Wigan v Penrith World Club challenge at the JJB

[Sports Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

If it didn't fall on the English club to put all of this on, pay for it and make it work then maybe we could go bigger. The Aussies, whether that is the generally reluctant club or NRL, really need to step up to go bigger and move it to the next level.

What the WCC lacks most is a governor. That the fixture does come down so much to the home team to organise, promote and underwrite it, is in my opinion why the fixture has not exceeded its still very average stature.

The event is a great product which ideally the reigns would be handed to the IRL. An annual event for the game’s world body portfolio to commercialise. It is a natural fit. Whether the IRL has the capacity and resources to grow this event remains to be seen.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

What the WCC lacks most is a governor. That the fixture does come down so much to the home team to organise, promote and underwrite it, is in my opinion why the fixture has not exceeded its still very average stature.

The event is a great product which ideally the reigns would be handed to the IRL. An annual event for the game’s world body portfolio to commercialise. It is a natural fit. Whether the IRL has the capacity and resources to grow this event remains to be seen.

I don't see what it has to do with the IRL at all or what they would bring to the table. English clubs and the RFL are fully bought into it, all we need is the NRL to do the same. The IRL doing it and the NRL having the same attitude only has the same result anyway. 

[Sports Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't see what it has to do with the IRL at all or what they would bring to the table. English clubs and the RFL are fully bought into it, all we need is the NRL to do the same. The IRL doing it and the NRL having the same attitude only has the same result anyway. 

If nothing else, IRL brings neutral governance, application and a clearer line for accountability.

What exactly would you have had the Panthers and NRL have done differently on this occasion or last year’s?

[WN83]

The NRL listing it as a pre season challenge fixture last year doesn’t exactly help sell the event. Penrith losing last year and still not feeling burned enough to play a warm up fixture or even travel to the UK more than 7 days in advance of the fixture this year also gives the impression it’s just not important to them. 
 

If that’s the importance/prestige the NRL and the participating club places on the fixture, it’s not surprising a woeful crowd turned out in Australia last year. 

[Aerosaint]

8 minutes ago, WN83 said:

The NRL listing it as a pre season challenge fixture last year doesn’t exactly help sell the event. Penrith losing last year and still not feeling burned enough to play a warm up fixture or even travel to the UK more than 7 days in advance of the fixture this year also gives the impression it’s just not important to them. 
 

If that’s the importance/prestige the NRL and the participating club places on the fixture, it’s not surprising a woeful crowd turned out in Australia last year. 

I don't think it was listed by NRL as a 'pre season challenge' before the defeat last year. If Penrith win thos year, I fully expect the highlights reel to be titled: WCC.

[Damien]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

If nothing else, IRL brings neutral governance, application and a clearer line for accountability.

What exactly would you have had the Panthers and NRL have done differently on this occasion or last year’s?

The discussion was about playing in bigger stadiums and elevating the event. To do that requires buy in from all parties, real commitment and sharing the cost. It shouldn't be up to the English club to shoulder the burden, take all the risks and the NRL club just turn up all expenses paid and guaranteed. Until that changes then don't be surprised if a club like Wigan play it at home at a 25k stadium. 

Ideally a fixed place in the calendar would exist too. I don't think the end of season is realistic, for various reasons, but a fixed mid season slot should certainly be possible. It would help build the event tremendously and elevate it. The very start of the season has too much of a pre-season feel with too many excuses.

I'm not even against the IRL governing it per se. However it does not change any of the above, and it would still fall on clubs or the governing bodies to do everything, as per the World Cup. They would have absolutely no power and its just a token change.

[Anita Bath]

No team will be willing to travel around the globe for a single game mid season. Even a neutral venue ‘half’ way such as qatar would be a stretch and would reduce the commercial value.

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

No team will be willing to travel around the globe for a single game mid season. Even a neutral venue ‘half’ way such as qatar would be a stretch and would reduce the commercial value.

It's been done before and I'm absolutely sure an English club would. An Aussie side probably would be reluctant but that's just their attitude anyway regardless.

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's been done before and I'm absolutely sure an English club would. An Aussie side probably would be reluctant but that's just their attitude anyway regardless.

