New Tactics

[Tommygilf]

 

[Archie Gordon]

Thanks for this.

I do think we are seeing the #1 role change from a second stand-off focus (e.g. Connor) to a push player with speed and good feet (e.g. Dufty). Not completely clear whether that is because of a particular cohort of players coming through or an actual change in development.

The very best players can still do both IMO - kinda why Dufty and Field are very good but French is probably better.

I do like this new direction - it's basically 'block plays plus'.

[Coggo]

I'd missed the v good Sky Sports article by Megan Wellens. https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12204/13135038/the-super-league-eras-of-evolution-the-entertainers-michael-maguire-woolf-ball-and-the-art-of-the-play-the-ball

More of this sort of (tactical) thing, please. 

[Coggo]

In summary, support runners + deception = tries.

We already knew this, of course, but reassuring to read that the most successful teams are quantifiably playing the 'best' rugby. That doesn't always happen in other sports...

Edited May 24 by Coggo

[Harry Stottle]

What goes round comes round, over 60 years ago at junior school we had a teacher who also taught Rugby League, his philosophy was 'a pass beats a man every time' obviously when delivered and supported properly. 

[The 4 of Us]

A simple game!? 

[Dunbar]

I really enjoyed that article.  And the linked article from Sky Sports.

I'm not 100% sure of the descriptions of the era's as they conflate evolving tactics with just the best teams/players sometimes. 

But certainly the shift from the fast roll downfield with scoots and players finding their fronts (sometimes with little contact) into the era of the wrestle was a huge shift.  Now, with better analytics, coaches are able to see the benefits of effort plays more and more... in both defence and the value of support runners in attack.

The Sky article also provided some insight into something that I have been looking for for some time, which is the speed of the play the ball in Super League and the NRL and the perception of which is 'faster'.

I have long held the view that the ruck of Super League is not behind that of the NRL and joining up that article showing the average play the ball speed in Super League in 2024 with the stats from the NRL, we can see that honours are shared for fastest play the ball between the leagues in 2024.

Penrith Panthers: 3.34 (seconds)

Warrington Wolves: 3.37

St George Dragons: 3.39

Castleford Tigers: 3.41

On the whole though, we need more of this type of analysis to show that the game is massively tactical.

[Sports Prophet]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

…we can see that honours are shared for fastest play the ball between the leagues in 2024.

Penrith Panthers: 3.34 (seconds)

Warrington Wolves: 3.37

St George Dragons: 3.39

Castleford Tigers: 3.41

On the whole though, we need more of this type of analysis to show that the game is massively tactical.

If anything, this tells me a quick play the ball does not correlate with success

[sam4731]

59 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I really enjoyed that article.  And the linked article from Sky Sports.

I'm not 100% sure of the descriptions of the era's as they conflate evolving tactics with just the best teams/players sometimes. 

But certainly the shift from the fast roll downfield with scoots and players finding their fronts (sometimes with little contact) into the era of the wrestle was a huge shift.  Now, with better analytics, coaches are able to see the benefits of effort plays more and more... in both defence and the value of support runners in attack.

The Sky article also provided some insight into something that I have been looking for for some time, which is the speed of the play the ball in Super League and the NRL and the perception of which is 'faster'.

I have long held the view that the ruck of Super League is not behind that of the NRL and joining up that article showing the average play the ball speed in Super League in 2024 with the stats from the NRL, we can see that honours are shared for fastest play the ball between the leagues in 2024.

Penrith Panthers: 3.34 (seconds)

Warrington Wolves: 3.37

St George Dragons: 3.39

Castleford Tigers: 3.41

On the whole though, we need more of this type of analysis to show that the game is massively tactical.

The NRL is streets ahead of Super League. It's just played at a much faster speed.

[Archie Gordon]

58 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

If anything, this tells me a quick play the ball does not correlate with success

Possibly.

Another explanation is that average PTB speed doesn't tell you very much but perhaps the number under 2.2s (using an arbitrary threshold as an example only) does.

As always, averages mask all sorts of interesting things.

[Damien]

It provides a few talking points but I think it's like the author is trying to frame things to fit a conclusion. Much of the history stuff conflates a lot and isn't really saying anything that we didn't already know. I'm not sure if what we see now is really a new tactical change, just an extension of what we have seen the last few years. It's certainly not like some of the stark tactical changes over the previous 3 decades that were pointed out.

The data arguments include a lot of variables. The deception and dummy runner aspect isn't a great deal different. Sure players like Field and Walsh are special from the mismatches that are created but I'm not convinced it is incredibly different than Tomkins did at Wigan a decade ago.  It's more much of the same with different teams utilising the players that they have. Stuff like outside backs making yards has been done plenty of times by the teams that have those players at their disposal. Different teams play different ways to suit the players they have.

Edited May 24 by Damien

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

It provides a few talking points but I think it's like the author is trying to frame things to fit a conclusion. Much of the history stuff conflates a lot and isn't really saying anything that we didn't already know. I'm not sure if what we see now is really a new tactical change, just an extension of what we have seen the last few years. It's certainly not like some of the stark tactical changes over the previous 3 decades that were pointed out.

The data arguments include a lot of variables. The deception and dummy runner aspect isn't a great deal different. Sure players like Field and Walsh are special from the mismatches that are created but I'm not convinced it is incredibly different than Tomkins did at Wigan a decade ago.  It's more much of the same with different teams utilising the players that they have. Stuff like outside backs making yards has been done plenty of times by the teams that have those players at their disposal. Different teams play different ways to suit the players they have.

Absolutely agree with this. 

I found it interesting, and it's good to read articles that try and look a little deeper into the tactics, but I thought there was a lot of weird jargon used, and I just don't agree with the assessment that Leeds used to strangle other teams into submission. I think that undermined a lot of the analysis tbh. 

It was a little all over the place, more like a thinking piece done on the fly, interesting, but not well thought out imo.