Wolf pack Awareness In Canada

[RayCee]

I see some pretty enthusiastic people from Canada coming here to comment about their team. (I am genuinely sorry for some of the negativity that a few have for the WP, I hope it hasn't put a damper on your enthusiasm). 

The question is how far has the WP's season gone so far in creating awareness for the new team? I assume Toronto/Ontario would be the primary area regarding the WP profile. It's seems to me the media has been positive, the patrons that come want to return for more and for an unknown sport, it's gone beyond expectations in crowd attendance and acceptance. A fair perception? 

[ChoboMog]

The support is much appreciated.  I actually registered on TotalRL back in June, hoping to get involved in the community; but I wasn't sure where to start when any positive sentiment seemed to be immediately shot down, even if only by a small yet vocal minority.

I'm not sure exactly where to start, in terms of the experience, so I'll just list a few observations:

• The season, thus far, has been a blast and has exceed the expectations of anyone I've spoken to.
• My family currently has four season ticket holders, with the group typically being double that size as other friends and family come for a game or three each.
• The numbers started higher than I expected (~6200), have stayed consistent and seem to be growing bit by bit, each game (now twice at ~7200).  This will at least continue through the Super8's; but for a more special event like a promotion final, a ~9000 crowd would not be unreasonable to expect and would push the official capacity of the stadium.
• Meeting the players (both home and away) for the "Third Half" is something I've never experienced in North American professional sports. Chatting, snapping photos, sharing a pint in the beer garden, enjoying a live band playing in the background, meeting at the pub afterwards etc. This is awesome for those following the team, but it typically seals the deal (thus creating a new fan) for those showing up for the first time.
• Like the previous point, the players' genuine desire to interact with the many children in the stands, post-game, is commendable.
• The crowds have been very diverse in terms of age, gender, and background.
• On the topic of community and inclusiveness, the Wolfpack marching in Toronto's Pride Parade makes them the first major professional sports team (as far as I'm aware) to do so.
• The games can be watched across Canada, for free and in HD, on the CBC website, with a couple of admittedly smaller stations providing broadcast TV coverage across Canada and the U.S.  For me this means away game coverage; but for those not yet fans, it means possible exposure to the game.
• The Hot Dog canon is a thing.
• Local and National media coverage is also a thing.  The Canadian Press (syndication) means game reports and stories appear nationally in the print/online media.  The Toronto Star and the Toronto Sun have both reported in local print/online media, with the former actually adding the Kingstone Press League 1 table to the sports pages and the latter seemingly doing original reporting on each game.
• A King/Cherry Street streetcar (tram) has yet to be hit by a conversion, but the crowd has been calling for it on at least a few occasions.
• The team's Twitter/Facebook following seems promising.
• Local teams having played twice now (I think) before a Wolfpack game is also a good way to build amateur interest.

Returning to the original question of awareness: a few weeks back, I was in Chinatown, grabbing a bowl of pho at 4:00AM, and was wearing my jersey.  As I sit down, the guy at the back table goes "Awwooooo!", and we proceed to discuss the last game.  This should at least help demonstrate how interest is at the very least slowly permeating.

I don't know where this experiment is going; but I expect it to become a permanent fixture, and hope it is permitted to join the SL if/when promotion is won from Championship.

There is a ton of quality, excitement, fun, and good will to build upon.

[RobertAM]

I couldn't have said it better than ChoboMog...I haven't missed a game and kick myself for not buying season tickets at the outset but i had planned on a UK trip in May/June and didn't want to pay for seats I wasn't using however once things got rolling i was so smitten with everything WP I delayed my trip until September so I wouldn't miss a game. I did the flexpack thing though which is also a good deal. And i will definitely not be making the same mistake in 2018!

I brought 14 to the opener in dismal weather and have had 6 or so tagalongs for every game since. A number of these people are also planning on buying seasons in 2018.

Atmosphere is fantastic and even though the League 1 teams generally stepped up with fine efforts (Go the Kneets!) I think with Championship teams on the field next year crowd's will be in the 7500+ ballpark regularly with big games filling Lamport out. This thing is set to run and run and run...with the Pack!

[West Leeds Riviera]

I'm interested to see how TW get on next season in the.m Championship when they play stronger teams week in week out. 

I hope TW are successful in making it to SL and hopefully it will strengthen the Canadian national team as I imagine they'll be aiming to qualify for 2021 world cup. 

Hooefully more teams will crop up, Montreal, Vancouver etc.. However, I'd like to see a pro North American League set up on the back of Toronto success. 

