If I ruled the World Cup

[Martyn Sadler]

https://www.totalrl.com/if-i-ruled-the-world-cup/

[Oxford]

I know you want world peace but I can't wait for the the swimming costume part of this event.

"Over to you IMG" does that make them the  the new Eric Morley?

I think you might have nailed IMG's first real hurdle getting the Aussies to show more than a passing interest that turns into action.

 

 

 

 

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

How would you bring about world peace Martyn? Through coercion? Violence? Peace is subjective Martyn, a scorched earth would be peaceful. In any case as a Hegelian do you not believe conflict is the furnace in which ideas are forged? I don't think you've fully thought this through.

Anyway I'll read the rest later cheers. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by DI Keith Fowler

[HawkMan]

Martyn you're approaching this from the wrong way. As World Leader you just issue a diktat banning other sports, particularly Union and Soccer, job done.

Martyn,  seriously the format of RLWC21  didn't work, not enough close games. We all applaud Greece , Jamaica etc for being there, but their moment in the sun shouldn't be in a Finals. Like football's no hopers,  San Marino Gibraltar etc, Greece and Jamaica etc can feel part of the wider game of RL in the qualifiers,  that's their " World Cup moment", if they're good enough to qualify great, but not to be humiliated.

Here is my post of 13th October, pasted on here, I stand by it.

From thread;

Wholeheartedly agree, I do feel the format is over ambitious,  only football can have a genuine WC with 16 or more teams. World Cups should showcase the very best, no passengers making up the numbers.

I fear newbies watching will see a 30- 0 half time scoreline and switch off, and not knowing the game will think it's all like that and not bother.

My ideal format would be 10 teams, two groups of 5, each playing 4 games. Top of each group through to semis. Qfinal play offs, A2 vB3, B2v A3 , two winners meet A1 or B1 in semi finals,  then final. That would give a tournament of 25 games, only 6 less than now.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by HawkMan

[overtheborder]

Interesting point about summer games, can imagine a lot more casual fans being interested in sitting in the sun watching the games, I like that idea. Maybe think also about hosting some of the games in football stadia in specifically touristy-type areas (Cambridge, London or Oxford is potentially more appealing to the travelling supporters than even the RL heartlands).

[MatthewWoody]

4 minutes ago, overtheborder said:

Interesting point about summer games, can imagine a lot more casual fans being interested in sitting in the sun watching the games, I like that idea. Maybe think also about hosting some of the games in football stadia in specifically touristy-type areas (Cambridge, London or Oxford is potentially more appealing to the travelling supporters than even the RL heartlands).

Unfortunately, there are more competitive teams in the SH, where summer covers a different part of the year, so it's impossible. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

On 26/11/2022 at 19:37, MatthewWoody said:

With so few International rugby league (less tours than rugby union or football, the same goes with club ru and football: they fly, they travel, see places, etc.; nothing like that in rl), I think Australia/Kiwis would travel very gladly to England every now and again. 
The elephant in the room is that England have been exposed: they're not used to Origin/top Test Matches kind of intense games and need to play SH sides more often. I think players like tours and this is something they envy to ru and football players.

I'd be more than happy to have an England team playing the Euros and a GB (if you wanto to call "England" the team in the Euros) team playing a touring side, if there's one. It's needed. 
Something similar already happens: England ru tours during the B&I Lions tour (so, England is without their best players). England rl sends a team without SL academy players to the under 19 Euros. 
Playing the Knights (call them "England", in order to make them test matches) in Euros would still be a valuable and challenging test for France, Wales, etc. 
If France beat the Knights, then their voice in asking more test v England would be stronger. 

 

On 28/11/2022 at 22:12, Gomersall said:

Hull, Huddersfield and Wigan it is then.

Unbelievably naive

[Mathius Hellwege]

6 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

https://www.totalrl.com/if-i-ruled-the-world-cup/

Unbelievably naive

[Jughead]

Two click-bait articles in a week. Rugby League journalism really is the pits. 

