Crowdwatch 23

[Exiled Wiganer]

Am guessing that crowds are pretty much the same for the equivalent fixtures for the SL teams, with Magic week end up for fewer games helping bridge slightly the already small drop...

And now we enter unknown territory, and will have to wait till 2016 for an equivalent year on year analysis.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

 will have to wait till 2016 for an equivalent year on year analysis.

Thanks God for that

[The Parksider]

Speculation is fine , it's the ' certain ' way it's posted by all the ' know it alls '

 

Well that includes you for sure..........

 

Anyway just as an exclusive for you I make the average SL crowd 9,000 this year (yes it averaged out at a figure that looks like an estimate!!) last year 9,088 so nowt in it really.

 

Same fans different system??

 

I do think the system has been a good thing for the game though for reasons "suggested" (as I don't know it all but try to) on another thread which you flounced out of.

 

Stronger top SL clubs

Lower SL clubs released from the pressure of licensing

Top championship clubs able to compete and grow towards SL off prize money??

 

I seek your thoughts not your abuse BTW

[The Parksider]

Thanks God for that

 

You don't have to come on threads if you don't want to, you can ignore discussions if you want. No need to be Mr. Nasty.

[Scubby]

On this week's crowds, Leeds really seem to have got some benefit from playing some of their fixtures on Sunday afternoons. They were a hard line Friday night mob not too long ago. A crowd of 15.5k for Catalans in pouring rain is

pretty impressive.

[The Parksider]

Am guessing that crowds are pretty much the same for the equivalent fixtures for the SL teams, with Magic week end up for fewer games helping bridge slightly the already small drop...

And now we enter unknown territory, and will have to wait till 2016 for an equivalent year on year analysis.

 

Yes bang on only 88 fans difference a gap partly closed by MM as you say so nothing in it at all.

 

Yes onto unknown territory which will be the most fascinating aspect of the new system. Regardless of the failure to grow crowds in terms of new fans I think the system has other benefits.

 

I expect some great crowds but some dead rubber ones as well!!!

[amm]

TBH I never liked licensing but I think it's better than this system. The reason being is to build a successful profitable club you need time and the 3 years licensing system provided this. ( it just needed to of been done properly). This system is all about panic buying as we have seen over the last few days with the clubs in the middle 8s and that's no way to run a business let alone a sports club.This new system forces clubs to spend money and not build for the future whether it be trying to stay up or gain promotion or even to compete.

 agree with this, and all they needed to do (the clubs via the RFL) was to use the operating rules they made themselves, but IMO the puppet masters (strong clubs) stopped that from happening. Then they panicked whith the backlash, from fans opinions to Sky viewing figures/contracts...and came up with the 8's, but even said when the new system was announced, that they were not sure how parts of it would work IIRC

 

NB I haven't read any further in the thread if this has all been covered/said/provedwrong

 

I hope it all pans out and I'm made to eat my words, I really do, 

[Lobbygobbler]

Yes Bulls and Leigh coming in as full time pros and blasting everyone has been a turn off for the rest of the championship fans so crowds down apart from at Leigh, but you won't get that through to a one eyed Leigh fan. (meant as a bit of fun which Lobby always takes in good spirit)

Where are average crowds down in the second tier?

[The Parksider]

Where are average crowds down in the second tier?

 

They are way up.

 

just work on that you'll be OK.

[Ackroman]

Where are the championship crowds? This year has been far higher than previous years

 

Here's one piece of information.

[Krytensmate]

Here's one piece of information.

In all parts of the game there will be winners and losers , the Rams are one of this years winners , well done to them

[The Parksider]

Average attendances for this year

 

Catalan....... 8925 

Hull Kr..........8025 

Warrington...9853

Wigan...........13981

Wakefield..... 3989 

Salford........ 4167 

Leeds........15,991

 

More to come. may be worth seeing which way these go against the 7 play off games.

 

may be worth comparing the second same fixtures which mean some club meet three times, between the crowd at the league games and the crowd at the play off games.

 

Corrections welcome (esp from Bilbo)

[Krytensmate]

Average attendances for this year

Catalan....... 8365

Hull Kr..........8025

Warrington...9853

Wigan...........13981

Wakefield..... 3989

Salford........ 4167

Leeds........15,991

More to come. may be worth seeing which way these go against the 7 play off games.

may be worth comparing the second same fixtures which mean some club meet three times, between the crowd at the league games and the crowd at the play off games.

Corrections welcome (esp from Bilbo)

Saints been relegated then ? , better to wait till you've got all the teams done

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

 

Average attendances for this year

 

Catalan....... 8365 

Hull Kr..........8025 

Warrington...9853

Wigan...........13981

Wakefield..... 3989 

Salford........ 4167 

Leeds........15,991

 

More to come. may be worth seeing which way these go against the 7 play off games.