 

[Michael1812]

It is great to hear how well things are going in Toronto. Not sure the next time I'll be over, but really looking forward seeing them at home for the first time. 

[Captain Survival]

I also think your summation ChoboMog hit most of the notes I would have mentioned as well.

I have been wondering lately what the current season holder tickets number is for TWP.  I recall when they publicized a few months ago that it was about 3K.

6 hours ago, West Leeds Riviera said:

Hooefully more teams will crop up, Montreal, Vancouver etc.. However, I'd like to see a pro North American League set up on the back of Toronto success. 

 

I have speculated elsewhere on the forum that I think this is a scenario TWP management are also examining, especially if the politics on the SL side of the pond become even more contentious then they already are at this time. But I do not wish to digress to that topic in this thread as TWP speculation is the monkey on the horses back on this forum at the moment.

I live in oakville - a suburb about 40km west of downtown Toronto.  I have taken lately to asking everyone I meet what they think about the success of TWP.  2 months ago hardly anyone knew what I was referencing.  But now,  its the complete opposite.  Most have heard of the team, and its success, even sometimes telling me that they are unbeaten, etc. 

As ChoboMog noted, all the newspapers are now giving some coverage to TWP with several special interest stories published, and the largest daily which has a daily circulation over 1 million copies and is the largest daly in Canada, is now printing the league chart in its sports summaries.

The Star and also the Canadian Press each have a staff writer covering every game now.

I fully expect the hype to heighten greatly in the fall when the Super 8's come here, we might even see a game fully televised if we are really lucky.  And I expect sellouts or close to it.

[John WP Fan]

I think awareness is still quite low, and can increase dramatically with more time and more competitive games next season.

The final game against Doncaster (perhaps more likely competitive with their recent signings?) will be a double header, with a Canada vs USA match added. That should bring more fans, hopefully a true sellout packing the 9,600 seat stadium!

I wear my Wolfpack cap most days, and have only once had anyone recognize it and react. I think there is a lot more growth potential as more locals find out, see a game, and get hooked!

 

[West Leeds Riviera]

17 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

 

I have speculated elsewhere on the forum that I think this is a scenario TWP management are also examining, especially if the politics on the SL side of the pond become even more contentious then they already are at this time. But I do not wish to digress to that topic in this thread as TWP speculation is the monkey on the horses back on this forum at the moment.

I personally feel a domestic comp in NA would be successful and more realistic than 3-4 Canadian/US teams in the RFL

[RayCee]

I

On 21/07/2017 at 6:17 AM, ChoboMog said:

The support is much appreciated.  I actually registered on TotalRL back in June, hoping to get involved in the community; but I wasn't sure where to start when any positive sentiment seemed to be immediately shot down, even if only by a small yet vocal minority......

There is a ton of quality, excitement, fun, and good will to build upon.

It was suggested by an administrator to talk about the WP in this section to keep things more positive. I tried it and it seems to have worked, but perhaps less foot traffic as a result.

I thought it interesting you were put off by the negativity of some to even start commenting. So nice to have you on board. A minority think negativity is a positive attribute. 

The game has huge potential in NA and if managed well, who knows where it could end up? RL has had a few false dawns and maybe some fear this is another one. Still it's worth a punt and the signs are good, as you most eloquently explained.

[RayCee]

19 hours ago, Captain Survival said:

I also think your summation ChoboMog hit most of the notes I would have mentioned as well.

I have been wondering lately what the current season holder tickets number is for TWP.  I recall when they publicized a few months ago that it was about 3K.

I have speculated elsewhere on the forum that I think this is a scenario TWP management are also examining, especially if the politics on the SL side of the pond become even more contentious then they already are at this time. But I do not wish to digress to that topic in this thread as TWP speculation is the monkey on the horses back on this forum at the moment.

I live in oakville - a suburb about 40km west of downtown Toronto.  I have taken lately to asking everyone I meet what they think about the success of TWP.  2 months ago hardly anyone knew what I was referencing.  But now,  its the complete opposite.  Most have heard of the team, and its success, even sometimes telling me that they are unbeaten, etc. 

As ChoboMog noted, all the newspapers are now giving some coverage to TWP with several special interest stories published, and the largest daily which has a daily circulation over 1 million copies and is the largest daly in Canada, is now printing the league chart in its sports summaries.

The Star and also the Canadian Press each have a staff writer covering every game now.

I fully expect the hype to heighten greatly in the fall when the Super 8's come here, we might even see a game fully televised if we are really lucky.  And I expect sellouts or close to it.

