NZ and French teams in expanded World Club Series

[wackojacko]

If you want to go the country route, that's probably the best route to go. If they extended it to an eight club series, basically, if Catalans don't make the last four, or NZ Warriors, their respective governing bodies could arrange a final play off between them and their champions on the same weekend as the final eliminator. I'd be happier with that than them just entering by default because they're the only club from that nation in the league.

Only have to look at the interest in a game between Catalans and Aude to get a sense of what kind of event they could make out of it.

 

What would NZ do? Do they even have a national league anymore?

[westlondonfan]

It would certainly be an improvement...but it's still a bit too close to the business end.

The problem with RL is the lack of competition, but fast tracking teams from different countries to try and manufacture some is not the answer. Develop the lesser nations first (ideally with NZ Warriors in their own league and Catalan in the French)...but as that's not feasible at the minute then the current set up will remain.

The Warriors are doing OK as are the Kiwis. The consensus seems to be that France needs another SL team. After that a Welsh team in SL and PNG team in the NRL would be my way to go.

[scotchy]

we're looking at the wrong sports....we should be looking at golf,and turn the world club series into the ryder cup of RL

 

 

Team NRL v Team ESL

 

 

we could have 5v5, 7v7 even 9v9 as long as its all played over a single weekend

Im not sure it should take the place of an expanded WCC, but I do like Ryder Cup points idea.

 

Perhaps it could take the place of the 'spare' year in the international cycle (i.e the rumoured cycle going WC, Tour, 4 nations/federation comp, rest, WC, Tour, 4 nations etc), could even encompass a 9's comp, in the same way the Ryder Cup has fourballs, Foursomes and Singles.  

[scotchy]

If you want to go the country route, that's probably the best route to go. If they extended it to an eight club series, basically, if Catalans don't make the last four, or NZ Warriors, their respective governing bodies could arrange a final play off between them and their champions on the same weekend as the final eliminator. I'd be happier with that than them just entering by default because they're the only club from that nation in the league.

Only have to look at the interest in a game between Catalans and Aude to get a sense of what kind of event they could make out of it.

that's an additional game for Les Catalans and the Warriors to fit in somewhere and leave us with the possibility that the NRL's best are going up against a semi-pro side and creates more uncertainty around planning. It makes a logistically difficult thing more logistically difficult for what is really pretty intangible and limited benefits.

[roughyedspud]

Im not sure it should take the place of an expanded WCC, but I do like Ryder Cup points idea.

 

Perhaps it could take the place of the 'spare' year in the international cycle (i.e the rumoured cycle going WC, Tour, 4 nations/federation comp, rest, WC, Tour, 4 nations etc), could even encompass a 9's comp, in the same way the Ryder Cup has fourballs, Foursomes and Singles.  

christ.....no its not as well as a expanded WCC...

 

its is the EXPANDED WCC........the final game of a ryder cup style comp would still be the WCC game

[scotchy]

christ.....no its not as well as a expanded WCC...

 

its is the EXPANDED WCC........the final game of a ryder cup style comp would still be the WCC game

Well, then I disagree, it shouldn't take the place of an expanded WCC, and the final game being the WCC could end up leaving what should be the showpiece as a dead rubber. The WCC should be to find the best club in the world, not the best competition. Not for me.

[roughyedspud]

well we'll have to move RL to mars then their year lasts nearly 2 earth years...they maybe we'll be able to fit in all these games everyone wants...

 

 

the concept of a ryder cup style event means we can have 5 or 7 teams from each comp playing against each other in a team event and we'd still have the "premiers v premiers" as the final game,still playing for the WCC.......

 

 

its the WCS & WCC all rolled into one...played over the same weekend

[scotchy]

well we'll have to move RL to mars then their year lasts nearly 2 earth years...they maybe we'll be able to fit in all these games everyone wants...

 

 

the concept of a ryder cup style event means we can have 5 or 7 teams from each comp playing against each other in a team event and we'd still have the "premiers v premiers" as the final game,still playing for the WCC.......

 

 

its the WCS & WCC all rolled into one...played over the same weekend

Not really, You could fit 4-6 games and a 9's comp in 3 days.

 

You could do something bigger over a week.

[Krytensmate]

Some garbage put on here as ' reality '

[Bedford Roughyed]

Rusty Crowes idea is to drop the 4nations (it would appear) and have a 4V4 comp after the GF. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/31555261

 

Expand the game with 'international' club games rather than internationals.

[Krytensmate]

Rusty Crowes idea is to drop the 4nations (it would appear) and have a 4V4 comp after the GF.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/31555261

Expand the game with 'international' club games rather than internationals.

So he's Barmy as well

[GeordieSaint]

Rusty Crowes idea is to drop the 4nations (it would appear) and have a 4V4 comp after the GF. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/31555261

 

Expand the game with 'international' club games rather than internationals.