[Martyn Sadler]

10 hours ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

Unbelievably naive

Explain yourself!

[Martyn Sadler]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

Two click-bait articles in a week. Rugby League journalism really is the pits. 

And explain what you mean by that ridiculous comment!

[Martyn Sadler]

13 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

Unfortunately, there are more competitive teams in the SH, where summer covers a different part of the year, so it's impossible. 

The month of July in most parts of Australia is perfectly pleasant for tourists to that country.

[Jughead]

8 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

And explain what you mean by that ridiculous comment!

Happily. In one week we’ve had two clickbait articles of “My England team for three years time” and “here’s my ridiculous idea for the World Cup” both from you. We’ve also had League Express creating news stories from Derek Beaumont tweets of 140 characters or less. I appreciate it’s off-season and there’s a lack of news or stories but it comes across, to me at least, very clickbait like and very “Serious About RL” when League Express and Total RL are of a much higher standard than the clickbait sites out there. 

[Martyn Sadler]

52 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Happily. In one week we’ve had two clickbait articles of “My England team for three years time” and “here’s my ridiculous idea for the World Cup” both from you. We’ve also had League Express creating news stories from Derek Beaumont tweets of 140 characters or less. I appreciate it’s off-season and there’s a lack of news or stories but it comes across, to me at least, very clickbait like and very “Serious About RL” when League Express and Total RL are of a much higher standard than the clickbait sites out there. 

What do you understand "clickbait" to mean?

Whatever it is, a considered article looking ahead to the 2025 World Cup and England's potential selection for it doesn't seem to me to fall into that category and neither does my piece on playing future World Cups in July.

Clickbait tends to be sensationalist rubbish encouraging you to gawp at something vaguely ridiculous.

Nothing on Totalrl.com falls remotely into that category.

And I would add that Derek Beaumont's tweets are often lively and newsworthy.

As always, you are entitled to disagree with the substance of an article, or the detailed points it makes, but to call it clickbait makes you look silly.

[Jughead]

9 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

What do you understand "clickbait" to mean?

Whatever it is, a considered article looking ahead to the 2025 World Cup and England's potential selection for it doesn't seem to me to fall into that category and neither does my piece on playing future World Cups in July.

Clickbait tends to be sensationalist rubbish encouraging you to gawp at something vaguely ridiculous.

Nothing on Totalrl.com falls remotely into that category.

And I would add that Derek Beaumont's tweets are often lively and newsworthy.

As always, you are entitled to disagree with the substance of an article, or the detailed points it makes, but to call it clickbait makes you look silly.

I’d argue that talking of a possible England team in three years time is “sensationalist rubbish” given I am of the opinion it’s to make people react and reply, not necessarily with relevant or insightful replies. It’s the sort of thing you see a lot of on social media specifically football. A World Cup in July is less likely to provoke and antagonise but still falls under click me to read a ridiculous idea, of which I suspect you know what you’re doing as this isn’t the first time (a 36 team league with conferences pitting West Wales against Wigan, anyone) you’ve done such and I don’t believe you actually believe this and do it for the reaction and inevitable clicks on the site, but I can prove that, it’s just my guess. 

The most recent Beaumont tweets, about him wanting Featherstone promoted isn’t exactly newsworthy, is it? The article of “we’re going to aim for a 12k average attendance” is easily wiped out as a story with basic maths and not challenged or decided it was, as Beaumont put it, wrote to wind people up, like the troll Beaumont is, so falls under the clickbait category and plays up to Beaumont, hardly the look the competition, the sport or IMG probably want. 

