 

Ultimately the question of what does the sport want the cup to be needs answering first.

[Dave T]

If people have different ideas on how to improve, we should do none of them. 

Sounds very sensible. 

 

[GUBRATS]

Keep it simple 

[theswanmcr]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If people have different ideas on how to improve, we should do none of them. 

Sounds very sensible. 

 

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not - but I never said that.

I really like the idea of a Legends parade but a 90s theme (or any other decade) is way too specific and not relevant for many of the audience.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not - but I never said that.

I really like the idea of a Legends parade but a 90s theme (or any other decade) is way too specific and not relevant for many of the audience.

It was aimed at me 

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

 I worked with Steve Williams at the RFL back in 2003 on the implementation of the SC to the lower tiers , what work have you done with it ?

So you should know better then than to think cutting the salary cap pays for the Challenge Cup final to get better.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

So you should know better then than to think cutting the salary cap pays for the Challenge Cup final to get better.

In theory if you reduce the amount that all clubs can spend on players wages , then there would be money that could be spent elsewhere 

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, theswanmcr said:

I like the sentiment of the OP to inject new life into the Cup Final but most of those ideas eg half-time show would work much better for a nighttime SL Grand Final. For me it should be….

• A capital wide celebration of RL across the whole weekend

• Double header at Wembley with womens and mens final on Saturday 

• Wheelchair final at Wembley Arena/Copper Box on Friday

• PDRL /Students/London RL etc finals at New River/Trailfinders on Sunday

• Cup Final mixes traditional with modern with its entertainment offer eg big brass bands playing alongside funkier strolling bands 

Ultimately the question of what does the sport want the cup to be needs answering first.

No. Making a weekend of it won't attract fans. It's just more 'pile it high, sell it cheap'. 

The CCF should ultimately be a single rugby league match with two quality teams competing for a trophy of significance. It's the second most important competition in Northern Hemisphere rugby league. 

But - and it's a big but - we should enhance the day with entertainment and experiences so that attendees know that even if the game turns out a bit flat they'll have had a good day anyway. But the rugby is what it's built on.

People don't return to events unless the central element is something they're interested in. 

For comparison: people who attend more than one NFL London game do actually have a passing interest in NFL, even if it's just Madden, or Youtube highlights.

 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In theory if you reduce the amount that all clubs can spend on players wages , then there would be money that could be spent elsewhere 

The clubs could spend that money elsewhere or do you just propose they voluntarily give it to the RFL?

You don't need to cut the salary cap. It does nothing unless you take money from clubs and there are far easier ways to do that. Reduce central funding by a percentage and put it into a fund for events and job.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If people have different ideas on how to improve, we should do none of them. 

Sounds very sensible. 

 

You don't work for the RFL do you?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

The clubs could spend that money elsewhere or do you just propose they voluntarily give it to the RFL?

You don't need to cut the salary cap. It does nothing unless you take money from clubs and there are far easier ways to do that. Reduce central funding by a percentage and put it into a fund for events and job.

Yes , it's for the good of the ' Game ' of course 

If you reduce central funding the poorer/weaker clubs lose out ( much like a SC reduction ) whereas it doesn't affect the richer ones , but you know that 

 

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not - but I never said that.

I really like the idea of a Legends parade but a 90s theme (or any other decade) is way too specific and not relevant for many of the audience.

 

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It was aimed at me 

Yes. It's an odd stance. 

Nobody is saying anytgibg is easy, but we are seeing that the Challenge Cup is dying in front of us, and for me that would be a disaster for the game. 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , it's for the good of the ' Game ' of course 

If you reduce central funding the poorer/weaker clubs lose out ( much like a SC reduction ) whereas it doesn't affect the richer ones , but you know that 

And if no one voluntarily gives money what do you do then?

I know reducing the salary cap gives nothing extra for the Challenge Cup final. So should you with your extensive salary cap knowledge.

 

[gingerjon]

17 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

No. Making a weekend of it won't attract fans. It's just more 'pile it high, sell it cheap'. 

The CCF should ultimately be a single rugby league match with two quality teams competing for a trophy of significance. It's the second most important competition in Northern Hemisphere rugby league. 

But - and it's a big but - we should enhance the day with entertainment and experiences so that attendees know that even if the game turns out a bit flat they'll have had a good day anyway. But the rugby is what it's built on.

People don't return to events unless the central element is something they're interested in. 

For comparison: people who attend more than one NFL London game do actually have a passing interest in NFL, even if it's just Madden, or Youtube highlights.

 

Pretty much all this.

[GUBRATS]

Keep it simple 

One price tickets , no early or late deals 

Pick a date , stick to it 

Pick a venue , stick to it 

Put the attending clubs opposite the camera's 

Put neutrals under the camera's

If there's music , keep it simple , brass band , or rock band on stage low down central under camera's

Booze , no need to ' cram it in ' for us, so better options , and realistic prices 

Food , same as above 

Market locally , but find an angle that suits us , ' the real ' game 

 

[gingerjon]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Keep it simple 

One price tickets , no early or late deals 

Pick a date , stick to it 

Pick a venue , stick to it 

Put the attending clubs opposite the camera's 

Put neutrals under the camera's

If there's music , keep it simple , brass band , or rock band on stage low down central under camera's

Booze , no need to ' cram it in ' for us, so better options , and realistic prices 

Food , same as above 

Market locally , but find an angle that suits us , ' the real ' game 

 

There's a lot of ideas there for someone who a page or so back said he wasn't pretentious enough to put his ideas on.

What's local for Wembley? The South East as a whole, Harrow borough, the university campus on Wembley way?

 

[theswanmcr]

15 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

No. Making a weekend of it won't attract fans. It's just more 'pile it high, sell it cheap'. 

The CCF should ultimately be a single rugby league match with two quality teams competing for a trophy of significance. It's the second most important competition in Northern Hemisphere rugby league. 

But - and it's a big but - we should enhance the day with entertainment and experiences so that attendees know that even if the game turns out a bit flat they'll have had a good day anyway. But the rugby is what it's built on.

People don't return to events unless the central element is something they're interested in. 

For comparison: people who attend more than one NFL London game do actually have a passing interest in NFL, even if it's just Madden, or Youtube highlights.

 

No it’s not selling it cheap at all… it is one way to build an RL brand and change perceptions eg it is not just a mens game played by two northern teams. Making it a big celebration of the sport in all its forms is very much building everything around the rugby.

I agree we can do more in terms of entertainment but we are not NFL where a game lasts for hours.

If you want to keep it simple then is that really enough to draw big/neutral crowds. I’d suggest only big internationals have the potential these days to do that.

 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There's a lot of ideas there for someone who a page or so back said he wasn't pretentious enough to put his ideas on.

What's local for Wembley? The South East as a whole, Harrow borough, the university campus on Wembley way?

 

Primarily London 

I'm not pretentious enough to think they'd be guaranteed to work , but I do think I know what puts people off , more than what attracts them