IMG - Vote on Wednesday

[Eddie]

On 03/10/2022 at 10:42, gingerjon said:

Do you know anyone who is going to pay £250 a year for rugby league streaming?

Certainly not 100,000 people. 

[frank]

IMG have a h-ll of a job of trying to flog a nearly dead horse. I look at  last Sundays game Leigh versus Batley. No other games in the area which is a  supposedly  RL stronghold and the gate is a miserable 7,000. It should have been at least double that.  Unless you can get neutral supporters to attend big games the outlook is pretty grim.

 

[ShropshireBull]

9 minutes ago, frank said:

IMG have a h-ll of a job of trying to flog a nearly dead horse. I look at  last Sundays game Leigh versus Batley. No other games in the area which is a  supposedly  RL stronghold and the gate is a miserable 7,000. It should have been at least double that.  Unless you can get neutral supporters to attend big games the outlook is pretty grim.

 

A non super league game getting more than two premiership rugby crowds on the same day as Manchester derby on telly and in the middle of a recession is a bad crowd? 

IMG do have their work cut out but this is a terrible take.

[frank]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

A non super league game getting more than two premiership rugby crowds on the same day as Manchester derby on telly and in the middle of a recession is a bad crowd? 

IMG do have their work cut out but this is a terrible take.

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. I hope IMG can pull things round but they have SL to deal with and that won't be easy. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

[Coastal_Geordie]

The less games sounds like a good idea - way too many injuries into the back end of the season.  You want to see the best players fit for Grand Finals and World Cups.

As a biased geordie I think Magic Weekend should stay in Newcastle but I am interested to hear what the replacement to Magic weekend would be.  I am hoping the WC opener will demonstrate again that St James park is just as great (if not better!) as the likes of Old Trafford and Wembley for marquee events.

The mid season international v France sounds like a good development.  They should think carefully about where to host when in England.  With all due respect you are not going to grow the game holding it in an easy option like Warrington or Hull.  At the same time you don’t want a big half empty football ground.  It’s tough to get right I’m sure.

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, Coastal_Geordie said:

The less games sounds like a good idea - way too many injuries into the back end of the season.  You want to see the best players fit for Grand Finals and World Cups.

As a biased geordie I think Magic Weekend should stay in Newcastle but I am interested to hear what the replacement to Magic weekend would be.  I am hoping the WC opener will demonstrate again that St James park is just as great (if not better!) as the likes of Old Trafford and Wembley for marquee events.

The mid season international v France sounds like a good development.  They should think carefully about where to host when in England.  With all due respect you are not going to grow the game holding it in an easy option like Warrington or Hull.  At the same time you don’t want a big half empty football ground.  It’s tough to get right I’m sure.

I had expected more to be fair, not that  it  isn't wholly a bad idea.

For me quite a lot already exists or is a re-imagining of what has gone before.

The grading proposals are surely a overworking of existing standards and licensing?

A mid and end of season internationals already existed.

The really good points is re-stating standards and hopefully establishing a template for tier one clubs.

I have often promoted the idea of a mid summer Bastille Day international, so I welcome that.

The really poor is-

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

 

[LeytherRob]

On 05/10/2022 at 08:09, ShropshireBull said:

A non super league game getting more than two premiership rugby crowds on the same day as Manchester derby on telly and in the middle of a recession is a bad crowd? 

IMG do have their work cut out but this is a terrible take.

Moreover, it was a game involving a team that was 1/150 on at the bookies. The crowd far exceeded my expectations to be honest considering it was a foregone conclusion in many peoples eyes, I was expecting quite a few Leigh fans not to bother after Fev didn't make the final.

[steve oates]

On 05/10/2022 at 10:11, frank said:

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

No they don't............... SL was the saviour of the game and remains so today.

I suspect you don't go back to 1995..........

[Saint Toppy]

11 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The really poor is-

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

 

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite - Is it ? or is it an attempt to force up standards to a point where if you want to play in SL in the future you must have things right on and off the field.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game. - Agree with that one, can't see any logic in it especially when supporters can't be bothered to attend one game let alone 2.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong.  - Magic is just another loop fixture and is in there just for the RFL to make money. Attendances at Magic are no better than a normal round of SL fixtures.

