Crowdwatch 23

[The Parksider]

                                          2014                 2015

Hull/Wigan                        10,539               10,787                

Saints/HKR                       11,818               10,781

Fartown/Wakey                   5,487                4,839

Leeds/Catalans                  13,888             15,534

Widnes/Salford                    5,291               5,479  

Cas/Wire                            6,853                  7,239

 

Bilbo - are you receiving? Will you be kindly confirming the other 6 club's average gates (without Millenium Magic so they can be comparable with the top eight averages in the 7 games to come etc..)

[Scubby]

Only 1305 at Post Office Road for my club's game with Whitehaven last night. Our slide in the table means we have had to off-load players as we drop into the Lower 8s (funding cuts next year I suppose). This was actually a crucial game for us in terms of funding next year but no regular fan would even remotely grasp that concept.

 

As a breed of supporter, I think RL fans are not cut out for jeopardy. We are far too pessimistic and parochial by nature and rather than enjoy the unpredictability we lament and ultimately desert our own clubs if they wobble. 

 

We may go down to the dark days of a sub-1000 crowd at Featherstone in the last few weeks. A bit different from the club's chest beating 12-18 months ago.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Only 1305 at Post Office Road for my club's game with Whitehaven last night. Our slide in the table means we have had to off-load players as we drop into the Lower 8s (funding cuts next year I suppose). This was actually a crucial game for us in terms of funding next year but no regular fan would even remotely grasp that concept.

As a breed of supporter, I think RL fans are not cut out for jeopardy. We are far too pessimistic and parochial by nature and rather than enjoy the unpredictability we lament and ultimately desert our own clubs if they wobble.

We may go down to the dark days of a sub-1000 crowd at Featherstone in the last few weeks. A bit different from the club's chest beating 12-18 months ago.

If it's not pessimism about going down, it's pessimism about not going up. There's always something to moan about. Rugby league fans are not cut out to be sports fans it seems.

[Scubby]

If it's not pessimism about going down, it's pessimism about not going up. There's always something to moan about. Rugby league fans are not cut out to be sports fans it seems.

 

Like it or not mate there is a lot of truth in this. We will say we are not going anymore at the drop of a hat - even if we have made progress over time. My club were in the race for the top 4 five weeks ago and now have seen crowds nosedive. I predict we will hit sub-1000 for at least one of our Lower eight games yet we are still on W13 L10 for the season.

[The Parksider]

Like it or not mate there is a lot of truth in this. We will say we are not going anymore at the drop of a hat - even if we have made progress over time. My club were in the race for the top 4 five weeks ago and now have seen crowds nosedive. I predict we will hit sub-1000 for at least one of our Lower eight games yet we are still on W13 L10 for the season.

 

Don't you think Nahaboo walking out burst a very big bubble for you??

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Like it or not mate there is a lot of truth in this. We will say we are not going anymore at the drop of a hat - even if we have made progress over time. My club were in the race for the top 4 five weeks ago and now have seen crowds nosedive. I predict we will hit sub-1000 for at least one of our Lower eight games yet we are still on W13 L10 for the season.

I think there is a separate issue at Featherstone in that they've gone from being the top dog dominating all before them for a good few years (top of the league for four consecutive seasons) to "also-rans" within two years.

The slide started last year when they were clearly no longer the top dogs as Leigh swept all before them in some fashion (and have done again).

I've noticed a few Fev fans really not liking this new system more than other clubs in the lower leagues. I think the issue is that Fev were punching above their weight with a big money backer and an excellent coach in Powell, and now he's gone they can't keep up. The fans have been spoilt and have been attracted to the success, not the club.

In terms of position in the rugby league rankings, last year winning the Championship left you in 15th position with nothing but a trophy to show for it. This year, winning the Championship Shield will leave you in 17th with nothing but a trophy to show for it. Not a great deal of difference in reality.

[Scubby]

Don't you think Nahaboo walking out burst a very big bubble for you??

 

I actually think it all went offside before this. Featherstone were one of the few clubs (except for Widnes) who were working their whole operation towards applying for a franchise (stadium upgrades, academy etc.) It was a gradual climb. It all started going wrong when the new competitions were being structured and things became more cut throat - in terms of criteria for promotion and scaled funding. This is when chancers like Nabboo get an audience.

 

A 1300 attendance is back to the dark days and a sub-1000 crowd this year is inevitable. If we did get to this Lower 8s 'grand final' I really couldn't see us taking more than a couple of bus loads.

[Krytensmate]

I actually think it all went offside before this. Featherstone were one of the few clubs (except for Widnes) who were working their whole operation towards applying for a franchise (stadium upgrades, academy etc.) It was a gradual climb. It all started going wrong when the new competitions were being structured and things became more cut throat - in terms of criteria for promotion and scaled funding. This is when chancers like Nabboo get an audience.

