Who Trusts Conservatives?

[DoubleD]

3 minutes ago, ckn said:

And keep cutting taxes for corporations.

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

[ckn]

2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

You keep believing that one then.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

If only that were true !

[DoubleD]

14 minutes ago, ckn said:

You keep believing that one then.

Just research it if you don't believe me. I did a thesis on it at uni. Why do you think other governments throughout the world are looking to do the same?

[DoubleD]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If only that were true !

It is true. Try doing some research for once instead of spouting regurgitated nonsense. It's no different to taxes like VAT or fuel tax where you hit a point of marginal revenue/cost - you pass the equilibrium and it becomes self defeating as you earn less revenue

[Robin Evans]

24 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

Aye of course..... and I'm a ringer for Johnny Depp.... I'm feightin em off wi a sh itty stick.

[DoubleD]

1 minute ago, Robin Evans said:

Aye of course..... and I'm a ringer for Johnny Depp.... I'm feightin em off wi a sh itty stick.

How very insightful of you; if I realised we were on that sort of level, I wouldn't have wasted my energies trying to educate you

[Robin Evans]

Nope.... my reply was on a level the post deserved..... only in my opinion of course.

[Griff9of13]

If low corporation tax attracts businesses and increasing it will drive business away can anyone explain to me why businesses have not been abandoning their base countries and flocking to the UK when the opposite of increasing them, decreasing happens. Why haven't Boeing and Microsoft left Seattle for Salford, BMW Bavaria for Bradford and Nisan for Nottingham?

[Bob8]

32 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

It is not a line though, is it.  There is a curve, and at some point is stops being a factor for the company.  It is about finding that middle spot rather than being a dogmatist.

[Martyn Sadler]

5 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I paid income tax for all my working life of 50 years.  In the past I paid a lot more tax than people pay today. I never begrudged a penny of that income tax ever and I'd pay more today if need be. If you want to live in a decent society it has to be paid for, as in Scandinavia.

The Tories were telling us the sky would fall in when we abolished slavery, when we tried to stop kids being sent up chimneys, when trade unions were formed, when we initiated the NHS, when we brought in the minimum wage.

The Tories have opposed every progressive initive this country has ever seen.

For the sake of historical accuracy, it's worth noting that the greatest reformer of the nineteenth century was the Tory philanthropist the Earl of Shaftesbury, who fought long and hard for the protection of children in factories and mines, chimney sweeps, for public health legislation and for the proper treatment of what were then called 'lunatics'.

He got legislation through Parliament on all those issues in the face initially of opposition from all sides.

It's also worth mentioning that the Representation of the People Act 1928, which equalised the right to vote between men and women, was enacted by a Tory government.

That doesn't mean that the Tories are beacons of light, but it does suggest that it's unwise to generalise too widely.

[Martyn Sadler]

5 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

If low corporation tax attracts businesses and increasing it will drive business away can anyone explain to me why businesses have not been abandoning their base countries and flocking to the UK when the opposite of increasing them, decreasing happens. Why haven't Boeing and Microsoft left Seattle for Salford, BMW Bavaria for Bradford and Nisan for Nottingham?

Mainly because they are more likely to locate in Ireland, which levies a Corporation Tax rate of 12.5%, I believe, on trading income.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm just reading an article now as to where the Tories got £ 1.16 million in the final full week of the campaign.

Adrian Beecroft of Wonga  chucked in £50,000. He wrote the Beecroft report for Cameron in 2012 calling for changes to make it easier for businesses to sack employees.

Hedge fund millionaire Reade Griffith also chucked in £50,000.

Billionaire hedge fund manager Sir Michael Hintze  emptied his wallet to the sum of £250,000. He's a bit of a cheapskate though, previously he was good for £1.5 million. I suppose he's got his knighthood now though.

Ehud Sheleg, an Israeli born business man also coughed up £250,000. He collects Bob Dylan artworks. All his taste must be in his mouth.

Arne Geoes an exectutives at the bank BNP Paribas chucked in £ 100,000 as did Keith Bradshaw, a Brummy business man.