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games? - This definately needs further info from IMG on their vision on how to achieve this.

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship. - Given these are just the headline structure proposals at the moment i'd expect these details to be forthcoming before the clubs start voting on the proposals.

[steve oates]

11 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

Keeping the "A" clubs in Superleague could also be read as pushing the "B" clubs to improve. It could be read as ensuring the biggest clubs who have the bigger fan base remain in SL for SKY to show. Two good commercial reasons to be fair.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Saint Toppy said:

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

FFS.

It has literally come out as a said out-loud thought about something that might happen (possibly but probably not) amongst a long list of other tings that might happen but are also more likely not to, so that they can work through which ideas are better than others.

It demonstrates nothing other than some RL fans' inability to bother to read something before forming an opinion on it.

[steve oates]

3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games? - This definately needs further info from IMG on their vision on how to achieve this.

Sounds an absolute howler this one...........Like you I await a logical explanation.....

[ShropshireBull]

11 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Moreover, it was a game involving a team that was 1/150 on at the bookies. The crowd far exceeded my expectations to be honest considering it was a foregone conclusion in many peoples eyes, I was expecting quite a few Leigh fans not to bother after Fev didn't make the final.

Yep said many times I think Derek way wrong about future but if sport had one or two more like Derek would be healthier. Anyway on criteria of crowds will be ahead of three SL teams, stadium ahead of three currently and if they can be competitive next season then could be ticking plenty of boxes.

[ShropshireBull]

1 minute ago, steve oates said:

Sounds an absolute howler this one...........Like you I await a logical explanation.....

They realize the numbers dont work and we go to 14 pronto.

[FearTheVee]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong.  - Magic is just another loop fixture and is in there just for the RFL to make money. Attendances at Magic are no better than a normal round of SL fixtures.

I would be very interested to see a summary from SL of the economics of the Magic Weekend, as I think just looking at the attendace relative to a normal round is to overly simplify.

Host cities bid for the weekend.  Operating costs are consolidated across one venue.  The games are all televised, meaning more content for broadcasters than a normal weekend, in a cost effective way (kit all at one location).

I hope that any decision on Magic is made on its own merits rather than as a way to cut down on one fixture.  Personally, I think it is a good event that could grow with more thought put into moving it around more (I'd like to see it back in Cardiff for example after a long absence, I think there would be a renewed enthusiasm for that vs another weekend in Newcastle etc).

Edited October 11, 2022 by FearTheVee

[ShropshireBull]

4 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

I would be very interested to see a summary from SL of the economics of the Magic Weekend, as I think just looking at the attendace relative to a normal round is to overly simplify.

Host cities bid for the weekend.  Operating costs are consolidated across one venue.  The games are all televised, meaning more content for broadcasters than a normal weekend, in a cost effective way (kit all at one location).

I hope that any decision on Magic is made on its own merits rather than as a way to cut down on one fixture.  Personally, I think it is a good event that could grow with more thought put into moving it around more (I'd like to see it back in Cardiff for example after a long absence, I think there would be a renewed enthusiasm for that vs another weekend in Newcastle etc).

Think case was Magic is behind a paywall and therefore cannabalising the CC Final which is our one set piece event on FTA tv. 

[FearTheVee]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Think case was Magic is behind a paywall and therefore cannabalising the CC Final which is our one set piece event on FTA tv. 

Well, that is at best guesswork I would say.  What happens when we scrap Magic and don't grow the CC Final crowd, what do we blame then . . . ?

Anyway, I'm sure these people have access to far more data (and indeed common sense) than me, but scrapping Magic wouldn't make me any more likely to attend the CC Final as a neutral.