 

A 1300 attendance is back to the dark days and a sub-1000 crowd this year is inevitable. If we did get to this Lower 8s 'grand final' I really couldn't see us taking more than a couple of bus loads.

But that's the problem Scubby , is such a fickle fan base a potential to sustain a 3 year stint in SL without collapsing ? , serious post , not having a pop , my argument has always been that a long term fan base ( years ) of Widnes proportions ( 3,500/4,000 ) is the minimum required to enter a licences SL

[Scubby]

But that's the problem Scubby , is such a fickle fan base a potential to sustain a 3 year stint in SL without collapsing ? , serious post , not having a pop , my argument has always been that a long term fan base ( years ) of Widnes proportions ( 3,500/4,000 ) is the minimum required to enter a licences SL

 

I am comfortable with Featherstone never being a top flight club again. I got to see them win at Wembley and get in the top 6 and have a host of international players. All I am saying is at the time they were doing everything that was asked of them, averaging 2,500, improving the stadium, getting a youth system in place, winning a competition (box ticked). When the landscape chained we pretty much conspired to go bust - thanks to Nabboo's antics.

 

This competition is a different world and some clubs are now well out of the running. The best they can hope for is some games against the bottom 4 each SL season. This year could be the closest competition of the middle 8 clubs. After that I think more of a gap will appear between the two fours.

[thundergaz]

But that's the problem Scubby , is such a fickle fan base a potential to sustain a 3 year stint in SL without collapsing ? , serious post , not having a pop , my argument has always been that a long term fan base ( years ) of Widnes proportions ( 3,500/4,000 ) is the minimum required to enter a licences SL

TBH I never liked licensing but I think it's better than this system. The reason being is to build a successful profitable club you need time and the 3 years licensing system provided this. ( it just needed to of been done properly). This system is all about panic buying as we have seen over the last few days with the clubs in the middle 8s and that's no way to run a business let alone a sports club.This new system forces clubs to spend money and not build for the future whether it be trying to stay up or gain promotion or even to compete.

[Krytensmate]

I am comfortable with Featherstone never being a top flight club again. I got to see them win at Wembley and get in the top 6 and have a host of international players. All I am saying is at the time they were doing everything that was asked of them, averaging 2,500, improving the stadium, getting a youth system in place, winning a competition (box ticked). When the landscape chained we pretty much conspired to go bust - thanks to Nabboo's antics.

 

This competition is a different world and some clubs are now well out of the running. The best they can hope for is some games against the bottom 4 each SL season. This year could be the closest competition of the middle 8 clubs.

Yes it could

Or it could not

Ultimately this system is geared up to clubs who can build revenue , do that and you get closer to competing

[Krytensmate]

TBH I never liked licensing but I think it's better than this system. The reason being is to build a successful profitable club you need time and the 3 years licensing system provided this. ( it just needed to of been done properly). This system is all about panic buying as we have seen over the last few days with the clubs in the middle 8s and that's no way to run a business let alone a sports club.This new system forces clubs to spend money and not build for the future whether it be trying to stay up or gain promotion or even to compete.

To enter a licenced SL you need either a serious benefactor or a long time history of a near 4,000 fan base in the Championship as Widnes had , trapped at the bottom of SL for 3 years isn't sustainable with a fan base of 1,500

[Krytensmate]

TBH I never liked licensing but I think it's better than this system. The reason being is to build a successful profitable club you need time and the 3 years licensing system provided this. ( it just needed to of been done properly). This system is all about panic buying as we have seen over the last few days with the clubs in the middle 8s and that's no way to run a business let alone a sports club.This new system forces clubs to spend money and not build for the future whether it be trying to stay up or gain promotion or even to compete.

And just how effective do you think these ' panic purchases ' will be ? , joining squads already low in confidence

[thundergaz]

And just how effective do you think these ' panic purchases ' will be ? , joining squads already low in confidence

I honestly don't know kryten but it's still throwing cash at something instead of building a business plan etc if it's not working. I do believe no club will go down though which is a shame because Leigh do deserve to go up as they have been brilliant this season but I think the 4 their now will be their next season hope I'm wrong though I will be glad to see the back of Leigh this season lol.

[Maximus Decimus]

I honestly don't know kryten but it's still throwing cash at something instead of building a business plan etc if it's not working. I do believe no club will go down though which is a shame because Leigh do deserve to go up as they have been brilliant this season but I think the 4 their now will be their next season hope I'm wrong though I will be glad to see the back of Leigh this season lol.

 

If Leigh don't make it this year then the whole middle 8 system will be in danger of becoming redundant very quickly. 

