Non League Football

[Eddie]

I know there’s already a football thread but there’s loads of stuff about the premier league etc on there. Does anyone on here follow a non league club?
 

I haven’t watched a premier league game or even MOTD for a long time, it’s almost unrecognisable from when I was a kid, much prefer the lower leagues and non league these days. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Why is a separate thread necessary here?

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I know there’s already a football thread but there’s loads of stuff about the premier league etc on there. Does anyone on here follow a non league club?

I think most of the posts on there are about either Beverley Town or which out of Bexhill United or Hastings United I've seen most recently.

Aberystwyth Town are my one true love, though. And, as ever, it looks like this will be the season we finally, after 30 odd years of fluking it, go down.

Most recent game I was at.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

As @gingerjon points out, there are a lot of posts about Beverley Town on the other thread cos I support them. They are a 9th division side playing in the Northern Counties East League Premier Division. 

[HawkMan]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

 

I haven’t watched a premier league game or even MOTD for a long time, it’s almost unrecognisable from when I was a kid, much prefer the lower leagues and non league these days. 

I'm tempted to say if you don't watch MOTD or Prem how d'you know it's unrecognisable? Apart from that it does depress me when I hear this because it's a myth that the top division was wonderful yesteryear. Played on mud patches mostly with less teams competing for title despite people saying its not competitive now. It is, we have Chelsea, Man City,  Liverpool, Arsenal,  Man Utd and Spurs if they get their act together, plus Villa and Newcastle, the 70s when I grew up it was all Liverpool,  occasional Derby or Forest. We have some of the world's top talent here, players and managers. Presumably you've no idea who Erling Haaland is, or Pep or Klopp, or Salah or Emery, except possibly via news outlets, each to his own of course.

BTW I my youth I used to watch Ilford in the Isthmian league or was it the Athenian League,  can't remember.  When they disappeared I saw a lot of Leyton Orient, now in my 60s I watch on TV, all sorts of leagues,  I have Sky, TNT and Premier,  just sorry that the National League went to DAZN which I'm not getting. Watch Scottish Championship on BBC Scotland too.

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by HawkMan

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

I'm tempted to say if you don't watch MOTD or Prem how d'you know it's unrecognisable? Apart from that it does depress me when I hear this because it's a myth that the top division was wonderful yesteryear. Played on mud patches mostly with less teams competing for title despite people saying its not competitive now. It is, we have Chelsea, Man City,  Liverpool, Arsenal,  Man Utd and Spurs if they get their act together, plus Villa and Newcastle, the 70s when I grew up it was all Liverpool,  occasional Derby or Forest. We have some of the world's top talent here, players and managers. Presumably you've no idea who Erling Haarland is, or Pep or Klopp, or Salah or Emery, except possibly via news outlets, each to his own of course.

BTW I my youth I used to watch Ilford in the Isthmian league or was it the Athenian League,  can't remember.  When they disappeared I saw a lot of Leyton Orient, now in my 60s I watch on TV, all sorts of leagues,  I have Sky, TNT and Premier,  just sorry that the National League went to DAZN which I'm not getting. Watch Scottish Championship on BBC Scotland too.

 

I do know who those people are, I’ve just rarely seen them play and have no interest in them. Obviously everyone has their own opinion but I do think it was better (and in fact wonderful) in the 80s and early 90s as the game wasn’t so dominated by owners’ money and fans could identify with the players, who were basically like them only good at football. I appreciate that you disagree though, millions clearly do. 

[Eddie]

35 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Why is a separate thread necessary here?

You could argue either way, I thought it was worth a separate thread as non league is clearly distinct from the premier league and has a different set of supporters. 

[HawkMan]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I do know who those people are, I’ve just rarely seen them play and have no interest in them. Obviously everyone has their own opinion but I do think it was better (and in fact wonderful) in the 80s and early 90s as the game wasn’t so dominated by owners’ money and fans could identify with the players, who were basically like them only good at football. I appreciate that you disagree though, millions clearly do. 

Just for you Eddie, Erling Haaland,  plays for Man City , a striker, a Norwegian. You possibly don't know but he's very much an old fashioned big lump striker, in 22/23 scored 52 goals , a record. Here's all of them.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

30 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You could argue either way, I thought it was worth a separate thread as non league is clearly distinct from the premier league and has a different set of supporters. 

Not for me.

Ive been a football fan for nearly 50 years and seen every level of play as a punter from the best players in the world to amateurs.

I do detect a bit of inverted snobbery here.