 

may be worth comparing the second same fixtures which mean some club meet three times, between the crowd at the league games and the crowd at the play off games.

 

Corrections welcome (esp from Bilbo)

 

I've got Catalans at 8849 (there seem to be problems with the way they amend their numbers after a game, so that might be why) and Wire at 9671. Not Bilbo, but I've always seen myself as more orc than hobbit.

[The Parksider]

I've got Catalans at 8849 (there seem to be problems with the way they amend their numbers after a game, so that might be why) and Wire at 9671. Not Bilbo, but I've always seen myself as more orc than hobbit.

 

 

I'll check mine as I add the other averages up and if in doubt concede to your figures as I have an "agenda"!!

 

Thanks very much indeed Chizzers

[Exiled Wiganer]

I don't see the point comparing the extra fixtures against earlier fixtures, but it would be interesting to compare them against any equivalent play off crowds. Better still, wait till next year and see the like for like.

By the way, looking at the above figures little of interest stands out for me - everyone's is what could be reasonably have been expcted within fair tolerances. I suspect Huddersfield and Widnes might hope for more.

[audois]

I've got Catalans at 8849 (there seem to be problems with the way they amend their numbers after a game, so that might be why) and Wire at 9671. Not Bilbo, but I've always seen myself as more orc than hobbit.

 

 

total - 98,172

av - 8,925

 

from club web site

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

total - 98,172

av - 8,925

 

from club web site

Many thanks. Any idea why these problems happen?

[The Parksider]

total - 98,172

av - 8,925

 

from club web site

 

same here - thanks

[The Parksider]

1. Looking at the above figures little of interest stands out for me - everyone's is what could be reasonably have been expected within fair tolerances. I suspect Huddersfield and Widnes might hope for more.

 

2. I don't see the point comparing the extra fixtures against earlier fixtures, but it would be interesting to compare them against any equivalent play off crowds. Better still, wait till next year and see the like for like.

 

1. Widnes crowds are disappointing but it's a small town with bigger more successful clubs close by. Historically their top team didn't manage mega crowds but they did peak around 1989 when they were the Champions with a star studded team..

 

Crowds were going up then at the top, Leeds were on 12,000 and Wigan 14,500 but the top side Widnes only managed 8.500.

 

As for Fartown we have a bit of a concensus that their long time in the doldrums lost them a generation or even two of support. However they were on 5,400 10 years ago and compete well so it's not really building back up.

 

2. We can all make whatever comparisons we want when we want. I'm maybe a bit overenthusiastic so I want to see if clubs in the top eight see their average crowds go up thanks to 7 decent fixtures against top clubs, and conversely see what happens to averages in the middle 8.

 

Will the comp push up Championship clubs averages and deplete SL club averages??

 

It'll be very interesting to me and some other like Saddo's to see.

[BilboJeggings]

Each of the 12 SL teams has now played the other 11 at home, and all of these fixtures had a corresponding fixture in the 2014 season.

 

All of the incidental factors which could have an influence when comparing this season to last, such as Thursday / Friday night games, Sky TV etc... will all have evened out across the fixtures, at least as far as they are going to.

 

So this is the closest we will get to answering the question - "Have SL crowds gone up or down since last season".

 

The answer is, as you all know, they have gone DOWN by an average of -86 across all of the 132 SL games in the regular season (from 9006 to 8920). This figure excludes the Magic Weekend.

 

 

The percentage change by club is as follows:

 

10%...Widnes...........6234 (2015).....5668 (2014).....566 Difference
5%.....Leeds...........15921 (2015)....15182 (2014).....739 Difference
4%.....Catalan..........8365 (2015).....8067 (2014).....298 Difference
4%.....Castleford......7468 (2015).....7202 (2014).....266 Difference
1%.....Hull KR..........8025 (2015).....7961 (2014)......64 Difference
0%.....Hull FC........11343 (2015)....11293 (2014)......50 Difference
-1%....Warrington....9853 (2015).....9994 (2014)....-141 Difference
-2%....Wigan.........13981 (2015)....14283 (2014)....-302 Difference
-6%....St Helens....11818 (2015)....12538 (2014)....-720 Difference
-9%....Wakefield......3989 (2015).....4403 (2014)....-414 Difference
-9%....Huddersfield..5873 (2015).....6488 (2014)....-615 Difference
-17%..Salford..........4167 (2015).....4992 (2014)....-825 Difference

 

 

Ordered by actual attendance the table is:

 