[Scubby]

If Leigh don't make it this year then the whole middle 8 system will be in danger of becoming redundant very quickly. 

 

I think what will happen for sure is that SL clubs (9-12) will actively try to weaken the top Championship clubs by trying to sign their best players for 2016. Leigh have one shot IMO and I actually think they could do it. Bradford just not quite there.

[Maximus Decimus]

I think what will happen for sure is that SL clubs (9-12) will actively try to weaken the top Championship clubs by trying to sign their best players for 2016. Leigh have one shot IMO and I actually think they could do it. Bradford just not quite there.

 

Surely this would have already happened this year if that was the case. SL clubs should naturally be better than Championship ones as they have more money and better prospects, I don't see why Wakefield wouldn't have signed the half decent Leigh players already if it was that easy. I'm sure they'd have taken Fui-Fui! 

 

SL clubs will want the strongest sides possible for next season and will get the best players they can from wherever they can; not just to do Leigh or Bradford in. 

 

The only slight argument is that the better Championship players will showcase themselves to the lower SL clubs and be poached where they might not have been before. I suspect though that most SL clubs are well aware of the better Champ players.  

[Scubby]

Surely this would have already happened this year if that was the case. SL clubs should naturally be better than Championship ones as they have more money and better prospects, I don't see why Wakefield wouldn't have signed the half decent Leigh players already if it was that easy. I'm sure they'd have taken Fui-Fui! 

 

SL clubs will want the strongest sides possible for next season and will get the best players they can from wherever they can; not just to do Leigh or Bradford in. 

 

The only slight argument is that the better Championship players will showcase themselves to the lower SL clubs and be poached where they might not have been before. I suspect though that most SL clubs are well aware of the better Champ players.  

 

No I don't agree. I think this season has developed into a reality check for the likes of Salford and Wakefield. Not only struggling in SL but getting knocked off in the cup by Leigh. The middle 8s will be a huge struggle this time and if they squeeze through they won't be counting their chickens again. Basically the best Championship players will be showcased over the the next few weeks so Wakefield, Salford and Widnes will have their eye on some key players who they can afford and also top 8 SL get to see some potential players (Gaskell, Brierly etc.) who they may want to pick-off.

 

Leigh in particular have put all their stars in the shop window this year. They need to get through this middle 8 to keep their best ones IMO.

[Maximus Decimus]

No I don't agree. I think this season has developed into a reality check for the likes of Salford and Wakefield. Not only struggling in SL but getting knocked off in the cup by Leigh. The middle 8s will be a huge struggle this time and if they squeeze through they won't be counting their chickens again. Basically the best Championship players will be showcased over the the next few weeks so Wakefield, Salford and Widnes will have their eye on some key players who they can afford and also top 8 SL get to see some potential players (Gaskell, Brierly etc.) who they may want to pick-off.

 

Leigh in particular have put all their stars in the shop window this year. They need to get through this middle 8 to keep their best ones IMO.

 

That's true but it would've been true regardless of the system especially because of the Challenge Cup.

 

Salford and Wakey less so will have had aspirations of the top 8 at the beginning of the season. They'll have recruited as strongly as they felt possible at the time. This will include Championship players. Many clubs don't have much buying potential and will look at the better Championship players. 

[Krytensmate]

I'm so impressed how everybody seems to know what is going to happen , both in the next 9 weeks and after that as well

There's a lot of crystal balls out there it seems

[Maximus Decimus]

I'm so impressed how everybody seems to know what is going to happen , both in the next 9 weeks and after that as well

There's a lot of crystal balls out there it seems

 

Speculation isn't illegal you know. 

[Lobbygobbler]

Where are the championship crowds? This year has been far higher than previous years

[Krytensmate]

Speculation isn't illegal you know.

Speculation is fine , it's the ' certain ' way it's posted by all the ' know it alls '

[thundergaz]

Where are the championship crowds? This year has been far higher than previous years

That's only because the Bulls are in the championship and Leigh have now got a band wagon of glory supporters because their doing well. ( which is only natural of course) I bet the rest in the champ haven't seen much difference in their crowds maybe even drops in their crowds.

[The Parksider]

Where are the championship crowds? This year has been far higher than previous years

 

 

That's only because the Bulls are in the championship and Leigh have now got a band wagon of glory supporters because their doing well. ( which is only natural of course) I bet the rest in the champ haven't seen much difference in their crowds maybe even drops in their crowds.

 

Yes Bulls and Leigh coming in as full time pros and blasting everyone has been a turn off for the rest of the championship fans so crowds down apart from at Leigh, but you won't get that through to a one eyed Leigh fan.  (meant as a bit of fun which Lobby always takes in good spirit)