Ireland, Scotland, Italy and Lebanon demotion

[RP London]

On 18/03/2024 at 05:23, Farmduck said:

Scotland should have been punted 10 years ago. One of the most basic requirements is having a regular comp of at least 4 adult teams. I don't know how often they've managed that. According to their site they didn't have a player of the year in 2020 or 2021 and they haven't announced the 2022 winner yet. Their 2023 season consisted of 9 games. Not 9 rounds, a total of 9 games.

I believe I won it in 2022 when we went on holiday and me and my son were spotted chucking a ball around on the beach. He won the young player.. we arent even that proud of it!

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, damp squib said:

The Ireland-based board is most likely in place precisely because it does what it is told by the people with all the power in England.

I have no doubt that most of the people in England involved in Rugby League Ireland did not have malign intentions but they have effectively hijacked a national sporting organisation and are using it for the benefit of English Rugby League players of Irish descent and to the detriment of the sport and it's players in Ireland.

Absolutely. I understand that people with Irish grandparents get a kick out of connecting with their heritage but that should never be at the expense of actually developing the game in Ireland for people that live in Ireland. The current situation is absolutely detrimental to the game in Ireland.

[iangidds]

Rugby union saw the bigger picture and went from been a Garrison game to a truly national sport ; there will only be one code from now as they have done the hard work 

[Gomersall]

On 18/03/2024 at 17:31, Gomersall said:

Do Greece have any youth teams? It’s news to me if they do.

I spoke too soon.

 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, iangidds said:

Rugby union saw the bigger picture and went from been a Garrison game to a truly national sport ; there will only be one code from now as they have done the hard work 

This really isn't the case at all. RU in Ireland has always been niche, only played in certain schools, and with a limited playing base and following. Out of the main pockets there may be only a couple of small clubs in an entire county. Thats practically the same as its always been and it still lags way behind other sports. General sports fans watch the national team and that's it.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

This really isn't the case at all. RU in Ireland has always been niche, only played in certain schools, and with a limited playing base and following. Out of the main pockets there may be only a couple of small clubs in an entire county. Thats practically the same as its always been and it still lags way behind other sports. General sports fans watch the national team and that's it.

True. As an example Fermanagh has one Rugby Club but around 20 GAA clubs and 30 football clubs.

However it is a national sport now, high profile and growing in popularity. Many Rugby clubs have multiple men's and women's teams and juniors.

[langpark]

3 hours ago, Gomersall said:

I spoke too soon.

 

Technically, you were still correct, as it says this will be the first one. Let's hope it is a success! 

[langpark]

 

 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, langpark said:

 

 

A lot of words just to say nothing!

[RP London]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

A lot of words just to say nothing!

was just about to say it read like an episode of W1A

[Dave T]

It's confusing as to what Scotland's actual strategy was. If you read the requirements, for full membership you needed 6 clubs, playing 5 games minimum, with an open age and youth team in each club. 

Scotland were miles off that, and tbh it never looked like that was a focus for them. It feels like they should have been focusing on a concentrated geographical area and tapping into existibg sports club infrastructure to piggyback them. 

Instead all the activity seemed focused on things like youth training camps in Wigan or similar. 

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's confusing as to what Scotland's actual strategy was. If you read the requirements, for full membership you needed 6 clubs, playing 5 games minimum, with an open age and youth team in each club. 

Scotland were miles off that, and tbh it never looked like that was a focus for them. It feels like they should have been focusing on a concentrated geographical area and tapping into existibg sports club infrastructure to piggyback them. 

Instead all the activity seemed focused on things like youth training camps in Wigan or similar. 

yep... all the pretty words about interviews, consultations, deep dives etc are pointless when everyone can see that the fundamental issue was that they didnt meet the most basic of requirements and that is the starting point.. 

yes some training camps, letting players try the game etc may be the way to go, but it has to be done in Scotland to build the interest to then set up the clubs etc.. not outside of Scotland. But without clubs or youth teams there is no way back, no matter how many interviews with internal and external stakeholders you want to do that is still the key.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

yep... all the pretty words about interviews, consultations, deep dives etc are pointless when everyone can see that the fundamental issue was that they didnt meet the most basic of requirements and that is the starting point.. 

yes some training camps, letting players try the game etc may be the way to go, but it has to be done in Scotland to build the interest to then set up the clubs etc.. not outside of Scotland. But without clubs or youth teams there is no way back, no matter how many interviews with internal and external stakeholders you want to do that is still the key.

