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Halton Stadium in super league 2011


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#21 Padge

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:41 PM

QUOTE (ShotgunGold @ Jul 18 2010, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Could St Helens not take a few games "on the road"?

They're a pretty well-supported club and one of the few names that is immediately identified with the sport.

Two or three games played around the country (especially in the south), marketed right, could do wonders for the club and pick up a few extra fans.

2011 has created a great opportunity for this to happen so why not!

May be they still have to try and lose as little money as possible, they have a core support they don't want to alienate, it would be ###### for season ticket sales which are the bedrock of a clubs finacies for the year along with Sky's donation.


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#22 bewareshadows

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:32 PM

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Salford can manage it why can't Saints???????

i will never ever feel sorry for Saints, they have had years of success and they should have had this all sorted out.

the willows is a bigger hole than KR



I love the way that some fans, beleive that they are completely responsible for their club, obviously it was 1976PMJwires who personally put his hand in his pocket and funds the Wires new stadium.

Or maybe it was actually the work of 1 man who bank rolled the whole project and had very little to do with the Wire fans, but obviously the Saints fans should have sorted their house first, how dare they take a whole 5 years more than Wire to get a new stadium built.

As for licences I see nothing that goes against the licence here. The last round we got a licence based on our current status, which was playing at knowsley road, by the time the next licences are issued Saints will have moved on from the last submission to having a stadium in place, this is only the 2nd year of a 3 year licence. It's only after 2011 that new criteria have to be met.

Is the problem that saints are playing in a ground that does not belong to them, surely we don't want to go down the path of saying that clubs that do not own their ground cannot play in SL, as that covers a large % of clubs.

Wigan rent a ground that is not theirs yet that's not a criteria for throwing them out of SL. Same for quite a few others who either rent from councils or are only part owners of their stadia.

As for the confusion over whether work had begun. The work was on making the access to the stadium possible not actual construction of the stadia. The construction of the stadia was alway based on the appointment of a constructor.

I'm sure the boards aim would be to play some games at the new stadia next year but that is dependant upon construction, if it is ahead of schedule you can assume games from around this time next year, if it's behind schedule there would be little point starting just for a few games, maybe just the playoffs.

I can understand that some other fans would want to see this fail, as we can still match them on the pitch whilst making a loss and with a old stadium, with a new one and turning a profit, the down fall of saints that many hope for to make way for their side may not happen.
Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#23 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:36 PM

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No its not always as simple, but they have been planning for years, they have had years of success and should have their house in order.

And they are getting to it. The same would be said if this happened 10 years ago. It's always later than it should have been for some. It's getting done. Let's just be happy, eh?

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
maybe one less hole to go to, but its a historical hole, going to see Saints play at halton stadium means what??

It means I can sit down in comfortable surroundings with decent views of the pitch and better catering.

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the super league is about licence and having to meet criterias.

It is. One of them is that the club have to play in a premier standard facility. This move ensures they tick that box a year early.

QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i think its a poor message to Cas, Wakey or (one of the promoted potential teams)

hypothetically speaking, there is nothing stopping Cas or Wakey to do the same for 18 months and play at oakwell or elland rd, why hope there ground is built.

There isn't. If they can make these moves work, then it would be good for SL. I don't see why it wouldn't be?




QUOTE (1976PMJwires @ Jul 18 2010, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUESTION for you..... what happens if the funds break down for the Saints build????

Then Saints will have to negotiate where they are going to play for 3 years. If it's at Widnes, then again they will at least tick that box for premier stadia.
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#24 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (LOWFIELD @ Jul 18 2010, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
give saints licence to widnes,

Yet another person who doesn't understand the difference between a club and a stadium.
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#25 Padge

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE (bewareshadows @ Jul 18 2010, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love the way that some fans, beleive that they are completely responsible for their club, obviously it was 1976PMJwires who personally put his hand in his pocket and funds the Wires new stadium.

Or maybe it was actually the work of 1 man who bank rolled the whole project and had very little to do with the Wire fans, but obviously the Saints fans should have sorted their house first, how dare they take a whole 5 years more than Wire to get a new stadium built.

As for licences I see nothing that goes against the licence here. The last round we got a licence based on our current status, which was playing at knowsley road, by the time the next licences are issued Saints will have moved on from the last submission to having a stadium in place, this is only the 2nd year of a 3 year licence. It's only after 2011 that new criteria have to be met.

Is the problem that saints are playing in a ground that does not belong to them, surely we don't want to go down the path of saying that clubs that do not own their ground cannot play in SL, as that covers a large % of clubs.

Wigan rent a ground that is not theirs yet that's not a criteria for throwing them out of SL. Same for quite a few others who either rent from councils or are only part owners of their stadia.

As for the confusion over whether work had begun. The work was on making the access to the stadium possible not actual construction of the stadia. The construction of the stadia was alway based on the appointment of a constructor.

