The NRL salary cap now $12.1m (£6.5m)

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, Farmduck said:

So NRL players should be paid less to help the Brit game? Interesting take. Also why would it matter whether the 5 or 6 Brit players of international standard in the NRL were released? Can't England beat France or Wales without them? Some might look at this as an opportunity for fringe ENG squad players to get a run in the national team.

Don't be silly Farmduck that's not what I said, nor is it in any way what I meant.

And I'm afraid the obvious implications of certain things are what they are and the NRL doesn't get to be congratulated for ignoring them or not giving a monkeys.

[Oxford]

8 hours ago, Pulga said:

Just spitballing here but maybe if enough English players were in the NRL we might see the men's English squad almost being an NRL property in the same way Samoa and Tonga almost are.

The evidence of that is even slimmer than the one about Kick and Clap players would make all the difference.

 

[Sports Prophet]

15 hours ago, Tosh said:

Could also see the early return of RTS back to league which would be another positive.

Not before the WC I fear

[Sports Prophet]

16 hours ago, Pulga said:

 

Australian Union players are more and more just guys who aren't good enough for League.

 

I don't think I agree with this. There will be plenty of players good enough for league. It's not like the bottom 20 percentile of players are lights out extraordinary. The players that would be interested in giving it a shot would be risking so much to try it though, that without a large contract from the start, I don't envisage many making the switch.

I don't know what the sevens players earn, but they would be more my target. I would love to see even more intercontinental flavour joining League from World Sevens circuit.

The salary cap needs to keep increasing and I fear without larger crowd numbers, I fear that the television revenue for RL in Aus is far closer to the ceiling (of an Aus market at least) than that of gate receipt income.

[Pulga]

8 hours ago, Keith989 said:

International union is still dominant even in the SH, is it not? League certainly has great foundations down there though. 

I can only speak of the Pacific region. 

I know the TV ratings here have fallen off a cliff. 5 or 6 years ago Wallabies tests would get a million+ viewers. Now they get anywhere from 300k to 600k which is less than the average NRL game on FTA.

Australia and PNG make up 80% of the population of Oceania. Union could be completely dominant in NZ and it wouldn't matter that much.

The fact is the NRL is growing there too. Hopefully we see another team for NZ soon.

 

[Pulga]

24 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don't think I agree with this. There will be plenty of players good enough for league. It's not like the bottom 20 percentile of players are lights out extraordinary. The players that would be interested in giving it a shot would be risking so much to try it though, that without a large contract from the start, I don't envisage many making the switch.

I don't know what the sevens players earn, but they would be more my target. I would love to see even more intercontinental flavour joining League from World Sevens circuit.

The salary cap needs to keep increasing and I fear without larger crowd numbers, I fear that the television revenue for RL in Aus is far closer to the ceiling (of an Aus market at least) than that of gate receipt income.

The Aussie 7 are quite literally players that couldn't make the NRL. Quite a few had development contracts with NRL clubs but never made first grade.

There have been 4 or 5 Fijian 7s players signed by NRL clubs that have never kicked on into first grade also. 

 

[Sports Prophet]

13 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

No the issue is simply numbers playing the game at junior level , only by increasing that number will we see more quality pro players being produced 

You have to sort out the bottom first , not the middle 

Greater numbers does not always translate to greater performers. Whilst I absolutely encourage more participants and I am not saying that RL participation has reached saturation point, I still think there are enough participants to farm out very accomplished players. 

The player performance pathway, the facilities, the coaching of the elite is where the sport was well short of the NRL. That was my experience a decade or so ago. I suspect the disparity in this space has only grown, similar to the salary cap.

[Sports Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The Aussie 7 are quite literally players that couldn't make the NRL. Quite a few had development contracts with NRL clubs but never made first grade.

There have been 4 or 5 Fijian 7s players signed by NRL clubs that have never kicked on into first grade also. 

 

Lachie Miller may be a one off, but I suspect otherwise. To say the Aussie 7s squad are ”literally players that couldn't make the NRL” is making many assumptions.

