Sun 27th Oct: Men's International: England v Samoa KO 2.30pm (BBC Two)

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think it's fairly easy to guess that it was Wilkin...

I'm shocked.

[NRLandSL]

I think bringing the ANZAC test back year is a must. Especially considering it would australia and New Zealand’s only time to play with the tour happening. I saw that Harry Grant was very keen for it to come back. Not sure why they ever got rid of it. 

Could also have Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, PNG play on the same weekend.

Edited October 29, 2024 by NRLandSL

[Father Gascoigne]

13 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

I think bringing the ANZAC test back year is a must. Especially considering it would australia and New Zealand’s only time to play with the tour happening. I saw that Harry Grant was very keen for it to come back. Not sure why they ever got rid of it. 

Could also have Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, PNG play on the same weekend.

The ANZAC Test no longer being played is solely down to the NRL and reasons pertaining to 'player welfare'. 

 

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Father Gascoigne said:

The ANZAC Test no longer being played is solely down to the NRL and reasons pertaining to 'player welfare'. 

 

Indeed. And nothing has changed to bring it back.

[Father Gascoigne]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed. And nothing has changed to bring it back.

Nor will it as long as NRL broadcast rights remain the sun around which everything revolves. Not being critical of the NRL--it accounts for most of my RL consumption--just to say that it is what it is. 

[Click]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think it's fairly easy to guess that it was Wilkin...

I didn't even hear the Tuivasa-Shocking.

I assumed you guys were talking about the comment in the first half after RTS did a kick off and he called him "Tuivasa-Shank" and they all had a little giggle, Noble sounded very pleased with himself.

[StandOffHalf]

12 minutes ago, Click said:

I didn't even hear the Tuivasa-Shocking.

I assumed you guys were talking about the comment in the first half after RTS did a kick off and he called him "Tuivasa-Shank" and they all had a little giggle, Noble sounded very pleased with himself.

I don't know. I was just guessing it was Wilkin, haha.

Those kick-offs from RTS were a bit odd and awkward looking. It was almost as though he was trying to scuff it into the ground and get an England player to fumble.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Father Gascoigne said:

The ANZAC Test no longer being played is solely down to the NRL and reasons pertaining to 'player welfare'. 

It's always difficult to take the player welfare argument when it only applies to the international game and can be altered at will depending how much the RLPA get from the NRL. 

[Father Gascoigne]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's always difficult to take the player welfare argument when it only applies to the international game and can be altered at will depending how much the RLPA get from the NRL. 

True, and with the determination to funnel internationals into a window, an early-season break, as would be the case with Anzac tests, is probably never going to be on the agenda again. Shame. The Anzac round doesn't have the same impact. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

Not sure where to post this, maybe I could start a new thread, but I suspect we will have a lot of evidence in a few weeks that the international game is on the march in terms of TV figures and crowds. It is all looking and sounding extremely positive. Not where we want to end up, but well on the way. 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 28/10/2024 at 02:53, StandOffHalf said:

Perhaps, but I think Moore could have been more proactive in the first half. Blowing 10 6 agains is terrible for the game and just encourages some to don the tin-foil hat of saying that he was giving the home team team a leg-up.

Nip it in the bud; call Luai in and then sit someone down. That's how it should have been reffed, if there was a problem with interference, slowing-down, second efforts, flops.

Alternative scenario after 10 minutes -

Fractious exchanges between Jarome Luai and the Pommy ref. Two Samoans in the bin.

Post-match consensus - 

Liam Moore chose to nip the game in the bud rather than Samoan ruck infringements.

Home refs are in a no-win situation when away teams try it on. Regarding the question of international RL officials, I previously thought stringent neutrality ought to be subordinate to merit. Better to appoint the best refs. Sunday's game and the Tonga series have altered my view. Both P.I. teams would be cleaner at the ruck with an Aussie or Kiwi ref.

[StandOffHalf]

3 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Alternative scenario after 10 minutes -

Fractious exchanges between Jarome Luai and the Pommy ref. Two Samoans in the bin.

Post-match consensus - 

Liam Moore chose to nip the game in the bud rather than Samoan ruck infringements.

Home refs are in a no-win situation when away teams try it on. Regarding the question of international RL officials, I previously thought stringent neutrality ought to be subordinate to merit. Better to appoint the best refs. Sunday's game and the Tonga series have altered my view. Both P.I. teams would be cleaner at the ruck with an Aussie or Kiwi ref.

Fair points, and I'm trying not to pile on Moore. I just found the handling of the first 40 a bit at arm's length and not wanting to act upon what he was obviously calling. I think it would have cleaned up more quickly with a stiff warning in the first quarter.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 28/10/2024 at 07:57, The Masked Poster said:

I had a prior engagement which meant I missed this one but I was in the pub last night and a casual acquaintance I know asked me if I'd seen it? He is a 100% football fan and has always dismissed RL on the occasions I've mentioned it to him. But no, he was actually raving about it, saying he really enjoyed it and to quote him "especially the physical aspect of it, they just don't have that in football any more". 

I'm wary of non-fans praising "the physical aspect" of RL. Can be code for "let's have a larf at thick working-class lumps belting each other".

The game would long-since have been massive in France if "the physical aspect" were the key to success.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think it would have cleaned up more quickly with a stiff warning in the first quarter.

Possibly, possibly not.

The ref, especially a home ref, is acutely conscious of "possibly not" ramifications.

[The Masked Poster]

13 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I'm wary of non-fans praising "the physical aspect" of RL. Can be code for "let's have a larf at thick working-class lumps belting each other".