England have a game in less than six months time against France. Six of their twenty-four man RLWC squad are unavailable straight away, owing to the fact that they’re Australian based, so there’s 25% of their most recent squad not playing, so six players definitely to come in. Whether Shaun Wane persists with Mike Cooper (34), Ryan Hall (35), Michael McIlorum (34), Sam Tomkins (33) and Chris Hill (35) in six months time, given realistically all will be retired or in the twilight of their career in 2025, is worth the debate too, so you could fairly argue that another five spaces in a twenty-four man squad could become vacant in April, totalling eleven vacancies’ within the squad for the game at Warrington. A debate as to who could step in to the side in six months is, in my opinion, more relevant, thought provoking and insightful than naming a side in three years time, whilst also highlighting the fixture and it’s importance to England (and France). 

Happy to disagree, of course.

[Martyn Sadler]

20 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I’d argue that talking of a possible England team in three years time is “sensationalist rubbish” given I am of the opinion it’s to make people react and reply, not necessarily with relevant or insightful replies. It’s the sort of thing you see a lot of on social media specifically football.

I would be very happy if people were to react and give their own views, as many have. But your opinion seems remarkably eccentric, both in saying that we shouldn't think three years ahead and that gaining responses is somehow to confirm that an article is clickbait.

We may as well say that, by posting on here, especially in this way, you are trying to make people react and reply so therefore your posts are clickbait. It certainly worked with me.

23 minutes ago, Jughead said:

A World Cup in July is less likely to provoke and antagonise but still falls under click me to read a ridiculous idea, of which I suspect you know what you’re doing as this isn’t the first time (a 36 team league with conferences pitting West Wales against Wigan, anyone) you’ve done such and I don’t believe you actually believe this and do it for the reaction and inevitable clicks on the site, but I can prove that, it’s just my guess. 

I predict that a World Cup in July will eventually happen.

Actually, I recall many years ago writing that Rugby League should become a summer sport and some people reacting in the way you do here. What happened to that idea?

And you are mistaken to think that Wigan would be pitted against West Wales under my 36-team Conference proposal. I'm glad you apparently read it, but unfortunately it seems that you misunderstood it.

25 minutes ago, Jughead said:

The most recent Beaumont tweets, about him wanting Featherstone promoted isn’t exactly newsworthy, is it? The article of “we’re going to aim for a 12k average attendance” is easily wiped out as a story with basic maths and not challenged or decided it was, as Beaumont put it, wrote to wind people up, like the troll Beaumont is, so falls under the clickbait category and plays up to Beaumont, hardly the look the competition, the sport or IMG probably want. 

Beaumont is a major investor in Rugby League, which is hardly consistent with being a troll.

He is active in trying to promote the interests of his club and I admire him for that, even if not every idea he promotes is likely to bear fruit.

But club owners, when they speak out, are almost always newsworthy. I just wish that some of them would speak out more often.

28 minutes ago, Jughead said:

England have a game in less than six months time against France. Six of their twenty-four man RLWC squad are unavailable straight away, owing to the fact that they’re Australian based, so there’s 25% of their most recent squad not playing, so six players definitely to come in. Whether Shaun Wane persists with Mike Cooper (34), Ryan Hall (35), Michael McIlorum (34), Sam Tomkins (33) and Chris Hill (35) in six months time, given realistically all will be retired or in the twilight of their career in 2025, is worth the debate too, so you could fairly argue that another five spaces in a twenty-four man squad could become vacant in April, totalling eleven vacancies’ within the squad for the game at Warrington. A debate as to who could step in to the side in six months is, in my opinion, more relevant, thought provoking and insightful than naming a side in three years time, whilst also highlighting the fixture and it’s importance to England (and France). 

If that had been your initial response, it would have been perfectly reasonable.

If you believe that we should only be thinking four months ahead, rather than three years, that is your prerogative.

But I hope the RFL and the England coaching team are not just thinking as far as the next game.

I would hope that they would already have compiled a list of the likely players who might be in the England squad by 2025.

[Jughead]

8 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I would be very happy if people were to react and give their own views, as many have. But your opinion seems remarkably eccentric, both in saying that we shouldn't think three years ahead and that gaining responses is somehow to confirm that an article is clickbait.