I'm sure the boards aim would be to play some games at the new stadia next year but that is dependant upon construction, if it is ahead of schedule you can assume games from around this time next year, if it's behind schedule there would be little point starting just for a few games, maybe just the playoffs.

I can understand that some other fans would want to see this fail, as we can still match them on the pitch whilst making a loss and with a old stadium, with a new one and turning a profit, the down fall of saints that many hope for to make way for their side may not happen.


From my point of view I don't have a problem with Saints camping in Widnes for a season, I'm just baffled as to what happened, Saints were saying they would have to start the season at Widnes and work had started on the stadium. The next thing is that they have to spend a year at Widnes and the stadium contractor has only been signed up this week.

What the hell happened?


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#26 Whacky Llama

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 18 2010, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From my point of view I don't have a problem with Saints camping in Widnes for a season, I'm just baffled as to what happened, Saints were saying they would have to start the season at Widnes and work had started on the stadium. The next thing is that they have to spend a year at Widnes and the stadium contractor has only been signed up this week.

What the hell happened?



The build date has been put back so Saints can't say that the stadium will be finished for mid-end if next season so the club has said we will play all our games at Widnes and start 2012 at the new ground.

Really can't get over the way fans are moaning about us moving for 1 season, for hears we have had Freud about having a poor stadium and now we are getting one we still get moaned about

Have to love Rugby League fans wink.gif

#27 Padge

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:46 PM

QUOTE (Whacky Llama @ Jul 19 2010, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The build date has been put back so Saints can't say that the stadium will be finished for mid-end if next season so the club has said we will play all our games at Widnes and start 2012 at the new ground.

Really can't get over the way fans are moaning about us moving for 1 season, for hears we have had Freud about having a poor stadium and now we are getting one we still get moaned about

Have to love Rugby League fans wink.gif

I can appreciate that they now have to do a season at Widnes, what I don't get and nobody has explained is what has a ctually gone on. Saints went off the radar because everything was signed and sealed and work started, arrangements made to cover the stadium would only be ready part way through the season. No problem with any of that.

What I don't get is how work supposedly had started and then this week they appoint a contractor so work can start.

Did I miss something?

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#28 yanto

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:48 PM

"the super league is about licence and having to meet criterias.'

Saints do not seem to have met this ..if the new stadium is not finished before the next licence applications....time to go....

Ok Cas or Wakey or even Bradford may have the same problem..hang on we are going to play at Hillsboro.Elland Road,Oakwell while our new" road and roundabout " are being built......Stadium ...Oh that will come later...ALL CLUBS knew they had to meet certain criteria in a certain period of time or lose their licence....it seems to me Saints can not (as yet) do this.

Edited by yanto, 18 July 2010 - 11:53 PM.


#29 Padge

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:59 PM

QUOTE (yanto @ Jul 19 2010, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"the super league is about licence and having to meet criterias.'

Saints do not seem to have met this ..if the new stadium is not finished before the next licence applications....time to go....

Ok Cas or Wakey or even Bradford may have the same problem..hang on we are going to play at Hillsboro.Elland Road,Oakwell while our new" road and roundabout " are being built......Stadium ...Oh that will come later...ALL CLUBS knew they had to meet certain criteria in a certain period of time or lose their licence....it seems to me Saints can not (as yet) do this.

If the stadium is actually in the process of being built it puts them ahead of those that only have plans.

Now refer to my previous posts on the topic.

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#30 Dave T

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:04 AM

QUOTE (bewareshadows @ Jul 18 2010, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love the way that some fans, beleive that they are completely responsible for their club, obviously it was 1976PMJwires who personally put his hand in his pocket and funds the Wires new stadium.

Or maybe it was actually the work of 1 man who bank rolled the whole project and had very little to do with the Wire fans, but obviously the Saints fans should have sorted their house first, how dare they take a whole 5 years more than Wire to get a new stadium built.

I agree with the principle of the rest of your post, although not really sure what you are talking about here.

It wasn't 1 man who bank rolled the Wire project.

It is also longer than 5 years. Our first game was played there almost six and a half years ago.

#31 Whacky Llama

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:01 AM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 19 2010, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can appreciate that they now have to do a season at Widnes, what I don't get and nobody has explained is what has a ctually gone on. Saints went off the radar because everything was signed and sealed and work started, arrangements made to cover the stadium would only be ready part way through the season. No problem with any of that.

What I don't get is how work supposedly had started and then this week they appoint a contractor so work can start.

Did I miss something?


Don't ever remember Saints saying work had started, the developer had started to clear the site and the access roads are being built as I type this wink.gif

You cab go to our current stadium (stadium my ######) and have a look at an exhibition of the new stadium.