Nice to see you are spreading awareness Survival. I visited Toronto many years ago to visit relatives I have there. One of my cousins showed me around the Ice Hockey hall of fame. I did all the usual tourist things and really enjoyed. 

What I like is the openness that exists in Canada. In many countries, getting the instant support the WP have just wouldn't happen. Hopefully, behind the scenes there are structures put in place to develop local talent. That talent takes time to get up to speed but if the pathway is established and quality coaching is there, it will come.

My cousin mentioned earlier wanted to be a pro Ice Hockey player but didn't quite make it. He may have been a good RL player instead but the opportunity wasn't there. He was certainly tough enough.

[Captain Survival]

18 hours ago, RayCee said:

Nice to see you are spreading awareness Survival. I visited Toronto many years ago to visit relatives I have there. One of my cousins showed me around the Ice Hockey hall of fame. I did all the usual tourist things and really enjoyed. 

What I like is the openness that exists in Canada. In many countries, getting the instant support the WP have just wouldn't happen. Hopefully, behind the scenes there are structures put in place to develop local talent. That talent takes time to get up to speed but if the pathway is established and quality coaching is there, it will come.

My cousin mentioned earlier wanted to be a pro Ice Hockey player but didn't quite make it. He may have been a good RL player instead but the opportunity wasn't there. He was certainly tough enough.

 

That lack of opportunity was the case for most of us.  Almost all Canadians are multisport here in youth, its the nature of the environment, and usually multi-sport is 2-3 competitive sports right through to adulthood. 

For me, there were no rugby opportunities after grade 10 in high school and so that is when I stopped.  But many grow up playing NA football, lacrosse and hockey, and athletes from any of these 3 sports could easily be rugby players.  All those sports involve a high degree of physicality, excellent eye hand co-ordination and other attributes that are also valued in rugby.

Soccer has been making big inroads now, and I assess a reason its popularity is increasing even among traditionalists here as it gives our youth a sporting outlet that is perceived as much less violent versus the other sports I named.  

I fully expect that many athletes will try to cross over if the awareness continues - that is what happened with Ryan Burroughs on TWP.  He only started playing rugby 4 years ago, crossing over from NA football. I believe we will see more of this, although most NA football players may be to big for rugby. 

I wondered if TWP thought about grabbing some ex football lineman and fielding a first and second row of 300/325 pounders.....  without all that equipment on they would be feeling quite a bit more nimble, and although the pace of rugby is faster and more continuous, one is not making violent contact at high speeds every single play so there are positive trade-offs that might allow more to cross to rugby. Its a matter of sports specific conditioning and I fully expect more men here to try as time progresses.

New Zealand is such a beautiful country.  It is one of the countries Canadians feel is most "similar" which I suppose you already know.

[RogerT]

Hello there gang,

I am a Batley Bulldogs fan from West Yorkshire and in most probability we should be playing you next season in the Championship and really looking forwards to that day.

A very massive well done to one and all in getting this off the ground and long may it continue.

Cheers Roger Thompson.

[RobertAM]

Hey RogerT..remember Batley well from my early years and visits back to aunts n uncles. look forward to seeing you over here or there next year..might ask you to source me a Batley shirt next year. cheers

 

[RogerT]

Hello there Robert,

No problems just give your size in the English equivalent and when the new shirts for next season comes out I will see to it.

If you pop over to the Batley Bulldogs forum on this site you will notice that a gang of us band together and sponsor a player, last year we did two, we also run a thing called the War Chest where people can join and pay £5 per win or £100 for the regular season(I will let you do the money conversion), each week there is a draw for a £100 and if the team doesn't win the required number of games then we get some money back.

Last season we won more than was required and the money collected went towards the players bonus, believe it or not we amassed £18500.

We are in the main a happy club self sufficient, it's great.

So glad you are all enjoying your first season in the RL.

Cheers Roger.

[RobertAM]

Roger, cheers - let me know the cost of the shirt in Pds and i will forward a money order..unless of course we meet up at a game and I'll get the pints in!

I will have a look at your forum..sounds like an engaged club..glad to see that. all the best bob

[Markus]

I can't speak for the rest of Canada but there hasn't been much coverage out here in B.C. I actually learned about the Wolfpack from watching the BBC. First game I watched was the mudhaven game and haven't missed a game since. 

Can't see a team in Vancouver working out logistically so will happily keep supporting TWP. I really think Toronto is the best possible scenario for success. Huge market, deep pockets, great front office, lots of expats, solid sponsorship and tv deals etc... If they can't make it work, I don't see anyone else (in N.A.) doing better.