That’s unfair. It’s much easier for British sides to disrupt their season with opportunities to catch matches up on Challenge Cup or International weekends. NRL sides haven’t played Cup tournaments since the 80s or early 90s and when they did, they were mid week, without disruption to the league.

The British game has a history and acceptance of catch up fixtures. The Australian game doesn’t. I wouldn’t expect it to start for the sake of a mid season match between the Champions of 6 - 9 months ago.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

The discussion was about playing in bigger stadiums and elevating the event. To do that requires buy in from all parties, real commitment and sharing the cost. It shouldn't be up to the English club to shoulder the burden, take all the risks and the NRL club just turn up all expenses paid and guaranteed. Until that changes then don't be surprised if a club like Wigan play it at home at a 25k stadium. 

I simply asked you what you expect the NRL or Panthers to have done differently these last two seasons. Surely you have a better idea on that than having the Panthers pay for their own flights and accomodation.

Edited February 17 by Sports Prophet

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

That’s unfair. It’s much easier for British sides to disrupt their season with opportunities to catch matches up on Challenge Cup or International weekends. NRL sides haven’t played Cup tournaments since the 80s or early 90s and when they did, they were mid week, without disruption to the league.

The British game has a history and acceptance of catch up fixtures. The Australian game doesn’t. I wouldn’t expect it to start for the sake of a mid season match between the Champions of 6 - 9 months ago.

It's not unfair, it's exactly the same. The British game would have to set aside a weekend just as the asustralian game would. There is no difference there.

Edited February 17 by Damien

[Anita Bath]

32 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not unfair fair, it's exactly the same. The British game would have to set aside a weekend just as the asustralian game would. There is no difference there.

Not just a case of fitting the game in but the impact of the travel x 2 on the playing staff. The NRL have organised fixtures to ensure that the clubs going to vegas have a weekend off on their return and that is for a 15 hour flight, considerably less than the journey to/from UK. They are starting the season a week earlier to accomodate this.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

That’s unfair. It’s much easier for British sides to disrupt their season with opportunities to catch matches up on Challenge Cup or International weekends. NRL sides haven’t played Cup tournaments since the 80s or early 90s and when they did, they were mid week, without disruption to the league.

The British game has a history and acceptance of catch up fixtures. The Australian game doesn’t. I wouldn’t expect it to start for the sake of a mid season match between the Champions of 6 - 9 months ago.

The impacted Australian team could start their season a week or two earlier to take into account a mid season disruption. If they were truly interested - but they’re not.  Don’t claim it’s unfair - it’s simply unwillingness- they do the bare minimum where they can for this game

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The impacted Australian team could start their season a week or two earlier to take into account a mid season disruption. If they were truly interested - but they’re not.  Don’t claim it’s unfair - it’s simply unwillingness- they do the bare minimum where they can for this game

Absolutely, none of this is complicated. It is the will that is lacking and until that changes the event will continue as is.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

The impacted Australian team could start their season a week or two earlier to take into account a mid season disruption. If they were truly interested - but they’re not.  Don’t claim it’s unfair - it’s simply unwillingness- they do the bare minimum where they can for this game

It would take an opponent for them to start earlier. So now that idea impacts another club with no benefit from the game.

[Dunbar]

I would have thought with the NRL back to an odd number of teams and so one team getting a bye week each week, a mid year WCC would be easier logistically for the NRL than Super League.

A Thursday fixture, a bye week and then a Sunday fixture is a decent window to play a game away from Australia.

Edited February 17 by Dunbar

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

I would have thought with the NRL back to an odd number of teams and so one team getting a bye week each week, a mid year WCC would be easier logistically for the NRL than Super League.

A Thursday fixture, a by week and then a Sunday fixture is a decent window to play a game away from Australia.

Yes it's more than possible if the will is there.

[Sports Prophet]

Just now, Dunbar said:

I would have thought with the NRL back to an odd number of teams and so one team getting a bye week each week, a mid year WCC would be easier logistically for the NRL than Super League.

A Thursday fixture, a by week and then a Sunday fixture is a decent window to play a game away from Australia.

I agree, it’s easier at the moment, but this is a short term solution as the long aim is for an even number of clubs.