#32 Dave T

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:17 AM

QUOTE (yanto @ Jul 19 2010, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"the super league is about licence and having to meet criterias.'

Saints do not seem to have met this ..if the new stadium is not finished before the next licence applications....time to go....

Ok Cas or Wakey or even Bradford may have the same problem..hang on we are going to play at Hillsboro.Elland Road,Oakwell while our new" road and roundabout " are being built......Stadium ...Oh that will come later...ALL CLUBS knew they had to meet certain criteria in a certain period of time or lose their licence....it seems to me Saints can not (as yet) do this.

Why should any club be kicked out due to one piece of criteria? They will rightly lose that point, however they are still in a better position than many other clubs, based on support, turnover, capacity, on-field, youth etc.

#33 davo99

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 19 2010, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why should any club be kicked out due to one piece of criteria? They will rightly lose that point, however they are still in a better position than many other clubs, based on support, turnover, capacity, on-field, youth etc.

Why should they even lose the point? Provided they have a legally binding contract with Halton Council they are in the same situation as a number of other clubs, Wigan rent, Widnes rent, Leigh rent, etc

#34 Padge

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Whacky Llama @ Jul 19 2010, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't ever remember Saints saying work had started, the developer had started to clear the site and the access roads are being built as I type this wink.gif

You cab go to our current stadium (stadium my ######) and have a look at an exhibition of the new stadium.


Ahhh thanks I think the penny has dropped. There is a site developer and a stadium construction company. The developer started work on the site providing access etc. for Tesco, Stadium and whatever else is on the development site.

The stadium construction company has now been appointed (that seems to have taken a long time) and work on the actual stadium can now commence, even though it is now a further 8 months behind schedule.

I hope Stobart Stadium are as accommodating to Saints if Widnes get the nod for SL or come 2012 when due to further unforeseen delays Saints are still homeless.



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#35 Bomb Jack

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 19 2010, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope Stobart Stadium are as accommodating to Saints if Widnes get the nod for SL or come 2012 when due to further unforeseen delays Saints are still homeless.


With our close relationship with Saints, i'm sure Mr O'Connor & the Council would help Saints out all they can.
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#36 bewareshadows

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:06 PM

I think the reason Saints have signed with the Halton Stadium for a whole year is to take into account unforseen delays. The word unforseen being key. Anyone would think Saints are purposely dragging their feet on this issue. I'm pretty sure the board are not dragging their feet, every second at knowsely road is yet more money the board have to shell out to keep the club afloat.

The current business model is a loss making enterprise and the board want out as quick as possible. Saints have no corporate to speak of and Warrington have very little revenue stream from anything outside of RL. It's only word of mouth but my understanding is Warrington do not even need a Rugby Team to play at the ground to make a profit. The corporate and offices that are used mid-week pay more than pay their way.

McManus was on Radio, Manchester 4 weeks back saying on average these things had a build time of 50- 52 weeks, so all things being equal it could be ready start of July, however it would be daft to bank on that and only hire the halton stadium up to that point. So halton is hired for the whole year, I'm sure as soon as Saints can move they will, so if it's a quick build then June. If a long build then Feburary 2012. With it being a project it's subject to lags and delays and being ahead of schedule. Until you put a spade in the ground sometimes these things don't reveal themselves.

Saints where also asking the RL to back load their fixture list with home games which maybe could not be done so another reason for the full year at Halton, also Halton may have drove a good bargin, who would want just some fixtures when you can get em all.


As for the licence that does not come into play until 2012 so any questions about next season are irrelevant.
Super League the only place in the world where people still believe that less competitors and a closed market to new competition will improve the quality of the product.

Even the Chinese and the Cubans gave up on these marxist principles years ago.


SL with a reduced number of competitors and a closed market = North Korea.

#37 Dave T

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (davo99 @ Jul 19 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why should they even lose the point? Provided they have a legally binding contract with Halton Council they are in the same situation as a number of other clubs, Wigan rent, Widnes rent, Leigh rent, etc
Yes, apologies I was referring to their KR stadium and even if they stayed there it shouldn't over-ride everything else that is good about the club.


#38 chrisl1

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:38 PM

According to the sporting life website Saint's new stadium should be ready towards the end of next season.

http://www.sportingl..._St_Helens.html

Edited by chrisl1, 19 July 2010 - 02:40 PM.


#39 chrisl1

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (davo99 @ Jul 19 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why should they even lose the point? Provided they have a legally binding contract with Halton Council they are in the same situation as a number of other clubs, Wigan rent, Widnes rent, Leigh rent, etc

There is one difference the Wigan, Widnes and Leigh stadia are in the towns where thos clubs play.

#40 davo99

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Jul 19 2010, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is one difference the Wigan, Widnes and Leigh stadia are in the towns where thos clubs play.

Stobart is in the town where Saints will be playing next year biggrin.gif




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