Early days still but TWP have had as good a start as you could expect so far. It looks like they've created an atmosphere unlike any other sporting event in the city. 

I was a bit taken aback by some of the negativity I found on the board here too. Some people seem to think growing the sport is a zero-sum battle. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but it seems the same arguments get trotted out over and over so I don't bother engaging. If nothing else, people are at least passionate about the sport. It must be said, a lot of people have been supportive too. It seems there are dissenting views on almost every aspect of the sport, not just expansion. 

I'm just enjoying watching the sport and being along for the ride. Looking forward to seeing what the Super 8s and the Championship have in store going forward. It's been a lot of fun so far. Hope interest continues to grow.

 

[RogerT]

Just in case they get promoted to the Championship for next season I have got my visa granted.

[deluded pom?]

4 hours ago, Markus said:

I was a bit taken aback by some of the negativity I found on the board here too. Some people seem to think growing the sport is a zero-sum battle. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but it seems the same arguments get trotted out over and over so I don't bother engaging. If nothing else, people are at least passionate about the sport. It must be said, a lot of people have been supportive too. It seems there are dissenting views on almost every aspect of the sport, not just expansion. 

It didn't take you long to work out RL "fans" Markus. Brits like to moan. British men like to moan even more. Yorkshiremen like to moan even more. Yorkshire RL fans who are men like to moan the most. It's a genetic thing. I'm hoping you Canadians can widen the gene pool. Enjoy the game for what it is and ignore the moaners. By the way, I'm a Yorkshireman who is a RL fan 

[RayCee]

16 hours ago, Markus said:

I can't speak for the rest of Canada but there hasn't been much coverage out here in B.C. I actually learned about the Wolfpack from watching the BBC. First game I watched was the mudhaven game and haven't missed a game since. 

Can't see a team in Vancouver working out logistically so will happily keep supporting TWP. I really think Toronto is the best possible scenario for success. Huge market, deep pockets, great front office, lots of expats, solid sponsorship and tv deals etc... If they can't make it work, I don't see anyone else (in N.A.) doing better.

Early days still but TWP have had as good a start as you could expect so far. It looks like they've created an atmosphere unlike any other sporting event in the city. 

I was a bit taken aback by some of the negativity I found on the board here too. Some people seem to think growing the sport is a zero-sum battle. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion but it seems the same arguments get trotted out over and over so I don't bother engaging. If nothing else, people are at least passionate about the sport. It must be said, a lot of people have been supportive too. It seems there are dissenting views on almost every aspect of the sport, not just expansion. 

I'm just enjoying watching the sport and being along for the ride. Looking forward to seeing what the Super 8s and the Championship have in store going forward. It's been a lot of fun so far. Hope interest continues to grow.

 

Hello Markus. I was wondering about the coverage across Canada, hence the thread here. I didn't expect much over your side. When the TW make Super League, it should help. 

As to negativity, this is nothing compared to some Football (Soccer) fans. I can't understand why people can have a common interest, yet it divides rather than unites. 

For RL I take the approach of what is best for the game when it comes to supporting one team of another. I have no connection with Yorkshire but I'm happy for Castleford to do well as their exciting style of play deserves success. Their long suffering fans are finally enjoying a moment in the sun too.

[DKL79]

As a matter of interest has awareness of TWP spread as far as Buffalo? It's only down the road and maybe TWP would want to test the water there.

Unfortunately Hunslet won't be playing you next year, unless it's in the Challenge Cup, so maybe I'll have to find another team to support over there because it truly is a game day and a half!

[ChoboMog]

8 hours ago, DKL79 said:

As a matter of interest has awareness of TWP spread as far as Buffalo? It's only down the road and maybe TWP would want to test the water there.

I can't say for sure; but I doubt it has made much of a splash in Buffalo.  Not unless someone there is already into RL and has been since before the TWP formed, and that would make them a pretty significant outlier.

With the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) at a population of in excess of 7 million and the City of Toronto itself being just shy of 3 million, I'm not sure there's a need to push for interest further afield.  At least not yet.  The two cities might be just a few hours drive apart, but I can't say there's much in terms of shared identity between them, nor is there any sort of meaningful (e.g. Toronto vs Montreal) rivalry.  The border crossing can also be a pain for anyone looking to attend games.