It's clear that the camps were to try and meet the number of registered players, and national team piece, but that's a waste of time without teams. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's clear that the camps were to try and meet the number of registered players, and national team piece, but that's a waste of time without teams. 

exactly.. you can still do that but that is in addition to actually doing the basics.. 

Irish Rugby Union has an Irish Qualified players pathway in the UK (I only know because my son is on it) and it has had players playing for Ireland U20s & U18s this year and has players in the provincial set up and national set up that came through the pathway.. but that is in addition to all the things at home, its to find the extra players as kids that qualify and want to play for them. They take players and put them into academies in the provinces etc.. there would be no point doing any of that if those players got good training and just went off and played for England anyway.. 

Its so simple its ridiculous.. make sure you do the basic things you need to and keep those basic things ticking along, then look outside of those for what can make it all better.. 

 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's clear that the camps were to try and meet the number of registered players, and national team piece, but that's a waste of time without teams. 

Same with Ireland. I hope the IRL aren't gullible enough to count players as being registered if they aren't resident in that country. That is a big stick that they should certainly be using with these countries.

[corkonian77]

12 hours ago, RP London said:

exactly.. you can still do that but that is in addition to actually doing the basics.. 

Irish Rugby Union has an Irish Qualified players pathway in the UK (I only know because my son is on it) and it has had players playing for Ireland U20s & U18s this year and has players in the provincial set up and national set up that came through the pathway.. but that is in addition to all the things at home, its to find the extra players as kids that qualify and want to play for them. They take players and put them into academies in the provinces etc.. there would be no point doing any of that if those players got good training and just went off and played for England anyway.. 

Its so simple its ridiculous.. make sure you do the basic things you need to and keep those basic things ticking along, then look outside of those for what can make it all better.. 

 

Best of luck to your son with his playing  career.  Its a hard journey  and he will need it. 

It kind of could  work if there was a equivalent  of London  Irish  in league.  But that doesn't  exist. 

Mike Haley from Preston  who plays with Munster  Rugby  Union is as Irish as many these guys on Rli pathways program. 

Edited March 27 by corkonian77

[RP London]

9 hours ago, corkonian77 said:

Best of luck to your son with his playing  career.  Its a hard journey  and he will need it. 

It kind of could  work if there was a equivalent  of London  Irish  in league.  But that doesn't  exist. 

Mike Haley from Preston  who plays with Munster  Rugby  Union is as Irish as many these guys on Rli pathways program. 

Thanks mate. I think they did used to have a link into London Irish. The system seems really good and they're really supportive saying all the right things about "outside rugby" careers and studies and that they will find courses for people etc with examples of lads at Uni in Ireland while linked to provinces or apprenticeship courses. Also helping them with UK Unis and keeping in touch with them, they work on the fact they don't really know what your body will be like or how you will mature until you're about 20 so they keep working with you and seem to have good contacts.

My son wants to do some form of Engineering or Physics at Uni and he seems to understand that showing up well and acting well is not only good for his chances with the Rugby but also with their links into Unis in the UK and Ireland and the fact the coach and a "good word" could be a nudge into one if its him or another kid. Hes also really enjoying it and the training days are brilliant. 

The system seems, from the outside, to be really good and everyone I've spoken to speaks volumes of it and how its very different from the England Counties system which still has a "what school do you go to?" attitude in many of the counties. 

Its a system I'd love RL to take on around the country as its a small commitment (they do full training days around the country in the half terms, Monday in the south, tuesday midlands, wednesday north west, thursday north east etc) but the talent it can unearth is massive.