We may as well say that, by posting on here, especially in this way, you are trying to make people react and reply so therefore your posts are clickbait. It certainly worked with me.

I predict that a World Cup in July will eventually happen.

Actually, I recall many years ago writing that Rugby League should become a summer sport and some people reacting in the way you do here. What happened to that idea?

And you are mistaken to think that Wigan would be pitted against West Wales under my 36-team Conference proposal. I'm glad you apparently read it, but unfortunately it seems that you misunderstood it.

Beaumont is a major investor in Rugby League, which is hardly consistent with being a troll.

He is active in trying to promote the interests of his club and I admire him for that, even if not every idea he promotes is likely to bear fruit.

But club owners, when they speak out, are almost always newsworthy. I just wish that some of them would speak out more often.

If that had been your initial response, it would have been perfectly reasonable.

If you believe that we should only be thinking four months ahead, rather than three years, that is your prerogative.

But I hope the RFL and the England coaching team are not just thinking as far as the next game.

I would hope that they would already have compiled a list of the likely players who might be in the England squad by 2025.

If your reaction to being challenged is to just call the person who has challenged you the thing they’re challenging you on, then that says a lot more of you, than me, I feel. I maintain that articles labelled “If I ruled the World Cup” and “My England Squad for the 2025 World Cup” are both content designed with the intention of attracting attention and getting people to click the link rather than being particularly insightful, thought provoking and interesting. 

I have no clue what you claiming to be the brainchild of summer rugby league has to do with anything, tbh.

A World Cup in July clashes annually with Wimbledon, every other year with football tournaments (this football sports washing competition is, at the minute, a one-off) and the Olympics every four years. July is also the off-season for football and Wigan Warriors’, London Broncos, Huddersfield Giants and probably some other fans of clubs who share facilities with football clubs will tell you of summer woes of grounds being relaid in summer months like July and the unavailability of stadia during this period. 

I don’t think being a club owner is exclusive of being a troll. It’s not an either, or situation and we’ve seen it from Dr Marwan Koukash and his Sunday red wine fuelled tweeting sessions of abuse of Nigel Wood’s weight, David Argyle’s claims about Toronto Wolfpack and Derek Beaumont openly admitting that he was, in his words, “on a wind-up” when claiming that Leigh are aiming for a 12k average attendance, which could be debunked in seconds with basic maths and questioning him on the impossibility of it should they get an 8-9k crowd (which would be fantastic for Leigh in any case). League Express writing articles that are admittedly “wind ups” isn’t a great look, I feel. It’s not as though the article challenged the opinion, challenged whether Beaumont going on wind-up’s is good for Leigh, Super League and IMG.

Looking to England’s next game isn’t short sighted, in the slightest. It’s relevant, adds to the build up of Super League and leads to questions of the longer term future for England and the 2025 side and how Shaun Wane acts moving forwards seeing as many players in the 2021 side are around the 31+ age and not just plucking names for games in three years time and little behind it as to what decisions Wane has to make, will he make tough decisions, who is in the running and what he does when 25% of the last side he picked is unavailable for the next international game. Does Shaun Wane stick with some of the trusted players in the short-term or does he make tough decisions and wind down Sam Tomkins’ international career given he’ll be 36 when the World Cup begins in France, he has Jack Welsby who will be at fullback for his club side again in 2023 and another example, a player I like, Mikey Lewis and his Hull KR side have to face five of the six sides who made the Super League play-offs in 2022 before the 29th April when France travel to Warrington. In that time, can he, against the better opposition in the competition, play his way into an England shirt? What does he need to do to get in over George Williams (what does Williams need to do to replicate some of his England form at club level, also?) and Lewis Dodd, who could have two games against NRL opposition under his belt plus games against Leeds, Huddersfield and Wigan before England line up?

I’ll happily PM you something I’d write for the England v France game to be discussed or critiqued that I think is better than plucking names for games in three years time. 

