Melbourne Storm celebrating their 5th Victorian debutante

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Another thread reminded me of this fact. Greg Eden has played in the NRL 

It's a little bewildering some of the English signings NRL clubs have made in the past, particularly in the backs.

It is highly debateable how good SL players the likes of Eden, Sarginson and Gildart actually were and I'm sure practically all English fans would have said these players would flop. It was no surprise when they did. Similarly Watkins was woeful towards the end of his time and way past his best at Leeds before going to the NRL. As was Hall who went about 5 years past his prime.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Damien

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 

This does to be the accepted wisdom, the Storm name, Storm colours, Storm involvement. Someone on here said the Storm relied for far too long on recruiting out of Qld-and I`d add NZ - and they were probably right.

I`d add one other thing here for all those that I`ve noticed have been knocking the Storm`s development success rate, I believe that these things may tend to be exponential up to a point. Getting that initial critical mass engagement is the hard part, once the game reaches that point, engagement will be a lot easier after that. Hopefully Rugby League in Victoria has now reached that point.

I think they are fair observations.  I think you are right with your critical mass engagement point too. The more people that play and the more clubs there are the easier everything becomes. Standards, intensity etc all increase too as you go more from that getting people playing the game, development type situation to something that also encompasses more intense and competitive levels.

[Spidey]

51 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's a little bewildering some of the English signings NRL clubs have made in the past, particularly in the backs.

It is highly debateable how good SL players the likes of Eden, Sarginson and Gildart actually were and I'm sure practically all English fans would have said these players would flop. It was no surprise when they did. Similarly Watkins was woeful towards the end of his time and way past his best at Leeds before going to the NRL. As was Hall who went about 5 years past his prime.

This is why I struggle with the stance of some to 100% defend the NRL at all times and it’s automatically better than anything that happens in England. We know all know the flaws over here but there’s plenty there also

[The Masked Poster]

Would it be better to have Melbourne fielding a 99% Victorian side yet playing in front of paltry crowds and propping up the table before possibly folding, or the successful (and consistent so for 20+ years) side we see today? 
I’d say the latter. Sometimes it’s the longer game that’s more important. 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Would it be better to have Melbourne fielding a 99% Victorian side yet playing in front of paltry crowds and propping up the table before possibly folding, or the successful (and consistent so for 20+ years) side we see today? 
I’d say the latter. Sometimes it’s the longer game that’s more important. 

It's not a binary choice.

[Pulga]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not a binary choice.

You're right but having no locally developed players doesn't matter at all.

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

It's not a binary choice.

Well you say that, and to be fair you're correct, it isn't.

But reading some of the reactions and the consensus by many that it's just not good enough, I'd say that their overall success is more important than how many locals they have playing for them. 

How many Geordie accents are there in the Newcastle United first team currently? 

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Well you say that, and to be fair you're correct, it isn't.

But reading some of the reactions and the consensus by many that it's just not good enough, I'd say that their overall success is more important than how many locals they have playing for them. 

How many Geordie accents are there in the Newcastle United first team currently? 

But Football is a religion, played widely and is well developed in Newcastle. They have an academy and would invest heavily in youth, as do most Football teams. Its not through a lack of trying that there aren't more Geordies in the team, its just that the very nature of Football these days and the money in the Premier League means that few home grown players make it anywhere. It isn't like there is a huge local Melbourne RL scene and players are simply not making it. If there was that scene then I find it hard to believe we wouldn't have considerably more doing so.

Again this is going back to the Storm being created and backed by News Limited and success was paramount with little thought to actually developing RL in the region. That does seem to have changed in recent years and the Storm seem to be taking things much more seriously.

[The Masked Poster]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

But Football is a religion, played widely and is well developed in Newcastle. They have an academy and would invest heavily in youth, as do most Football teams. Its not through a lack of trying that there aren't more Geordies in the team, its just that the very nature of Football these days and the money in the Premier League means that few home grown players make it anywhere. It isn't like there is a huge local Melbourne RL scene and players are simply not making it. If there was that scene then I find it hard to believe we wouldn't have considerably more doing so.

Again this is going back to the Storm being created and backed by News Limited and success was paramount with little thought to actually developing RL in the region. That does seem to have changed in recent years and the Storm seem to be taking things much more seriously.

I actually agree with you overall and having family in Newcastle I’m well aware of how deep football runs there. 

But the reversal of not caring where players are from sort of illustrates my point. Newcastle have had a large, dedicated fan base with no real success since 1969 (IIRC). Players like Jackie Milburn or Alan Shearer are almost gods up there. But should Newcastle United win the PL, I suspect 99.5% of their fans wouldn’t give a monkeys where the players who succeeded come from. The ones I’ve spoken to seem to have an attitude of “we don’t need to prove anything about loyalty, we want some trophies”. 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I actually agree with you overall and having family in Newcastle I’m well aware of how deep football runs there. 

But the reversal of not caring where players are from sort of illustrates my point. Newcastle have had a large, dedicated fan base with no real success since 1969 (IIRC). Players like Jackie Milburn or Alan Shearer are almost gods up there. But should Newcastle United win the PL, I suspect 99.5% of their fans wouldn’t give a monkeys where the players who succeeded come from. The ones I’ve spoken to seem to have an attitude of “we don’t need to prove anything about loyalty, we want some trophies”. 

Newcastle fans won't care - although the local paper reckons six of the squad are Geordies.

And, you're right, Melbourne fans shouldn't care about where their players come from.