[Gerrumonside ref]

55 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I do know who those people are, I’ve just rarely seen them play and have no interest in them. Obviously everyone has their own opinion but I do think it was better (and in fact wonderful) in the 80s and early 90s as the game wasn’t so dominated by owners’ money and fans could identify with the players, who were basically like them only good at football. I appreciate that you disagree though, millions clearly do. 

I think there’s an aspect of rose tinted glasses when it comes to describing 1980s football.

The brazen overt racism sickeningly targeted at black footballers wasn’t wonderful and was everywhere at every ground big and small.

I’d argue the point that owners money wasn’t behind the rise of Nottingham Forest, Watford, Southampton etc of that era and always present for the top dogs of that time.

Yes, the players were seemingly more earning sums that some working men could match, but given the players make the product I think they’re the least to blame for the current trajectory.

Its far from a bed of roses since the gentrification of professional football in England with many issues some of which are getting worse, but I do think you’re forgetting some basic truths about the past too.

[Josef K]

I love watching football below League2, i have attended a few FC St Helens, St Helens Town matches. Then a few of the lowest of the low that is pub football, i know a few people who play in that league (whatever that league is).
I admire the Refs in the pub football leagues than i do the players, as they only get around £50 for a load of abuse & threats. 
But i was wondering how many full time sides are there below the National League, i know the “Iron - Scunthorpe Utd” are FT, but i don’t know if the likes of Torquay Utd remained full time in the NL South ?. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Not for me.

Ive been a football fan for nearly 50 years and seen every level of play as a punter from the best players in the world to amateurs.

I do detect a bit of inverted snobbery here.

Not really, I’m just not interested in the premier league and prefer non-league, there’s no snobbery about it whatsoever, not sure why you’re trying to create some? 

[Gerrumonside ref]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not really, I’m just not interested in the premier league and prefer non-league, there’s no snobbery about it whatsoever, not sure why you’re trying to create some? 

I’m just responding to your comments.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

One thing that really appeals to me about nonleague football (other than being able to support my hometown team) is how connected you feel to the team as a fan. Before the game you can just chat to officials and club staff in the clubhouse and ask about developments at the club and get all the gossip from the club themselves, and after the game you can chat with the players. 

You also feel much more a part of the game when you're stood at the side of the pitch and can hear all the chat between the players and can hear everything the match officials are saying and every swearword coming out of the manager's mouth (the Bev manager swears A LOT!) 

[Jeff Stein]

8 hours ago, HawkMan said:

BTW I my youth I used to watch Ilford in the Isthmian league or was it the Athenian League,  can't remember.  When they disappeared I saw a lot of Leyton Orient, now in my 60s I watch on TV, all sorts of leagues,  I have Sky, TNT and Premier,  just sorry that the National League went to DAZN which I'm not getting. Watch Scottish Championship on BBC Scotland too.

 

There is an Ilford playing in the Essex Senior League. Not sure if they are related.

[gingerjon]

7 hours ago, Jeff Stein said:

There is an Ilford playing in the Essex Senior League. Not sure if they are related.

The original Ilford were merged into Dagenham & Redbridge. The Essex Senior League side are a phoenix club - on wiki they do have the original side’s honours etc.

[The Masked Poster]

17 hours ago, HawkMan said:

I'm tempted to say if you don't watch MOTD or Prem how d'you know it's unrecognisable? Apart from that it does depress me when I hear this because it's a myth that the top division was wonderful yesteryear. Played on mud patches mostly with less teams competing for title despite people saying its not competitive now. It is, we have Chelsea, Man City,  Liverpool, Arsenal,  Man Utd and Spurs if they get their act together, plus Villa and Newcastle, the 70s when I grew up it was all Liverpool,  occasional Derby or Forest. We have some of the world's top talent here, players and managers. Presumably you've no idea who Erling Haaland is, or Pep or Klopp, or Salah or Emery, except possibly via news outlets, each to his own of course.

From 1970-1980 the Division One title was won by Everton, Arsenal, Derby, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa. The FA cup was won by different clubs too, including Sunderland- and it was extremely prestigious then. 
That's quite a lot of variety. And let's not forget Forest won the European Cup with a full British side, many of them local players. Or Celtic who won it in 1967 with a full side born within close proximity to Parkhead. 
 

I can't argue with your assessment of the current PL as I never watch it but let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments. 

Edited December 31, 2024 by The Masked Poster

[Gerrumonside ref]

49 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

From 1970-1980 the Division One title was won by Everton, Arsenal, Derby, Leeds, Liverpool, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa. The FA cup was won by different clubs too, including Sunderland- and it was extremely prestigious then. 
That's quite a lot of variety. And let's not forget Forest won the European Cup with a full British side, many of them local players. Or Celtic who won it in 1967 with a full side born within close proximity to Parkhead. 
 

