Are we giving the Police too many powers?

[Martyn Sadler]

Check out this story about a reporter receiving a Police Information Notice for trying to run a story about a woman who had conned people out of thousands of pounds.

 

Further to the post below about Paul Gambaccini, which also smacks of the police using their power wrongly, it strikes me as a worrying sign of the direction in which policing is heading.

 

I know that newspapers are unpopular these days, but they still play a vital role.

[ckn]

In a nutshell answering the topic title, yes. And then making it worse by giving them not enough money to use them properly forcing them to skimp on the governance that makes them use them safely.

 

The police, like the councils, are being asked to do more and more with less and less and it really is compromising service and quality.

[RidingPie]

Successive governments, of all colours, seem to have thought that Orwell's 1984 was a blueprint for society rather than a warning!

[GeordieSaint]

The police, like the councils, are being asked to do more and more with less and less and it really is compromising service and quality.

 

I think you'd be far-fetched to find any public service that isn't. Speaking for my area, it has been the case since I have been a part of it through a Labour administration, Coalition and now a Conservative one. The place is in a right mess but nobody with any real influence will admit it.

[JohnM]

Yes, but its not a matter of resources, it more a matter of rigorous oversight by the IPCC.

 

Sure the police are hard pressed and sure a bigger budget would be welcomed by them, but double the police budget  and they'll just pay themselves more, with bigger pensions and payoffs and issue double the number of Police Information Notices. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

I'd suggest in the case of the journalist, its a classic case of a law written (with good intention) being used as its ambiguous.  In the terms of the law I'm guessing it qualifies as harassment, and there is no exception for journalism or public interest.

[Martyn Sadler]

I'd suggest in the case of the journalist, its a classic case of a law written (with good intention) being used as its ambiguous.  In the terms of the law I'm guessing it qualifies as harassment, and there is no exception for journalism or public interest.

 

In the case of someone genuinely being harassed I can see the point of Police Information Notices as a shot across the bows of a harasser.

 

I'm not sure, though, that there is any absolute dividing line between what is harassment and what isn't. Every case has to be judged on its own facts.

 

But it also means that anyone who issues a PIN has to exercise some common sense, which seems to have been absent in this case.

[Phil]

_{Just widening this a little if I may? Most police officers know very little of the law. I've had several confrontations in the past with officers who've said "do you think you know more of the law than I do?" My response has usually been "yeah, yeah I do actually"}

[chuffer]

bet that went down well.....

[Bedford Roughyed]

In the case of someone genuinely being harassed I can see the point of Police Information Notices as a shot across the bows of a harasser.

 

I'm not sure, though, that there is any absolute dividing line between what is harassment and what isn't. Every case has to be judged on its own facts.

 

But it also means that anyone who issues a PIN has to exercise some common sense, which seems to have been absent in this case.

 

Damned if they do, etc.

 

When the police show initiative or common sense and something goes wrong, they have to hold the can.  Why risk it?  Apply the law as written and they are in the clear.

[ArthurDaley]

Successive governments, of all colours, seem to have thought that Orwell's 1984 was a blueprint for society rather than a warning!

 

Well it was written by Eric Blair, a relative of Tony Blair perhaps    

[JohnM]

Damned if they do, etc.

 

When the police show initiative or common sense and something goes wrong, they have to hold the can.  Why risk it?  Apply the law as written and they are in the clear.

 

Apply the law as written and they are in the clear.

 

That would be a start - ask quite a few pro photographers

 

see here: https://youtu.be/jN7buzYdGZ4?t=39

[ckn]

I think you'd be far-fetched to find any public service that isn't. Speaking for my area, it has been the case since I have been a part of it through a Labour administration, Coalition and now a Conservative one. The place is in a right mess but nobody with any real influence will admit it.

When was the last time you saw a minister resign for a scandal in their department?  It doesn't happen these days because they've worked out that they can devolve powers to areas, MoD is a perfect example, cut their funding then blame the area leads for the inevitable failings.  This is a party agnostic point, Labour, Tories and Lib Dems are all the same.  For example, the genuine scandals around the hospital inquiries, entire counties' health economies being put into special measures and health trusts that would be bankrupt if they were private and the health minister takes not a single bit of blame (that goes for the last few health secretaries).

 

Another example that proves the point.  Norman Lamb (Lib Dem) was the Mental Health minister, he oversaw a 10% real terms budget cut in mental health during his tenure, saw mental health services degraded to the point that they're utterly broken in many parts of the UK yet he had the brass balls to champion the Lib Dems as the only party who will do anything about making mental health better.  It's a bit like Harold Shipman promoting his a geriatric care expertise.

 

On the police though, it was a clever move introducing local commissioners.  It's yet another line between the local police and the ministers.  Police numbers have fallen heavily and in many areas in London the only police presence is a phone outside the closed down station.  Where we live, we have a hugely effective local community policing service that works well to keep crime down by very visible policing, that's only happening because of the good-will of the police who do lots of unpaid extra work, that won't continue beyond the next line of cuts that will see even more front-line police removed.  They do it in a clever way in most constabularies, they simply don't replace retiring police officers rather than make existing ones redundant, it's less contentious and far less visible than making a serving police officer redundant.

[JohnM]

too much power, not enough brains.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/21/westminster-child-abuse-inquiry-police-split-credibility-witness

[Saintslass]

I wonder, how did the journalist get the fraudster's email address?