Either way, I’m going to leave it there, we won’t agree which is fine and happens on here.

[The Masked Poster]

A couple of points. 

Rugby League needs all the clicks it can get, whether clickbait or not (You won't believe what Keith Senior looks like now!), so I don't think it is a big deal. 

The RLWC has just finished. It was played out against a backdrop of the Premier League and general football, cricket internationals, RU internationals.....followed by the biggest sporting event on earth. Regardless of when it occurs there will be other, bigger sporting events going on. 

[MatthewWoody]

4 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

The month of July in most parts of Australia is perfectly pleasant for tourists to that country.

Hmm yes, but it'd mean playing more in their summer for them.

[Martyn Sadler]

34 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Hmm yes, but it'd mean playing more in their summer for them.

Spring or autumn more likely, if you assume that winter is December through February, and of course it depends on how many games they play.

[Oxford]

4 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

As always, you are entitled to disagree with the substance of an article, or the detailed points it makes, but to call it clickbait makes you look silly.

I picked this out not to take issue with it but to say this thread reminds of Gulliver Tales or to sum up "Lemuel Sadler in the Land of the Pessimists!"

Even given the opportunity to voice their wishlist draws out everything wrong with the WC.

Even the idea that one sided games are a symptom of WC errors rather than the rules of the game which provide them.

If I could make one change it would be bringing the Aussies truly round to International RL.

 

[Toby Chopra]

4 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

A couple of points. 

Rugby League needs all the clicks it can get, whether clickbait or not (You won't believe what Keith Senior looks like now!), so I don't think it is a big deal.

Lol, nearly spat out my pint at that, bravo sir. 

[Toby Chopra]

On the substance, I would absolutely love it if we could have a June/July world cup, it would be so much better and I'm sure it could be scheduled smartly against other gloval events. 

Superleague would happily make way of course, but getting the NRL to move would be like - well, getting the European football leagues to move for a winter world cup. They'd hate it, as they are already the main draw in the Aussie winter. So we'd have to convince the NRL that the boost to rugby league's global profile would be beneficial for them. 

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

So we'd have to convince the NRL that the boost to rugby league's global profile would be beneficial for them. 

 

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

If I could make one change it would be bringing the Aussies truly round to International RL.

     " Every day would be the first day of spring ......"

[Sports Prophet]

On 03/12/2022 at 02:17, HawkMan said:

Martyn you're approaching this from the wrong way. As World Leader you just issue a diktat banning other sports, particularly Union and Soccer, job done.

Martyn,  seriously the format of RLWC21  didn't work, not enough close games. We all applaud Greece , Jamaica etc for being there, but their moment in the sun shouldn't be in a Finals. Like football's no hopers,  San Marino Gibraltar etc, Greece and Jamaica etc can feel part of the wider game of RL in the qualifiers,  that's their " World Cup moment", if they're good enough to qualify great, but not to be humiliated.

Here is my post of 13th October, pasted on here, I stand by it.

From thread;

Wholeheartedly agree, I do feel the format is over ambitious,  only football can have a genuine WC with 16 or more teams. World Cups should showcase the very best, no passengers making up the numbers.

I fear newbies watching will see a 30- 0 half time scoreline and switch off, and not knowing the game will think it's all like that and not bother.

My ideal format would be 10 teams, two groups of 5, each playing 4 games. Top of each group through to semis. Qfinal play offs, A2 vB3, B2v A3 , two winners meet A1 or B1 in semi finals,  then final. That would give a tournament of 25 games, only 6 less than now.

 

It’s a reasonably good concept, but would need more than 2 games a week in the group stages to come in less than 7 weeks for the finalists.

You are still missing out on more of the best playing the best like a six team round robin with a final. Pre qualify nations 5-20 3 weeks prior with knockout footy to find 2 nations to join the top four. 30 games where the best play the best and the mediocre play the mediocre.