I can't argue with your assessment of the current PL as I never watch it but let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments. 

It’s often forgotten that Forest got a lot of serious investment to take them from the 2nd Division to the 1st Division and beyond.

They broke the British transfer record to get Trevor Francis from Birmingham City.

I think the more recent example of Leicester City in the Premier League era was a true underdog story if that’s what you are looking for.

After the maximum wage was axed the story of sustained football success was always written with money in professional football.

[The Masked Poster]

38 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

It’s often forgotten that Forest got a lot of serious investment to take them from the 2nd Division to the 1st Division and beyond.

They broke the British transfer record to get Trevor Francis from Birmingham City.

I think the more recent example of Leicester City in the Premier League era was a true underdog story if that’s what you are looking for.

After the maximum wage was axed the story of sustained football success was always written with money in professional football.

I'm not sure what point you're making, I wasn't looking for anything really just pointing something out.

If you're suggesting Forest bought their way to success, that could be true for all I know. But it's only one club out of those for all that. And besides, I'm fairly sure Brian Clough had a lot to do with it.

Leicester was certainly an underdog story but they were hardly part time amateurs, I seem to remember they had a top manager and considerable investors behind them too. 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

10 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm not sure what point you're making, I wasn't looking for anything really just pointing something out.

If you're suggesting Forest bought their way to success, that could be true for all I know. But it's only one club out of those for all that. And besides, I'm fairly sure Brian Clough had a lot to do with it.

Leicester was certainly an underdog story but they were hardly part time amateurs, I seem to remember they had a top manager and considerable investors behind them too. 

 

Forest spent, Liverpool spent, Everton spent, Leeds spent and Arsenal spent to achieve the sustained success they did in the era you point out.

They didn’t win the First Division by accident and spent to stay at the top.

The only point that can be made is the gap between the haves and have nots in the First Division was not as great as it is now, but I think you’ll find then as now that a handful of clubs dominated through the willingness to spend.

This is not a new thing.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Gerrumonside ref

[The Masked Poster]

4 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Forest spent, Liverpool spent, Everton spent, Leeds spent and Arsenal spent to achieve the sustained success they did in the era you point out.

They didn’t win the First Division by accident and spent to stay at the top.

The only point that can be made is the gap between the haves and have nots in the First Division was not as great as it is now, but I think you’ll find then as now that a handful of clubs dominated through the willingness to spend.

This is not a new thing.

If course they spent, it just wasn't in the same ballpark as today.

It's not something I care passionately about, I'm just pointing out that in that 10 year period, 7 different clubs won the First Division title. Compared with how many since 1994, I'd say that's a decent spread. 

[Eddie]

20 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Forest spent, Liverpool spent, Everton spent, Leeds spent and Arsenal spent to achieve the sustained success they did in the era you point out.

They didn’t win the First Division by accident and spent to stay at the top.

The only point that can be made is the gap between the haves and have nots in the First Division was not as great as it is now, but I think you’ll find then as now that a handful of clubs dominated through the willingness to spend.

This is not a new thing.

Clough took Forest from the second division to European Champions in three seasons and he didn’t spend massively to do it, other than Trevor Francis. It’s possibly the greatest managerial achievement of all time. 
 

Also it’s quite obvious that any well run and well managed club could challenge without spending big (Norwich finished in the top 5 three times in the late 80s / early 90s for example) but that clearly can’t happen now, other than the one off example of Leicester who got relegated not long after. 

[gingerjon]

Around half the current members of the EFL have played in the Premier League. Ipswich have just beaten Chelesa. Manchester United are more likely to be in a relegation battle than playing for European places. Nostalgia, clearly, ain't what it used to be. 

@Eddie- you started the thread but I don't think you've said which, if any, non league team you folllow?

[The Hallucinating Goose]

There's an awful lot of talk of top division football on this thread... 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Clough took Forest from the second division to European Champions in three seasons and he didn’t spend massively to do it, other than Trevor Francis. It’s possibly the greatest managerial achievement of all time. 
 

Also it’s quite obvious that any well run and well managed club could challenge without spending big (Norwich finished in the top 5 three times in the late 80s / early 90s for example) but that clearly can’t happen now, other than the one off example of Leicester who got relegated not long after. 

You’re wrong about Forest here, they were ambitious for the time and did spend relative to that time. 

it might not have been Jack Walker esque but the ambition was there.

Peter Taylor (who often gets forgotten about in the Clough story but was every bit as important in the duo) had a shrewd eye for a player but there’s a reason Clough achieved what he did.

I enjoyed watching the Norwich City of the era you talk about though - enough to merit a Subbuteo team purchase.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Gerrumonside ref