Personally, I think mid season for a one off fixture is not great anyway. A reigning premier may well be behind the 8 ball already in their defence and a WCC could compromise that defence. A team may be less enthused than another stage to give their whole in a WCC.

If it wants to be serious, then it has to be at the end of the year, before the internationals. Any other iteration in my mind diminishes the product from being the 60k+ fixture we all want it to be.

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I agree, it’s easier at the moment, but this is a short term solution as the long aim is for an even number of clubs.

Personally, I think mid season for a one off fixture is not great anyway. A reigning premier may well be behind the 8 ball already in their defence and a WCC could compromise that defence. A team may be less enthused than another stage to give their whole in a WCC.

If it wants to be serious, then it has to be at the end of the year, before the internationals. Any other iteration in my mind diminishes the product from being the 60k+ fixture we all want it to be.

I agree that a long term approach is favourable.

I'm not sure we can find a better time than it is played now.  I would certainly not want to impact the (already too short) international window at the end of the year.

As long as we commit to the fixture for the long term with the UK and Australia as alternate venues then it is all good.

This Penrith team is being hailed as one of the best ever and if they get humbled again by the Super League champions then just maybe the Aussies will want to see this game built upon.

[Damien]

25 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I agree, it’s easier at the moment, but this is a short term solution as the long aim is for an even number of clubs.

Personally, I think mid season for a one off fixture is not great anyway. A reigning premier may well be behind the 8 ball already in their defence and a WCC could compromise that defence. A team may be less enthused than another stage to give their whole in a WCC.

If it wants to be serious, then it has to be at the end of the year, before the internationals. Any other iteration in my mind diminishes the product from being the 60k+ fixture we all want it to be.

Easily the best attendance ever for this fixture was for a mid season fixture for the Aussies.

Edited February 17 by Damien

[Sports Prophet]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

I agree that a long term approach is favourable.

I'm not sure we can find a better time than it is played now.  I would certainly not want to impact the (already too short) international window at the end of the year.

As long as we commit to the fixture for the long term with the UK and Australia as alternate venues then it is all good.

This Penrith team is being hailed as one of the best ever and if they get humbled again by the Super League champions then just maybe the Aussies will want to see this game built upon.

I hope Penrith lose. I almost always do I hope that loss helps increase the profile of SL among the Aus RL public.

I hope a way can be found to have meaningful cross hemisphere club fixtures. I don’t agree pre-season is a place for it, unless it’s a full blown pre-season competition featuring all clubs from the NRL and SL.

The title of World Championship really should be featuring players and teams when they are at their peak. I have seen enough footy this weekend in both hemispheres to know, we do not see “best in the world footy” in the pre-season.

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

I hope Penrith lose. I almost always do I hope that loss helps increase the profile of SL among the Aus RL public.

I hope a way can be found to have meaningful cross hemisphere club fixtures. I don’t agree pre-season is a place for it, unless it’s a full blown pre-season competition featuring all clubs from the NRL and SL.

The title of World Championship really should be featuring players and teams when they are at their peak. I have seen enough footy this weekend in both hemispheres to know, we do not see “best in the world footy” in the pre-season.

It is just a matter of pragmatism.

Everyone has their own view but for me international national competition is the highest priority for the game and the logistics mid year are challenging.

International club competitions, regular league seasons and then nation based internationals at the end of the year works for me.

Any issues in timing are a distant second to the game actually deciding these things and fully committing to them for a long term cycle.

[Sports Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

Easily the best attendance ever for this fixture was for a mid season fixture for the Aussies.

Times have changed @Damien, there is no way in this age the Aussie fans would consider a mid season WCC as acceptable.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

16 hours ago, WN83 said:

The NRL listing it as a pre season challenge fixture last year doesn’t exactly help sell the event. Penrith losing last year and still not feeling burned enough to play a warm up fixture or even travel to the UK more than 7 days in advance of the fixture this year also gives the impression it’s just not important to them. 
 

If that’s the importance/prestige the NRL and the participating club places on the fixture, it’s not surprising a woeful crowd turned out in Australia last year. 

Giving them another spanking might help 

Over to you Pies

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Times have changed @Damien, there is no way in this age the Aussie fans would consider a mid season WCC as acceptable.

That's simply just your opinion. There is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be.