 

Pay your bloody taxes you miserable shower.

[Griff9of13]

1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Mainly because they are more likely to locate in Ireland, which levies a Corporation Tax rate of 12.5%, I believe, on trading income.

I must have missed the news bout all those countries I named relocating to Ireland.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Martyn Sadler said:

For the sake of historical accuracy, it's worth noting that the greatest reformer of the nineteenth century was the Tory philanthropist the Earl of Shaftesbury, who fought long and hard for the protection of children in factories and mines, chimney sweeps, for public health legislation and for the proper treatment of what were then called 'lunatics'.

He got legislation through Parliament on all those issues in the face initially of opposition from all sides.

It's also worth mentioning that the Representation of the People Act 1928, which equalised the right to vote between men and women, was enacted by a Tory government.

That doesn't mean that the Tories are beacons of light, but it does suggest that it's unwise to generalise too widely.

Hey and I thought you only knew about rugby league. Sounds like you were listening in the history lessons. You take my point though. They needed their arms twisting up their backs first no doubt.

[Robin Evans]

12 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

For the sake of historical accuracy, it's worth noting that the greatest reformer of the nineteenth century was the Tory philanthropist the Earl of Shaftesbury, 

Wasn't that Anthony Cooper? He was gaffer on the acts commission until its repeal in 1890.... An interesting and far sighted piece of legislation for its time and the predecessor of the current mental health act.

If only Jeremy hunt was as passionate about mental health and learning disabilities provision

[DoubleD]

14 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

It is not a line though, is it.  There is a curve, and at some point is stops being a factor for the company.  It is about finding that middle spot rather than being a dogmatist.

Which I've already stated Robert

[Bob8]

48 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

15 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

It is not a line though, is it.  There is a curve, and at some point is stops being a factor for the company.  It is about finding that middle spot rather than being a dogmatist.

Just now, DoubleD said:

Which I've already stated Robert

You do see the apparent contrdiction.  

 

 

[DoubleD]

2 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

You do see the apparent contrdiction.  

 

 

It's not a contradiction. At the levels of corporation tax the country had, it was self defeating.

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, DoubleD said:

It's not a contradiction. At the levels of corporation tax the country had, it was self defeating.

Help me here, which country and when?

And are we discussing the Laffer curve principle?

[DoubleD]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Help me here, which country and when?

Apologies, I thought this was a thread relating to Conservatives in the UK. Since 2010

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, DoubleD said:

Apologies, I thought this was a thread relating to Conservatives in the UK. Since 2010

I would suggest that it is not clear cut.  We have had relatively low rates for some time, dramatically so compared to the USA and Europe.  

My point is that the Laffer Curve is generally rather disputed and certainly not clear cut in terms of cause an effect once we are away from the extremes.  Is that reasonable?

[Griff9of13]

 

 

[JonM]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

Corporation tax by its very nature is self defeating, and it's proven by reducing it you actually receive greater revenue through investment, creating employment (and subsequent tax from employees/employers) which feeds into the general economy 

"Proven" where exactly?

It 's a ridiculously simplistic view. The United States, Japan, Germany & Sweden have higher taxes on companies than we do, yet are richer. I could pick dozens of countries with close to zero corporation tax (Paraguay, for example) where the economy doesn't look that great.

[DoubleD]

5 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I would suggest that it is not clear cut.  We have had relatively low rates for some time, dramatically so compared to the USA and Europe.  

My point is that the Laffer Curve is generally rather disputed and certainly not clear cut in terms of cause an effect once we are away from the extremes.  Is that reasonable?

It was 30% in 2008 and is now 19% now.

The Laffer curve isn't clear cut, granted but it's generally accepted that the equilibrium is somewhere between 15-20%. Ireland distorts it with their 12.5% rate.

The US has a very convoluted tax system which Trump is finally planning to rip up. So the figure quoted by Griff above is very misleading as the reality is many US corporations pay far lower amounts as they have a lot of allowances/rebates etc.

He is sensibly looking to move towards a more simpler and lower baseline level.