The assumption that these players don't enjoy RU more than RL.

The assumption that the earning capacity over a career as a mid tier NRL player vs that of a slightly higher tier RU career is more favourable.

The assumption that competing for an Olympic gold medal is not a heavy influence in the decision making process of a professional sportsman.

The simple assumption that every Rugby Australia player would prefer to play NRL.

Not that my thoughts are just limited to Australian RU players.

[Sports Prophet]

11 hours ago, Pulga said:

I think you might be underestimating the shift since then. Rugby League is much, much bigger than union in the Pacific region.

The places that it isn't are so small it's not worth talking about.

In the Pacific, outside the east coast of Australia and Auckland, RU still rules grassroots and professional participation and paying spectators.

So are you saying that outside the east coast of Australia and Auckland, there are no more place worth thinking about for professional RL in the Pacific?

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Greater numbers does not always translate to greater performers. Whilst I absolutely encourage more participants and I am not saying that RL participation has reached saturation point, I still think there are enough participants to farm out very accomplished players. 

The player performance pathway, the facilities, the coaching of the elite is where the sport was well short of the NRL. That was my experience a decade or so ago. I suspect the disparity in this space has only grown, similar to the salary cap.

It's not a ' given ' no , but the more players you start with the more quality players you'll have in the scholarships and academies , there is a reason the RFL have restricted the number of grade 1 academies they accepted , they know that we end up with clubs taking in players from the community game who aren't going to be good enough just to provide a team for the ones good enough to play with or against 

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Oxford said:

The evidence of that is even slimmer than the one about Kick and Clap players would make all the difference.

 

It's not all that ridiculous a theory actually. If we can loosen or broaden the definition of ownership to include those with an all to powerful influence over something, then the NRL isn't that far away at all.

[Pulga]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Lachie Miller may be a one off, but I suspect otherwise. To say the Aussie 7s squad are ”literally players that couldn't make the NRL” is making many assumptions.

The assumption that these players don't enjoy RU more than RL.

The players aren't paid very well. The majority around $50k a year. 

Most people who play union over league here in Australia don't watch union. They watch the NRL. This is a very common thing which union fans raise as a problem all over the internet.

16 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The assumption that the earning capacity over a career as a mid tier NRL player vs that of a slightly higher tier RU career is more favourable.

The Aussie Super Rugby salary cap is $4.8m AUD. It's almost 1/3rd of the NRL salary cap. They also have bigger squads. Fudge the numbers however you want.

19 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The assumption that competing for an Olympic gold medal is not a heavy influence in the decision making process of a professional sportsman.

It may well be. 

20 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The simple assumption that every Rugby Australia player would prefer to play NRL.

Why would we be targeting the ones that don't even want to play RL?

The fact is the NRL is probably THE glamour competition in either code. The Top14 might match the pay but there is nowhere near the celebrity status of the players.

If you have skills that mean you could play anywhere in the world then the NRL would be fairly attractive. I get there could be reasons that would keep you elsewhere.

The fact is most don't have those skills in union. You're taught low-risk rugby. It's the opposite of the NRL.

[Sports Prophet]

49 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I can only speak of the Pacific region. 

I know the TV ratings here have fallen off a cliff. 5 or 6 years ago Wallabies tests would get a million+ viewers. Now they get anywhere from 300k to 600k which is less than the average NRL game on FTA.

Australia and PNG make up 80% of the population of Oceania. Union could be completely dominant in NZ and it wouldn't matter that much.

The fact is the NRL is growing there too. Hopefully we see another team for NZ soon.

 

Using population figures of PNG (new 18m figure I assume as well) to help demonstrate the influence of RL in the South Pacific is terribly misguided.

[Pulga]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

It's not all that ridiculous a theory actually. If we can loosen or broaden the definition of ownership to include those with an all to powerful influence over something, then the NRL isn't that far away at all.

That's my thinking. It's not actual ownership. But what if the NRL was paying the wage of every English national team player? You could see mid-year tests suddenly open up.