Edited October 11, 2022 by FearTheVee

[Harry Stottle]

On 05/10/2022 at 10:11, frank said:

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. I hope IMG can pull things round but they have SL to deal with and that won't be easy. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

Hi Frank sorry for the late reply, but I recall we have had a similar conversation before about fans, re the match you comment on Leigh v Batley and the lack of support at the game in a "RL Stronghold" area you must be aiming at the fans of the three big SL teams in the area, but that would also apply in the other direction, I was at the game and I would estimate there was about 800 Batley fans that would leave somewhere close to 6,500 Leigh fans, if Leigh did not exist would you expect our close neighbour Wigan would suddenly gain a massive increase in attendance from Leigh, or Warrington and Saints would also benefit, or all 3 to get a share of the 6500 Leigh fans, not a chance I would say there would be a maximum of 300 who would attend any of the others on a permanent basis the others I fear would be lost to the sport. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship. - Given these are just the headline structure proposals at the moment i'd expect these details to be forthcoming before the clubs start voting on the proposals.

And they had better be good Toppy, like Turkeys voting for Xmas whatever standard a club is at if it doesn't suit them or they assume it could have long term repercussions for them they will turn it down, no clubs are going to become martyr's "for the good of the game" and put their own futures on the line.

This is why I don't think there should be any vote on any proposals until the game knows at what level it is going to be at until the new TV contract is negotiated, and SL declares its intention re funding levels.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Keeping the "A" clubs in Superleague could also be read as pushing the "B" clubs to improve. It could be read as ensuring the biggest clubs who have the bigger fan base remain in SL for SKY to show. Two good commercial reasons to be fair.

I am very curios to learn how clubs especially those outside of SL who get a 'B' grading and therefore less funding than those 'B' grades that are in SL with the obvious differential in funding are going to acheive the next level and gain SL status.

[ShropshireBull]

1 hour ago, FearTheVee said:

Well, that is at best guesswork I would say.  What happens when we scrap Magic and don't grow the CC Final crowd, what do we blame then . . . ?

Anyway, I'm sure these people have access to far more data (and indeed common sense) than me, but scrapping Magic wouldn't make me any more likely to attend the CC Final as a neutral.

IMG and the RFL. To your example, ok you are one datapoint but that isnt significant.

For me cup declined for three reasons. Wembley isnt new anymore, London is disgustingly expensive and CC now feels more like a SL extension.

We cant change first two but I would get the SL teams in at 32, have them forced to play away so CC again feels like the proper cup competition involving the whole pyramid and non SL teams feel part of it.

[Cerulean]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

FFS.

....

An unnecessary expletive. There are about a dozen posters on here who consider themselves to be the reservoir of all wisdom on rugby league, pouring scorn on those who don’t bow to their superior viewpoint. It sets an uncomfortable tone.

As all employees of poor management know, there is no such thing as a good idea, there are only untested hypotheses: For the IMG thoughts to become sufficiently meaningful to be acted on, they need to be thoroughly examined, thought through, evaluated, quantified, pathways to outcome explained, fine details considered. The question is: who derives those pathways and fine details? And there is a suspicion that the ones who will control the output, those really in charge, the owners of the top few teams in Super League, are driven by self-interest, and not the interest of rugby league as a whole. This is an internet forum, it’s interesting to hear all contributions, and it will be entertaining to measure these contributions against the eventual outcome.

 

[gingerjon]

17 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

 

57 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

posters on here who consider themselves to be the reservoir of all wisdom on rugby league,

Yup.

[Jughead]

Super League clubs coming in a round earlier and whacking clubs for 70+ points isn’t interesting, exciting or in any way going to make people attend the final come May or June or July or August or whatever month they decide the final is in based on a whim. We’ll soon remember why we moved away from bringing clubs into the competition at such a stage when these results occur, just as they did previously, and when crowds are poor. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

Super League clubs coming in a round earlier and whacking clubs for 70+ points isn’t interesting, exciting or in any way going to make people attend the final come May or June or July or August or whatever month they decide the final is in based on a whim. We’ll soon remember why we moved away from bringing clubs into the competition at such a stage when these results occur, just as they did previously, and when crowds are poor. 

I don't necessarily disagree, but you ate ignoring the attractive element of it. It allows for the luck of the draw to come into play. By having a more open draw you have more chance of SL clubs meeting each other and knocking some out, adding some uncertainty and unpredictability, which has been a draw of the cup. 

Only bringing in the 12 SL Clubs in at the last 16 stage is a round too late for me in terms of interest. The chances now are that you are just going to get a standard draw against a normal SL team.