There's been a good vibe locally, stable if not growing attendances, increasing post-game coverage in local media etc.  Establishing the team as a permanent fixture on the local scene is surely the team's #1 priority, with any spillover into neighbouring and other markets a nice bonus.  Once we're looking at promotion into Super League and once Lamport Stadium has a consistent extra 2-3000 bums in seats, pushing the stadium's capacity, perhaps this will change.  Should this happen, though, I would still put stadium expansion and a more mainstream broadcast TV contract as higher priorities than heavy promotion of the team in (already American Football saturated) upstate New York.  I would also expect the narrative, then, to shift more heavily to Montreal/NYC expansion and, should this year's CFL attendances be anything to go by, "Whither the Toronto Argonauts?"

[RobertAM]

But ChoboMog wouldn't you agree that a Montreal-Toronto RL rivalry would develop naturally a la Leafs-Habs and Argos-Allouettes ? I think I good indicator would be if and when we play Toulouse/Catalans and see if fans come in from Montreal to watch??

Actually when the WP played Hemel (or maybe it was All Golds - can't remember i was into the Mojito's by second half!) there was a group sitting beside us from Buffalo area..they thought it was magic..

[CanadianRugger]

Resident of Kingston, ON and long time rugby union player and fan here.

I have been very excited since the Wolfpack were unveiled last year and has followed the team closely ever since.  I've watched most games on CBC and am planning on attending the Super 8s with my girlfriend when the games come to Toronto (three hour train ride from where I am right between Toronto and Montreal).  

As for General awareness, from my perspective the Wolfpack have been very well received, they've received national press coverage and are on TV.  This in a very crowded sports market where other far more established sports in Canada (Rugby Union cough) have failed to gain any sort of traction since the game turned professional.  I coach Rugby Union and the members of my club are aware of the Wolfpack although many don't really know the difference between League and Union (serious, most rugby players in Canada know nothing about League or much about professional rugby in either code).

I think the Wolfpack have done a good job marketing themselves and I think they are going to become permanent fixture.  Let me be clear though, there is almost no amateur League in Canada.  The sport is almost non-existent outside of a handful of teams.  There are what, three clubs in all of Ontario? Compare this to Union where there are more 15,000 registered players in Ontario alone and probably over 100 clubs (not counting high school rugby which is administered separately).  

What is now needed is a proper amateur game to help feed the Wolfpack support and create player development pathways.  I've got some ideas of how the Wolfpack could successfully do this and would love to discuss.  

 

 

[denisatesk]

my wife and myself will be coming for the Whitehaven game (from Whitehaven )we. would be interested to know what the matchday experience and build up consist's of .

we watch every game on premier sports and are surprised  to see spectators coming into the stadium throughout the game. we would be interested to know what is out and about around the ground and what sort of build up go's on in the ground before and after the game.(not forgetting during lol).looking forward to a good trip and hopefully we will give you a good game in better conditions than our last meeting  when you got lucky.

it would be nice to meet up with eric perez again who really impressed with his enthusiasum about the game when he was in our sponsers lounge at haven.

 

[Captain Survival]

27 minutes ago, denisatesk said:

my wife and myself will be coming for the Whitehaven game (from Whitehaven )we. would be interested to know what the matchday experience and build up consist's of .

we watch every game on premier sports and are surprised  to see spectators coming into the stadium throughout the game. we would be interested to know what is out and about around the ground and what sort of build up go's on in the ground before and after the game.(not forgetting during lol).looking forward to a good trip and hopefully we will give you a good game in better conditions than our last meeting  when you got lucky.

it would be nice to meet up with eric perez again who really impressed with his enthusiasum about the game when he was in our sponsers lounge at haven.

 

 

The Canadian way is to stroll into the match as time progresses - this has been remarked upon in the forum previously by away supporters and viewers of the premier games who were surprised that the crowd grew as the game progressed.  A few eager fans get there early to avoid the traffic jams.  The stadium is in what is considered "downtown west" and so one can walk there from the hotels in the downtown core, but it is a long, long walk - about 4.5 km.  In fact, depending on what route you take pass through a few separate shopping and restaurant districts, and that is what sidetracks everyone.  Lots and lots of restaurants (hundreds), pubs and everything else one can imagine.

If you are staying downtown, walk Queen st until you get to Spadina, then up to King St, then walk west.  There is a brief barren stretch then its shop after shop and for the most part quite lovely.  There are other meandering routes, and each has its attractions.

I do not know if you have ever been to Toronto.  If not, be prepared for a completely different experience to what you are used to in the UK.  Its literally apples to oranges.  But in a good way usually.  Toronto downtown is a very dense residential and commercial mix now.  I used to live at King St and Tecumseh (you will see if you look at a map) and the change from then (1990) to now is mindboggling.

The Brazenhead pub is just around the corner from the Stadium and will show on any google map you bring up.  Its a popular spot with fans and teams.