[Pulga]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

Using population figures of PNG (new 18m figure I assume as well) to help demonstrate the influence of RL in the South Pacific is terribly misguided.

80% is without the new number. You're looking at over 90% with the new number. 

Apart from Australia and PNG the region is not very populated at all.

[Pulga]

19 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

In the Pacific, outside the east coast of Australia and Auckland, RU still rules grassroots and professional participation and paying spectators.

So are you saying that outside the east coast of Australia and Auckland, there are no more place worth thinking about for professional RL in the Pacific?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Any population outside of Australia and NZ is extremely poor unfortunately. 

[Sports Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Most people who play union over league here in Australia don't watch union. They watch the NRL. This is a very common thing which union fans raise as a problem all over the internet.

Again, that is another very huge assumption and even if true for the majority, may well come down to the available coverage of the two.

8 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The Aussie Super Rugby salary cap is $4.8m AUD. It's almost 1/3rd of the NRL salary cap. They also have bigger squads. Fudge the numbers however you want.

I'm not fudging any numbers. An average NRL player earns over $300k. I am simply suggesting many players skilled for both codes may find it easier to earn a higher salary in RU than in RL. That is not only a realistic suggestion, but near on a certainty.

8 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Why would we be targeting the ones that don't even want to play RL?

You were saying that all 7s players are NRL rejects. That is simply not true, which is the point I was making, that some players may actually prefer to play union. Not that a preference to play RU automatically mean a player dislikes RL anyway.

[Sports Prophet]

14 minutes ago, Pulga said:

That's my thinking. It's not actual ownership. But what if the NRL was paying the wage of every English national team player? You could see mid-year tests suddenly open up.

Absolutely!

[Sports Prophet]

12 minutes ago, Pulga said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Any population outside of Australia and NZ is extremely poor unfortunately. 

Sure, financial value is low. Playing resources is another very valuable currency though.

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, Pulga said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Any population outside of Australia and NZ is extremely poor unfortunately. 

Interesting. Again, I think you are only considering the value of finance.

There are other currencies that these nations are more affluent in, like playing stocks, culture and political influence.

[Pulga]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Interesting. Again, I think you are only considering the value of finance.

There are other currencies that these nations are more affluent in, like playing stocks, culture and political influence.

The NRL already does a fantastic job on that front. There are scouts everywhere in the Pacific.

[The Future is League]

17 hours ago, Damien said:

The RLPA aren't happy though. Im not sure the big issue as this is a healthy increase to give clubs some clarity for next season while negotiations are ongoing for the CBA:

It sets the scene for a tense meeting between the NRL and RLPA when they are expected to resume talks in the new year, with the players' union accusing head office of undermining their attempts to strike agreement on the CBA.

"To announce new salary caps for players without their agreement and bypassing their association is unprecedented," RLPA chair Deidre Anderson said.

"To the best of our knowledge, clubs were also not provided with the details of the new salary caps and player payment structure until approximately five minutes before the ARLC's public announcement.

"For a governing body to set its own salary cap disrespects the entire player representation movement and the importance of collective bargaining.

"Today's announcement goes against negotiating in good faith and only damages the trust between the players and the governing body."

The RLPA say they only received an "185-word financial proposal" on Wednesday which related to all player payments and benefits with a deadline to respond on Thursday.

https://www.examiner.com.au/story/8030621/rlpa-slam-nrl-over-salary-cap-increase/

I think its fair to say that Peter V'landys has wrong footed the players union

[The Future is League]

18 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Talent drain from Super League will likely continue as per recent trends. By the same token will less players come to England? 

With less players less likely to come to here some clubs need to step up with their junior development

[The storm]

22 hours ago, Tosh said:

Would be interesting to see if this significant salary cap increase would see a shift in policy of NRL clubs targeting Super rugby Union players from Australia, NZ and the pacific but especially from New Zealand?

NRL clubs sign dozens of union players at a young age and many make the grade. 

So signing union players at 25 or 26 has not really been the objective

[Copa]

Are there any women’s rugby union competitions that have an equivalent salary cap to that of the NRLW?