The game would long-since have been massive in France if "the physical aspect" were the key to success.

I'm only pointing out that it's possible for other people to enjoy a game (and he genuinely did) that regular RL fans might tend to be blasé about, nothing more. He is one of those football fans who miss the days when football involved a bit of physical contact, so that's probably why he enjoyed it? 

And the guy in question was, let me assure you, very very working class and no intellectual. So I think you're tending towards paranoia a bit there. 

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

He is one of those football fans who miss the days when football involved a bit of physical contact, so that's probably why he enjoyed it? 

Sounds perilously close to "Bring Back the Biff".

6 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

And the guy in question was, let me assure you, very very working class and no intellectual. So I think you're tending towards paranoia a bit there. 

Just a general observation, drawing from the lessons of our history, that RL will never really make headway until potential new audiences manage to see beyond "the physical aspect".

6 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

very very working class and no intellectual. So I think you're tending towards paranoia a bit there. 

Very very working-class and very very intellectual are perfectly compatible attributes. Suppositions of mutual exclusivity among the very very working-class tend towards paranoia.

[The Masked Poster]

42 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Sounds perilously close to "Bring Back the Biff".

Just a general observation, drawing from the lessons of our history, that RL will never really make headway until potential new audiences manage to see beyond "the physical aspect".

Very very working-class and very very intellectual are perfectly compatible attributes. Suppositions of mutual exclusivity among the very very working-class tend towards paranoia.

?

I'm talking about one guy in particular, one guy. Tell you what, forget it, he hated the game.

[Click]

23 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

?

I'm talking about one guy in particular, one guy. Tell you what, forget it, he hated the game.

Don't blame you mate  

[unapologetic pedant]

38 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

?

I'm talking about one guy in particular, one guy. Tell you what, forget it, he hated the game.

Tending towards paranoia? 

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Sounds perilously close to "Bring Back the Biff".

Just a general observation, drawing from the lessons of our history, that RL will never really make headway until potential new audiences manage to see beyond "the physical aspect".

Very very working-class and very very intellectual are perfectly compatible attributes. Suppositions of mutual exclusivity among the very very working-class tend towards paranoia.

It is very classist to bracket working-class as automatically being dumb. Thanks for pointing that out.

[The Masked Poster]

38 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Tending towards paranoia? 

You think people can't appreciate a bit of physical contest, without thinking that people will assume that the participants are morons? I think it says more about your own perceptions of RL than anything else. 

You have turned a pleasant surprise about someone randomly enjoying a RL International into some sort of class war. Sorry I spoke. 

[unapologetic pedant]

4 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

You think people can't appreciate a bit of physical contest, without thinking that people will assume that the participants are morons? I think it says more about your own perceptions of RL than anything else. 

You have turned a pleasant surprise about someone randomly enjoying a RL International into some sort of class war. Sorry I spoke. 

You appear to be taking this a lot more seriously than I am.

[unapologetic pedant]

24 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

It is very classist to bracket working-class as automatically being dumb. Thanks for pointing that out.

Glad you agree.

Edit: I thought the above post was sardonic and from @The Masked Poster

Apologies to @StandOffHalf. Sort of.

I'm bailing out before I get more confused.

Edited October 30, 2024 by unapologetic pedant

[Mojo]

On 30/10/2024 at 07:00, StandOffHalf said:

Fair points, and I'm trying not to pile on Moore. I just found the handling of the first 40 a bit at arm's length and not wanting to act upon what he was obviously calling. I think it would have cleaned up more quickly with a stiff warning in the first quarter.

I've said in a previous post the ref let the samoans go a few times by holding the player down too long. But I also thought the Samoans should've got a couple of 6 again calls go their way when the English were doing the same thing. Samoa didn't get any six again calls all game. I do think the ref should've stepped in, stopped the game and have a word with Luai and say "if you slow down anymore tackles I'm putting someone in the bin" and that would've eliminated it straight away.

In terms of the game, I think Samoa put up more of a fight then the tongans last year. The tongans attack last year was terrible. All they did was 5 hit ups and a kick all game and it was too predictable for the English. Maybe that's why the 2nd game is starting to sell out. Fans wants to see a entertaining game. The Samoans bought a bit of flair unfortunately they couldn't defend one bit. I think we'll see a few changes for both teams. I know the samoan team will select the boys that didn't play game 1 to play this week. I hope it's a close game.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I've said in a previous post the ref let the samoans go a few times by holding the player down too long. But I also thought the Samoans should've got a couple of 6 again calls go their way when the English were doing the same thing. Samoa didn't get any six again calls all game. I do think the ref should've stepped in, stopped the game and have a word with Luai and say "if you slow down anymore tackles I'm putting someone in the bin" and that would've eliminated it straight away.

In terms of the game, I think Samoa put up more of a fight then the tongans last year. The tongans attack last year was terrible. All they did was 5 hit ups and a kick all game and it was too predictable for the English. Maybe that's why the 2nd game is starting to sell out. Fans wants to see a entertaining game. The Samoans bought a bit of flair unfortunately they couldn't defend one bit. I think we'll see a few changes for both teams. I know the samoan team will select the boys that didn't play game 1 to play this week. I hope it's a close game.

I don't think England were doing the same thing. Samoa were holding down for a ridiculous amount of time practically every tackle. I can't say I noticed England doing it for anywhere near the same amount of time. England were well on top too so didn't need to slow down the game like that. Samoa looked like they they were clinging on for dear life.