19 Mar: St Helens v Warrington Wolves KO 8pm (TV)

[MrFussy]

Good solid scrap between two contenders even if neither were in top form tonight. As ever I have much respect for Warrington, it looked like they'd pay us back for one of those comebacks from the earlier days of SL. I won't be surprised if they run riot at the Magic Weekend again.

 

For ourselves I think we obviously have to be very happy again tonight. We won't have many tougher fixtures this season and to still be running at 100% is very pleasing and something to be proud of.

 

Hopefully Greenwood won't be out for too long and Vea will keep performing to such a high standard. Best wishes to Evans as well, it's never nice to see players injured.

[back to the future]

Tony Smith what a weird bloke

[Steve Fox]

I couldn't agree more. Be interesting to see whether Myler will remain on the outer as well - who knows Widnes may have another one to add to the dynasty one day...

Rich has already played 1st team rugby for Widnes, one of 9 Mylers to do so (off the top of my head). Though if he'd have kept his birth surname he'd have been the fourth Laughton, after his great uncle Doug, and great great great uncle Jerry (Wembley 1930) and Jerry's brother.

[chuffer]

Tony Smith what a weird bloke

I thought he was bang on

[back to the future]

I thought he was bang on

Stiil a weird bloke

[chuffer]

Stiil a weird bloke

Strong pills perhaps

[dadafrank]

Saints know they can just foul and foul and foul, and the worst Thaler will ever do is give a penalty. He's a ######.

Tell you don't like them.. bet penalty count was 50/50

[dadafrank]

Make no mistake, we were awful.

But it comes to something when even Stevo is screaming for a penalty to us. Saints just went straight into cheating mode whenever they were put under any pressure, and Thaler was happy to let them get on with it.

sour grapes brownie

[dadafrank]

Joke and a fuching disgrace .... Move on, how the ###### these are top...

cos we havnt lost.. that's how it works out

[back to the future]

Wire were Dire as was Saints Goal line defence

[1976PMJwires]

Its SL standard mate

  

Two sin bins minimum, couple of pathetic pens

Because no ones managed or good enough to beat them.

  

Results prove that to be correct, but come on, how much rub of the green did the saints have ??

Who else has been better this season than them? Attacking especially they look quality.

 

Attack wise they are good, strong unit and good creatively, no issues with the Quality of Saints, credit to them, just pee'd what they got away with.... It's my opinion

 

cos we havnt lost.. that's how it works out

Haha, get that all day long..... Last night I was annoyed at the standard of the ref, lack of sin bins and a penalty given to Saints when Clarke stuck a leg out, classed it as intent...... That was the final straw for me, the player turned around with his leg out and NEVER made contact

Well done to Saints, sad for Greenwood, wow he looks some player.

Wires injuries stopping us from gaining traction, but to be fair, we ain't that far off, be nice to see a fully fit squad and we'll be fine

[Saintslass]

Wire weren't dire tonight but dozy defence at marker on the tryline aside Saints were just too dominant for them.  We also had a better kicking game, which I have to say makes a change as that's been a weakness for my team for quite a while.

[Loan Wolf]

Weaker Wolves bench, Higham excepted. Need England back asap, why is Harrison not playing despite being named in 19? Thought Ben Evans was deliberately overstretched by the Saints tacklers, best wishes Ben for a speedy recovery. RHS defence poor tonight, disappointing after a good show v Rhinos last week - what changed? Good opportunist tries, but sadly lacking penetration to finish off moves in structured play against a hard working Saints defence. Live up in the NE, but happily back in town next Fri to see Giants match live - hopefully back to winning ways.

[Dave T]

I raised it earlier in the week, but our spine isnt good enough as it is. Clarke has been poor if we're being honest, OBrien lacks creativity and Bridge hot and cold. Myler at least brings something different with his pace plus his speed of passing, we are pedestrian at that.

In the top games I just cant think of many well worked tries we score. Last week we scored from a Leeds error, a kick through and some individual brilliance. Last night we scored from three scoots from dummy half and a charge down.

Where is the link play? OBrien isnt bringing that or a kicking game at the moment.

Creativity against sound defences is lacking. Sure we can have individual brilliance and at times that all clicks and we look good, but it ultimately cost us in the semi last year when we couldnt crack Wigan, and the signs were bad last night.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

2 things stood out for me in this game yesterday

 

1) The difference in standard from the pitiful dross shown on Sky 7 days previously was abundantly clear from both teams

2) What on earth has happened to Ryan Atkins? awful player

[nathanwood7]

St Helens defence had a real champion quality about it. They were relentless pushing off their own line very quickly (almost too quickly given the way Warrington were able to dummy over from dummy half on a couple of occasions), and they were smart in conceding penalties when Warrington got a roll on rather than risk seeing the likes of Russell and Ratchford tear them apart from dummy half as happened last season.

 

By contrast when Vea made a long break, Ratchford didn't hold the player down and concede the penalty, which allowed Saints to score from a quick play the ball. The smarter thing for Ratchford to do there would be to buy his team more time by holding the Saints player down and taking the penalty. Whilst it could be considered a little cynical, it's probably smart play from a team that know how to get results - particularly after Thaler had shown his hand that he was never going to reach for a card.