Leeds...........15921 (2015)....15182 (2014).....739 Difference
Wigan...........13981 (2015)....14283 (2014)....-302 Difference
St Helens.....11818 (2015)....12538 (2014)....-720 Difference
Hull FC.........11343 (2015)....11293 (2014)......50 Difference
Warrington.....9853 (2015).....9994 (2014)....-141 Difference
Catalan..........8365 (2015).....8067 (2014).....298 Difference
Hull KR..........8025 (2015).....7961 (2014)......64 Difference
Castleford......7468 (2015).....7202 (2014).....266 Difference
Widnes..........6234 (2015).....5668 (2014).....566 Difference
Huddersfield..5873 (2015).....6488 (2014)....-615 Difference
Salford...........4167 (2015).....4992 (2014)....-825 Difference
Wakefield......3989 (2015).....4403 (2014)....-414 Difference

 

I can't absolutely guarantee my numbers. The individual attendances are taken from the RFL web site, except where these figures were identified as being dubious at the time by posters on this board, in which case I have taken the contested figures from the appropriate club web site.

 

 

 

Everything below this point is opinion!

 

The overall conclusion is that the new structure has not resulted in an increase in the number of people paying to watch SL. In fact, up to this point, there has been a slight drop (-86).

 

There are some interesting changes by club...

 

Widnes have had a disappointing season on the field, failing to kick on from the impressive progress the previous season under Denis Betts. In spite of this, they have shown the highest percentage increase in gates. I guess this is partly a carry over from last season, but also in part due to latent Widnes support finally starting to believe that they could once again be capable of producing a team that can challenge their more successful neighbours. In the late 70s and early 80s, Widnes (briefly along with Leigh!) were for a time the best supported AND most successful team in Lancashire.

 

Leeds are the only big team to have increased support over last year. Maybe the Leeds support think they are coming out of their transition period? They have been the most consistent team so far this season and have by FAR the best points difference.

 

Catalan support stays solid in spite of another frustrating season of under achievement. Who knows? The French just seem to keep turning up in the same numbers no matter what. It would be interesting to see what happened if they mastered travelling and started to get results away from home. What size crowds would a Catalan team that was genuinely challenging the top of the table get. I suspect being champions would push their crowds up to well over 10,000.

 

Cas have had another remarkable season on the pitch so far (in spite of last weekends result). But, as ever, their crowds have hardly changed. Still roughly the same as they were in the pre-SL seasons in the early 90s.

 

No idea why St Helens crowds have dropped. I'm fairly confident of the figures I'm using, but why would crowds at the reigning champions drop by 6% in a season where they (so far) are virtually neck and neck with Leeds at the top?

 

Ken Davy must wonder what he can do to get decent crowds at Huddersfield. They are again in the top 4, and look capable of going all the way this season with a following wind. Yet crowds are DOWN 9% from what was an already low number in 2014. The RFL must be thinking they backed the wrong horse in this part of the world, as Halifax were getting bigger crowds than that in the top flight back in the 80s with a less successful team.

 

On the other hand, Marwan Koukash probably has a good idea what he is doing wrong. His big name investments have backfired with a disjointed squad that struggles to function as a team. Hardly surprising that crowds are down. You can't doubt the amount of effort and resources he has put into it. He seems to be lacking someone giving him sound advice on the finer points of team dynamics, or maybe he just isn't listening.

 

Finally Wakefield... It would be a disaster for RL if Wakefield Trinity were to sink from SL and fail to recover. The lack of willingness to turn out and support the club is understandable, given the bizarre way it seems to have been managed this season. I'm sure that a return to a more positive style of management and an improvement in on field performance would quickly see their crowds jump back up, but buying unwanted squad players from Cas and moving to Dewsbury isn't going to make things better.

[The Parksider]

I can't absolutely guarantee my numbers. 

 

You don't have to. If anyone has any doubt they can do their own/

 

A very very big thank you.

[redjonn]

Maybe its not just about how well a team are doing relative to others, i.e. league position or winning silverware.

 

Maybe another factor is the type of play, more attractive and entertaining or less attractive or entertaining.

 

Maybe Leeds are playing a more expansive game, maybe Saints are not playing as attractive a game as their fans like to see.    Key bit being what the fans like to see, some clubs teams fans will like different types of rugby style maybe.

 

I just pop this in as maybe a factor... all maybe's.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think that the better way of looking at crowds to date, which could justifiably include the magic Week End, is that they have been static.

In Wigan's defence, I think our fall is entirely down to our "saving" the Big one push for a game in the next phase. Of course those figures will also be skewed by the London game, but that serves a broader purpose.

I thought Bilbo's analysis was v interesting.

[bamfordsbeans]

Interesting to see Leeds averaging 2000 more than Wigan.

If you swap Hull and Huddersfield its virtually as per the actual league table.

The best thing you can say is we seem to have arrested the slide of the last 2 or 3 years-but some decent figures for the next stage are needed.