Featherstone - Boom or Bust by the looks of it

[Fevrover]

11 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Wrong. That's the whole point - if there were 12 teams bringing in 15,000 crowds every week, creating huge revenues of their own making and not reliant on Sky money, it would be an entrirly valid point.

But there aren't so it isn't. You can't rule out Fev on account of their crowds if you aren't going to rule out London, Toulouse, Newcastle or wheover for the same reason. Otherwise it's just blind prejudice isn't it?

 

It's definitely blind prejudice.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

What trophies will we be able to win ?

Comps not open to Super League clubs. The Championship. The 1895 Cup. Maybe a revamped Yorkshire Cup. 

[Man of Kent]

15 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Wrong. That's the whole point - if there were 12 teams bringing in 15,000 crowds every week, creating huge revenues of their own making and not reliant on Sky money, it would be an entrirly valid point.

But there aren't so it isn't. You can't rule out Fev on account of their crowds if you aren't going to rule out London, Toulouse, Newcastle or wheover for the same reason. Otherwise it's just blind prejudice isn't it?

 

It’s not me who’s blind, chief. 

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

It’s not me who’s blind, chief. 

Good argument skills there, son.

[Fevrover]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

Comps not open to Super League clubs. The Championship. The 1895 Cup. Maybe a revamped Yorkshire Cup. 

And when SL becomes a closed shop do you honestly think most fans of the other two league's will continue to spend money on nothing to aim for apart from top spot and the 1895 Cup?

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

And when SL becomes a closed shop do you honestly think most fans of the other two league's will continue to spend money on nothing to aim for apart from top spot and the 1895 Cup?

I think Fev could continue to get 2k crowds, sure. 

[Fevrover]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

I think Fev could continue to get 2k crowds, sure. 

 For what would be nothing more then friendlies ? 

[bigbaldnmad]

Am I still correct in thinking that there will still be P&R if the team at the top of championship can replace a team of the same category or lower in SL... if so how does it  become a closed shop?

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

 For what would be nothing more than friendlies ? 

The Championship would remain meaningful competition. The clue’s in the name.

[Fevrover]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

The Championship would remain meaningful competition. The clue’s in the name.

Dress it up how you want but in the name or not it's meaningless imo and probably many others.

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Fevrover said:

Dress it up how you want but in the name or not it's meaningless imo and probably many others.

Well, there’d be no opportunity to get towelled in Super League after winning it. I get that. 

But you only have to look at Australia to see it’s perfectly possible to have meaningful competition outside the NRL. 

[Fevrover]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

Well, there’d be no opportunity to get towelled in Super League after winning it. I get that. 

But you only have to look at Australia to see it’s perfectly possible to have meaningful competition outside the NRL. 

Different mind set in Australian sport to us,SL was formed to get us on an equal footing to Australia and New Zealand   nearly 30 years later we're no more nearer.

[Spidey]

19 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Different mind set in Australian sport to us,SL was formed to get us on an equal footing to Australia and New Zealand   nearly 30 years later we're no more nearer.

I don’t think that was the only reason for SL’s formation

[Fevrover]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I don’t think that was the only reason for SL’s formation

I agree but it was one of the main reasons.

[Man of Kent]

31 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Different mind set in Australian sport to us,SL was formed to get us on an equal footing to Australia and New Zealand   nearly 30 years later we're no more nearer.

Not sure that’s right. I thought the original idea was an elite division of ‘super’ clubs (hence the merger idea) for TV. 

Anyway, I totally understand your POV and if I was a Fev fan I’d agree with you.

But from my POV the current system is illusory and adds very little to Super League. Arguably it detracts from it with the likes of Leigh jizzing money on SL-quality players in the Championship for a shot at finishing 11th.

This is not prejudice against Fev, it’s more that the system is so loaded against promoted sides that’s it’s barely worth it. And that’s before the grading system comes in that will make it harder for you.