 

I like Russell Crowe but he is a standard club owner who can't see beyond the club game and bringing money into his club's coffers.

[deluded pom?]

Russell Crowe's interest in RL starts and ends with South Sydney. Why has he never used his fame in the USA to promote the game there? Whenever he's on a chat show his only mention of the sport will be to push the Rabbitohs.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

What about mixing the World Club Series into the Super 8 format?

Instead of having SL clubs going into a league of 8, split them into two groups of four. Have the NRL clubs do the same at this stage. Play everyone in your group once and pay everyone in one of the other league's groups once (all clubs play 4 NRL clubs and 3 SL clubs).

Semis and finals, followed by World Club Final.

Would never happen, but would be the closest we could probably get to a Super Bowl of Rugby League. You'd need the NRL to split into 2 groups, reduce their regular season down to 19 games and introduce a secondary comp for those that are knocked out at the split stage. I think those reasons are where my idea falls down!

[D Collins]

ask UEFA. You can also ask them why they list TNS as participants in this year's champions league.

Can't believe you continued flogging this horse.

To repeat (and I particularly enjoy saying this)...Everton...have never..played in the UEFA Champions League. They failed to play in the Champions League because they got knocked out at the 3rd qualifying stage.

The World Cup qualifiers are not the World Cup, the F1 qualifying rounds are not the F1 race. Having to qualify for something means you are not in it.

UEFA list games under their jurisdiction (qualifiers for the Champions League and the Champions League).

Thought I wouldn't need to go looking for a UEFA reference, but anyway. This is UEFA's list of the Champions League top goalscorers

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/competitions/Publications/01/99/48/33/1994833_DOWNLOAD.pdf

To pick out one example: Andriy Shevchenko scored 48 Champions League goals. He also scored 11 goals in the qualifying rounds, which obviously are not included, because they are not in the Champions League.

[overtheborder]

I think whatever they do with it, I'd prefer it to be after the gf as opposed to the season after, as a "world champions" match doesn't really feel like that when the teams are different to the ones who won the league the previous season. Other than that I like the idea of an expanded tournament rather than a series, Although I thought the series was a lot more entertaining and well contested than some people may have expected.

[Krytensmate]

I think whatever they do with it, I'd prefer it to be after the gf as opposed to the season after, as a "world champions" match doesn't really feel like that when the teams are different to the ones who won the league the previous season. Other than that I like the idea of an expanded tournament rather than a series, Although I thought the series was a lot more entertaining and well contested than some people may have expected.

But won't happen as both competitions want their GF to be seen as the pinnacle of the season , in football the ' champions league ' happens the season after qualification , no issue

[Wellsy4HullFC]

But won't happen as both competitions want their GF to be seen as the pinnacle of the season , in football the ' champions league ' happens the season after qualification , no issue

In football though, the Champions League Final is at the end of the season, not the beginning.

[Krytensmate]

In football though, the Champions League Final is at the end of the season, not the beginning.

Yes it is , when do they then play the football WCC ?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Yes it is , when do they then play the football WCC ?

In the middle of the season, and no one really cares about it sadly.

[overtheborder]

But won't happen as both competitions want their GF to be seen as the pinnacle of the season , in football the ' champions league ' happens the season after qualification , no issue

Fair comment but the CL has a lot more rounds and matches so it would be a bit unfeasible to play directly after the season. Agreed about the GF pinnacle point, just my own personal preference to play it post season I guess.

[scotchy]

Can't believe you continued flogging this horse.

To repeat (and I particularly enjoy saying this)...Everton...have never..played in the UEFA Champions League. They failed to play in the Champions League because they got knocked out at the 3rd qualifying stage.

The World Cup qualifiers are not the World Cup, the F1 qualifying rounds are not the F1 race. Having to qualify for something means you are not in it.

UEFA list games under their jurisdiction (qualifiers for the Champions League and the Champions League).

Thought I wouldn't need to go looking for a UEFA reference, but anyway. This is UEFA's list of the Champions League top goalscorers

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/competitions/Publications/01/99/48/33/1994833_DOWNLOAD.pdf

To pick out one example: Andriy Shevchenko scored 48 Champions League goals. He also scored 11 goals in the qualifying rounds, which obviously are not included, because they are not in the Champions League.

Its funny that you are looking for ways where you can work out when the champions league starts and who participated in it when UEFA themselves tell you.

 

Is there possibly any more irrefutable proof that those teams playing in the 1st qualifying round played in the champions league than a list of champions league teams published by UEFA including those sides? http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/accesslist/listofparticipants/index.html

 

Well yes, there is actually. UEFA outright and expressly saying so I suppose.......

 

The 2014/15 UEFA Champions League began with the draw for the first and second qualifying rounds at UEFA's headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland, on 23 June 2014 and ends with the final at the Olympiastadion, Berlin, on Saturday 6 June 2015.http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/accesslist/listofparticipants/index.html

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Its funny that you are looking for ways where you can work out when the champions league starts and who participated in it when UEFA themselves tell you.