But rugby league fans, people who want rugby league to grow and succeed, really should care about what is being done to increase participation, provide decent player pathways and all that stuff.

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I actually agree with you overall and having family in Newcastle I’m well aware of how deep football runs there. 

But the reversal of not caring where players are from sort of illustrates my point. Newcastle have had a large, dedicated fan base with no real success since 1969 (IIRC). Players like Jackie Milburn or Alan Shearer are almost gods up there. But should Newcastle United win the PL, I suspect 99.5% of their fans wouldn’t give a monkeys where the players who succeeded come from. The ones I’ve spoken to seem to have an attitude of “we don’t need to prove anything about loyalty, we want some trophies”. 

I think that Football is big enough and strong enough to have that attitude. It is a true worldwide game with players and fans everywhere. A lack of either isn't going to be an issue for the foreseeable future. There is pretty much no where in the UK where a half decent top flight club couldn't draw a big crowd, stadium permitting.

I don't think RL or its clubs can have that attitude, it needs to work as hard as it can for players and fans. I agree that fans probably don't care. However cultivating a domestic scene and investing in it can only create more fans, players and a stronger club and game. Around a quarter of Australia's population reside in Victoria so it should be seen as being important to any RL fan for the sport to get a piece of that.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Damien

[Pulga]

54 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

But rugby league fans, people who want rugby league to grow and succeed, really should care about what is being done to increase participation, provide decent player pathways and all that stuff.

It's not like any of that isn't being done. I think Victoria is having one of their biggest ever years at the grassroots. But it's going to take generations to produce players.

[Pulga]

50 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think that Football is big enough and strong enough to have that attitude. It is a true worldwide game with players and fans everywhere. A lack of either isn't going to be an issue for the foreseeable future. There is pretty much no where in the UK where a half decent top flight club couldn't draw a big crowd, stadium permitting.

I don't think RL or its clubs can have that attitude, it needs to work as hard as it can for players and fans. I agree that fans probably don't care. However cultivating a domestic scene and investing in it can only create more fans, players and a stronger club and game. Around a quarter of Australia's population reside in Victoria so it should be seen as being important to any RL fan for the sport to get a piece of that.

That's a very English RL viewpoint where your local club could (only) hypothetically climb the ladder to SL. Some NRL clubs don't have a focus on juniors and make it work. That's professional sport. The Storm have demonstrated that they are an elite club in everything that is important.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Pulga said:

That's a very English RL viewpoint where your local club could (only) hypothetically climb the ladder to SL. Some NRL clubs don't have a focus on juniors and make it work. That's professional sport. The Storm have demonstrated that they are an elite club in everything that is important.

It is literally nothing to do with that. What a bizarre take.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Damien

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Newcastle fans won't care - although the local paper reckons six of the squad are Geordies.

And, you're right, Melbourne fans shouldn't care about where their players come from.

But rugby league fans, people who want rugby league to grow and succeed, really should care about what is being done to increase participation, provide decent player pathways and all that stuff.

Yes that’s also fair enough and is important. But without a successful and well run side like Melbourne, all that is sort of by the by. 

Take Hemel Hempstead for instance. 40+ years of doing things organically and the “right way” but to what end? (That is absolutely not a criticism of HH)

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I think that Football is big enough and strong enough to have that attitude. It is a true worldwide game with players and fans everywhere. A lack of either isn't going to be an issue for the foreseeable future. There is pretty much no where in the UK where a half decent top flight club couldn't draw a big crowd, stadium permitting.

I don't think RL or its clubs can have that attitude, it needs to work as hard as it can for players and fans. I agree that fans probably don't care. However cultivating a domestic scene and investing in it can only create more fans, players and a stronger club and game. Around a quarter of Australia's population reside in Victoria so it should be seen as being important to any RL fan for the sport to get a piece of that.

Agreed

[Copa]

On 03/09/2023 at 21:53, The Masked Poster said:

 Players like Jackie Milburn or Alan Shearer are almost gods up there. 

I made a room go quiet in Newcastle when I asked “Who’s Alan Shearer?”.

It reminded me of Wally Lewis’ status in Brisbane and Queensland.

[The Rocket]

Here comes another one, here it comes again....

Storm sign impressive young forward to long-term deal - NRL News - Zero Tackle

"His debut in the competition came after the Melbourne local progressed through the club's SG Ball U19s side"

 

[Eddie]

On 03/09/2023 at 11:32, The Masked Poster said:

Well you say that, and to be fair you're correct, it isn't.

But reading some of the reactions and the consensus by many that it's just not good enough, I'd say that their overall success is more important than how many locals they have playing for them. 

How many Geordie accents are there in the Newcastle United first team currently? 

How many Geordies are currently playing professional football though, I’d wager it’s well over 100. 

[The Masked Poster]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

How many Geordies are currently playing professional football though, I’d wager it’s well over 100. 

If you include all divisions, then it's probably way more. But the point was about players representing their home town or area, something that is becoming less cared about than in the past. As long as the players are coming through from Victoria - even if slowly -that can only help matters. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

If you include all divisions, then it's probably way more. But the point was about players representing their home town or area, something that is becoming less cared about than in the past. As long as the players are coming through from Victoria - even if slowly -that can only help matters. 

Agreed, are there more and more players from Victoria now? 

[Dunbar]

On 31/08/2023 at 20:25, gingerjon said:

It is good that you didn't apologise.

He's like me, I never apologise. I'm sorry, that's just the way I am.