[Fevrover]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Not sure that’s right. I thought the original idea was an elite division of ‘super’ clubs (hence the merger idea) for TV. 

Anyway, I totally understand your POV and if I was a Fev fan I’d agree with you.

But from my POV the current system is illusory and adds very little to Super League. Arguably it detracts from it with the likes of Leigh jizzing money on SL-quality players in the Championship for a shot at finishing 11th.

This is not prejudice against Fev, it’s more that the system is so loaded against promoted sides that’s it’s barely worth it. And that’s before the grading system comes in that will make it harder for you.

I can see what you're saying in most of your points but we have to try and have something to aim for. 

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

I can see what you're saying in most of your points but we have to try and have something to aim for. 

Well, I have offered my solution. Meaningful competition with trophies (and Challenge Cup games). It won’t please everyone, I accept that. 

[Daft old hooker]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, this is the crux of it. We’re gradually moving towards a closed shop Super League and other clubs may be above you in the pecking order.

The real question will become: what‘s the point of a club like Featherstone Rovers if it’s excluded from Super League? There’s two options: fold or be a damn good semi-pro club that develops players and wins trophies. I think the second option is realistically where Fev’s future lies. 

Just shows how little you know about rugby if we move to a closed shop Super League again there won’t be a game outside it.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Daft old hooker said:

Just shows how little you know about rugby if we move to a closed shop Super League again there won’t be a game outside it.

Self-evident nonsense. 

[Daft old hooker]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Self-evident nonsense. 

Don’t put yourself down like that 

[redjonn]

10 hours ago, Michael Bates said:

It sounds like a plan but one that can't really be implemented mid season and especially with the Newcastle fixture being a late(ish) reversal of fixture. How do you not annoy people that have bought a full price season ticket by then deciding you can have 4 games for £40 for example. You'll just turn people off buying season tickets for the next season.

yep, some and maybe many would be annoyed. Then again that restricts any promotional offer you put in place. Guess its a case of planning early and being transparent.

Its happens in many retail situations or annual membership schemes. e.g. I buy every year a annual membership to RHS Gardens.  Sometimes they do special discounts after my renewal or do free entry days - I guess I understand why they are doing it and ultimately the more revenue they gain or attracting future memberships I benefit down the line with the "normal" membership being less than it would otherwise. That is when I think "beyond the end of my nose" at the immediate annoyance.

 

 

[Chris Taylor]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, this is the crux of it. We’re gradually moving towards a closed shop Super League and other clubs may be above you in the pecking order.

The real question will become: what‘s the point of a club like Featherstone Rovers if it’s excluded from Super League? There’s two options: fold or be a damn good semi-pro club that develops players and wins trophies. I think the second option is realistically where Fev’s future lies. 

What's the point of a club like Featherstone if excluded from Super League?

Why is that even a question? Featherstone, like many other clubs have rich-history in the sport and has an awful lot of things that it can and should be proud of - especially within the community roots.

What's the point of any team/competition below Super League? That is a far better question.

It becomes meaningless and just a bunch of glorified friendlies. The interest in the competition decreases, fans interest lessens and commercial opportunities also decrease - is that what the game is looking for?

Perhaps it may mean Super League clubs will look at the longer-term future a little more, but going on past evidence from the licensing period, I would suggest not.

What Format Would You Suggest?

All clubs within the game provide some sort of value and shouldn't be devalued based on crowds or where they are based. 

The game needs to grow, both at club and international level and to do that quite simply it needs to increase the number of clubs in the top division over a period of time without relegating a team - so by end of 4 seasons times there would be 16 teams in the top division. Then at this point relegation should be re-introduced on the basis of 1-up 1-down. 

This would tie in with IMG's proposal of removing magic weekend, loop fixtures, etc.

What if Featherstone missed out on Super League?

So be-it, if this is done by results on the pitch.

Should There Be Minimum Standards

Absolutely, each and every club should be aiming to improve standards, growing different types of income. 

Can that happen with Promotion and Relegation?