[MrFussy]

Last night we saw arguably the two best props in the competition at present in Walmsley and Hill. It really is great that these were both recruited from The Championship and have been able to go on to become top class players. It goes to show the quality of players that are produced there. Amor began to rebuild his career there too and his since become one of the best in SL. I wonder who the next player will be to make the step up.   

[hindle xiii]

Last night we saw arguably the two best props in the competition at present in Walmsley and Hill. It really is great that these were both recruited from The Championship and have been able to go on to become top class players. It goes to show the quality of players that are produced there. Amor began to rebuild his career there too and his since become one of the best in SL. I wonder who the next player will be to make the step up. 

Fui Fui Moi Moi.

[Saint Toppy]

Two key things won it for Saints, their dominant pack and the ability of the halves to create opportunities.

Cant fault the Warrington forwards for effort but Hill aside they rarely dented the Saints defensive line. Contrast this to Saints where all the forwards, Walmsley in particular, regularly pushed the Warrington tacklers back and won the collision.

 

Tony Smith really needs to look at his halves and reconsider his options. Bridge was really poor and took the wrong pass option time & again. O'Brien's general play was also pretty poor and was so telegraphed all night it made it easy for the Saints line to readjust and fill in the gaps. The 1 poor kick in the 2nd half aside Wilkin had probably his best game of the year. Some inch perfect kicking and great pass selections. Burns too controlled the play and seemed to know when to keep it tight and when to put in the long passes to stretch the defensive line. Again, one charge down aside he was near faultless all night.

 

Bar the last 10 minutes Saints pretty much controlled the game and Warrington can count themselves lucky to have finished with just an 8 point loss.

[Dave T]

2 things stood out for me in this game yesterday

 

1) The difference in standard from the pitiful dross shown on Sky 7 days previously was abundantly clear from both teams

2) What on earth has happened to Ryan Atkins? awful player

I think your point 2 is harsh - apart from a terrible attempt on Makinson I thought he stood up well, tackles hard, runs hard. I think Saints did a good job recovering on a couple of half breaks he made, and he could have done slightly better with his long break, but overall I'm relatively pleased with him at the moment.

[Dave T]

St Helens defence had a real champion quality about it. They were relentless pushing off their own line very quickly (almost too quickly given the way Warrington were able to dummy over from dummy half on a couple of occasions), and they were smart in conceding penalties when Warrington got a roll on rather than risk seeing the likes of Russell and Ratchford tear them apart from dummy half as happened last season.

 

By contrast when Vea made a long break, Ratchford didn't hold the player down and concede the penalty, which allowed Saints to score from a quick play the ball. The smarter thing for Ratchford to do there would be to buy his team more time by holding the Saints player down and taking the penalty. Whilst it could be considered a little cynical, it's probably smart play from a team that know how to get results - particularly after Thaler had shown his hand that he was never going to reach for a card.

Yes, there is no doubt about it that it is cynical, and Saints use this tactic well, was it against Catalan earlier this year where they gave around 8 or 9 penalties on the bounce in the first half. They like to disrupt attacks, they lie in the ptb area - but cover for that one man less in the line, they hold down when they need to, and they commit professional fouls when they need to. They disrupted Catalan in that game, they disrupted Wire last night, aided by a weak ref who helped them by speaking to their captain and allowing them to 100% set their line.

 

The problem with this tactic is that when you come up against a strong ref you can get pinged and then you have to defend your line properly, something Saints actually struggled with against a pretty toothless attack - three extremely soft tries.

 

It is working for Saints at the moment, there is no sign that refs want to brandish cards, so it could work for them all year, but there were a couple of worrying signs for them on their own line.

 

The ref issue is not just over here, I watched a few minutes of the NZ Warriors game last night and Tomkins made a great break - was held down by a professional foul, no sin-bin. 

 

We are encouraging negativity, we don't punish off the ball hits or professional fouls, you can't blame teams for utilising those tactics.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I thought Saihts were dirty, certainly as dirty as most other teams and a lot dirtier than some. One skill they have mastered is ref influencing, which is annoying but it is a skill of sorts. They did a great job at the DW last year and continue to make the most of it.

I thought that a couple of the moves Wire put together in the first half were fabulous and loved Hill's dummy to score at the end.

I was reading the Guardian and they had a superb write up, praising the game to the high heavens. Aaron. Bower wrote it - well worth a read.

It's great to see how good Greenwood is becoming, as that was the one area I was most worried about for England. Hope he's not too badly hurt and his brother emulates him in the not too distant future.

[Saint Toppy]

It's great to see how good Greenwood is becoming, as that was the one area I was most worried about for England. Hope he's not too badly hurt and his brother emulates him in the not too distant future.

Reported by Saints there was no break. Its an elbow injury and if he responds well to treatment he could be back for Good Friday

[chuffer]

looked like a hyper extension

[Just Browny]

I think your point 2 is harsh - apart from a terrible attempt on Makinson I thought he stood up well, tackles hard, runs hard. I think Saints did a good job recovering on a couple of half breaks he made, and he could have done slightly better with his long break, but overall I'm relatively pleased with him at the moment.

 

Yep, very strange post. He was far and away the best player in our three-quarters yesterday, although that late effort on Makinson was poor.

 

I agree with your earlier post regarding the spine: once again, when Myler is out of the side it becomes clear how much he adds to the team.