Is there possibly any more irrefutable proof that those teams playing in the 1st qualifying round played in the champions league than a list of champions league teams published by UEFA including those sides? http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/accesslist/listofparticipants/index.html

Well yes, there is actually. UEFA outright and expressly saying so I suppose.......

The 2014/15 UEFA Champions League began with the draw for the first and second qualifying rounds at UEFA's headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland, on 23 June 2014 and ends with the final at the Olympiastadion, Berlin, on Saturday 6 June 2015.http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/accesslist/listofparticipants/index.html

So does the World Cup begin with the qualifying rounds as well then?

It can't be one rule for one and one for the other. They either all start at the qualifying stage or none do.

It's obviously not clear even to UEFA (or they haven't made it clear) what they consider to be part of the Champions League if they're not including goals scored in the qualifiers as part of tally. If they contradict each other, you can't just cherry pick the one you like most.

[scotchy]

So does the World Cup begin with the qualifying rounds as well then?

It can't be one rule for one and one for the other. They either all start at the qualifying stage or none do.

It's obviously not clear even to UEFA (or they haven't made it clear) what they consider to be part of the Champions League if they're not including goals scored in the qualifiers as part of tally. If they contradict each other, you can't just cherry pick the one you like most.

except it can because the world cup structure is entirely different to the champions league structure. Your comparison is comparing them at the wrong time.

 

Put basically, the fifa world cup is a tournament organised by fifa, they invite x amounts of teams, broken down in to the 6 confederations. So they will offer x amount of invitations to UEFA, x amount to the CAF etc.

 

Those federations then put on a qualifying tournament, so the World Cup Qualifiers are not a FIFA competition, they are a UEFA completion or a CONCACAF competition. But they are then used to put forward teams for the world cup.

 

Similarly, and this is where you are going wrong, the UEFA champions league is a UEFA competition, they invite x amount of teams to participate broken down in to the 54 associations of UEFA. So they will offer x amount of invitations to the FA, x amount to the FFA, the SFA etc etc.

 

Those federations then set out how you qualify for European competition, top 4 champions league 5th Europa cup, Cup winners Europa cup, what happens if the champions league winners don't finish top 4, or the cup winners do etc etc.

 

That's where you are going wrong, The analogue is between the world cup qualifiers and the league competition, leading to the world cup and champions league. Not between the world cup qualifiers and the champions league qualifiers (which are qualifiers for the group stage not the champions league itself)

 

to give a better example, look at the FA cup, which has 6 rounds before it gets to its first round proper. Those games are undoubtedly FA Cup games, they are nothing else. They are an early stage of the competition, but they are part of the same one.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

except it can because the world cup structure is entirely different to the champions league structure. Your comparison is comparing them at the wrong time.

Put basically, the fifa world cup is a tournament organised by fifa, they invite x amounts of teams, broken down in to the 6 confederations. So they will offer x amount of invitations to UEFA, x amount to the CAF etc.

Those federations then put on a qualifying tournament, so the World Cup Qualifiers are not a FIFA competition, they are a UEFA completion or a CONCACAF competition. But they are then used to put forward teams for the world cup.

Similarly, and this is where you are going wrong, the UEFA champions league is a UEFA competition, they invite x amount of teams to participate broken down in to the 54 associations of UEFA. So they will offer x amount of invitations to the FA, x amount to the FFA, the SFA etc etc.

Those federations then set out how you qualify for European competition, top 4 champions league 5th Europa cup, Cup winners Europa cup, what happens if the champions league winners don't finish top 4, or the cup winners do etc etc.

That's where you are going wrong, The analogue is between the world cup qualifiers and the league competition, leading to the world cup and champions league. Not between the world cup qualifiers and the champions league qualifiers (which are qualifiers for the group stage not the champions league itself)

to give a better example, look at the FA cup, which has 6 rounds before it gets to its first round proper. Those games are undoubtedly FA Cup games, they are nothing else. They are an early stage of the competition, but they are part of the same one.

I think where you're going wrong is with the term "qualifying". A qualifying round is not a part of the competition they are aiming to qualify for, otherwise it would just be called "Round 1".

To qualify (definition: to become officially recognised), they have to win those rounds. If they were already officially recognised, they wouldn't be called qualifying rounds. They'd be the first rounds. But they're not. They're the "pre-rounds".

The group stage of the Champions League is the first round of it. Everything before is preliminary. Whether organised by the same governing body or not is completely irrelevant. That is like arguing that the RLWC qualifying rounds (which are organised by the same governing body as the RLWC proper AFAIK) are a part of the RLWC itself.

The FA Cup starts at Round 1. Everything before it is not the FA Cup competition itself. They are qualifying games to be recognised as part of the competition. That's what qualifying actually means. Everything else is just dancing around the actually definition of the word.