Of course it can, it happens in football and other sports in England - it just requires strong leadership and clubs commit too it.

Other discussion in this thread

 Based on attendance, let's look at the decline of crowds in the top tier before criticising a team that has grown it's average attendance over the last 15 to 20 years.

These top-tier super teams are the ones to poke at before Featherstone. How many teams in that list has seen their average crowds decrease? Far too many! 

But has anybody actually tried to understand why they have decreased? What actually works? How many teams actually engage with their supporters and understand what they enjoy/not enjoy about there experience.

Does anybody poke fun at Bournemouth in the premier league for having an average attendance of 11k? No. 

[Man of Kent]

8 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

 What's the point of a club like Featherstone if excluded from Super League?

Why is that even a question? Featherstone, like many other clubs have rich-history in the sport and has an awful lot of things that it can and should be proud of - especially within the community roots.

What's the point of any team/competition below Super League? That is a far better question.

It becomes meaningless and just a bunch of glorified friendlies. The interest in the competition decreases, fans interest lessens and commercial opportunities also decrease - is that what the game is looking for?

Perhaps it may mean Super League clubs will look at the longer-term future a little more, but going on past evidence from the licensing period, I would suggest not.

What Format Would You Suggest?

All clubs within the game provide some sort of value and shouldn't be devalued based on crowds or where they are based. 

The game needs to grow, both at club and international level and to do that quite simply it needs to increase the number of clubs in the top division over a period of time without relegating a team - so by end of 4 seasons times there would be 16 teams in the top division. Then at this point relegation should be re-introduced on the basis of 1-up 1-down. 

This would tie in with IMG's proposal of removing magic weekend, loop fixtures, etc.

What if Featherstone missed out on Super League?

So be-it, if this is done by results on the pitch.

Should There Be Minimum Standards

Absolutely, each and every club should be aiming to improve standards, growing different types of income. 

Can that happen with Promotion and Relegation?

Of course it can, it happens in football and other sports in England - it just requires strong leadership and clubs commit too it.

Other discussion in this thread

 Based on attendance, let's look at the decline of crowds in the top tier before criticising a team that has grown it's average attendance over the last 15 to 20 years.

These top-tier super teams are the ones to poke at before Featherstone. How many teams in that list has seen their average crowds decrease? Far too many! 

But has anybody actually tried to understand why they have decreased? What actually works? How many teams actually engage with their supporters and understand what they enjoy/not enjoy about there experience.

Does anybody poke fun at Bournemouth in the premier league for having an average attendance of 11k? No. 

Comparisons with football are moot because we’re moving away from straight P&R towards an exclusionary system based on a grading system.

Fev are located in a pit village/tiny town near Pontefract and will be left further behind in the IMG era as they are not (and never will be) capable of being a sustainably competitive Super League club.

If you don’t believe me, watch how they go in 2024 if promoted. Truth can be painful.

[Chris Taylor]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Fev are located in a pit village/tiny town near Pontefract and will be left further behind in the IMG era as they are not (and never will be) capable of being a sustainably competitive Super League club.

If you don’t believe me, watch how they go in 2024 if promoted. Truth can be painful.

Take a look at the locations of each rugby league club and they are based in an industrial town - that's how the game was built up and grew. 

Are you suggesting that they are all in a similar position to Featherstone or are you just focussing on Featherstone because you don't like them?

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Chris Taylor said:

Take a look at the locations of each rugby league club and they are based in an industrial town - that's how the game was built up and grew. 

Are you suggesting that they are all in a similar position to Featherstone or are you just focussing on Featherstone because you don't like them?

I am pointing out simple demographics. If it wasn't for the rugby club, most people wouldn't even have heard of Featherstone.

With the exception of Castleford, that is not the case for any other Super League club. 

Places like Warrington, Hull, Perpignan, Wigan, St Helens, Salford, Leeds, Huddersfield and Wakefield are sizeable towns/cities. Are you really saying Featherstone is comparable to these places?