Reason for decline.

[Historical value]

The game was forced in to summer by the RFL, or murdochs puppets , and now we have a few clubs flourishing, siddal been a good example,

but what about the rest, clubs with massive histories, finished, elland gone, ovenden on there knees , the game is in terminal decline.

all the RFL is interested in is junior set ups, to develop players for s/l, but even the wigan st pats, siddals ect, get nothing off the s/l clubs, 

and soon they will disappear as well.

[moorside roughyed]

I'm massively worried about the future of the game.Its dying and the RFL either don't care or its heads in sand syndrome.

[Historical value]

You only have to look at the activity on this web site, to tell you that people have given up, on the game. I have just moved house, but won't be renewing my sky sports, as super league is not worth watching, only cas show can entertain, and that's because they are playing the old way. Crowds down, 

in super league, ncl, league.  Nigel woods salary up and his pension up , there not bothered about anything apart from there selves. 

 

 

 

[moorside roughyed]

Agreed,I'm an Oldham supporter and they're struggling massively. Oldham used to be a rugby league town through and through but not any more. People are walking away in droves.I also watch amateur rugby at saddleworth rangers and see people who used to watch Oldham but they have become disenchanted with the semipro/pro game.I've got to admit I can understand where they're coming from.The games dying and its only a matter of time before super-duper league start to feel it,maybe the RFL will sit up and take notice but by then it may be too late.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

In fairness there's been a huge shift in social attitudes to sport and socialising in general, especially in the last 10-15 years and a lot of it is to do with pub licensing laws.

If you are aged 40+, then the chances are when you started playing open age rugby, the pubs still shut at 3.00pm on a Saturday afternoon, so the only place you could get a drink on a Saturday afternoon was at a rugby club, or in a lock in at the local pub, so that was where you went with your mates to hang out.

Fast forward 10 years, pubs no longer have to shut at 11.30pm, nightclubs can stay open until 6-7am and you now see the under 30's getting loaded up on drink in houses before hitting the town centre at 11.pm.

We are also in the midst of a generation of players who were at school when the government at the time basically stopped secondary school competitive sports and after school games in lots of schools up and down the country. The 'participation over winning' mentality has produced a generation of couch potatoes!!

What worries me is the seemingly lack of any attempt by the RFL to identify 'how and if' this worrying trend can be reversed.

The finger of blame could also be pointed at the shift in seasons to summer rugby, but I remember the game was suffering with participation numbers dropping in winter, so would it make that big a difference in the bigger scheme of things??

One thing I have seen in summer, is the lack of a structured fixture list, with games being rearranged to midweek at very short notice, which has resulted in spectators losing interest.

I personally was all for the switch to summer, on paper it all made perfect sense, but I would now favour a return to winter, for no other reason that to bring some stability back into the game. The lack of floodlights at the majority of clubs means that games have to be played at 2.30pm on a Saturday, so players 'where possible' know exactly where they stand in relation to work, shifts, holidays etc.

I would also move the 16's competition to winter as well, as they have important exams from with mocks and GCSE exams after christmas, so its unfair to drag those young players out in January/February/March for preseason training when they need to be concentrating of school exams, as they are so much more important than when the majority of us on this forum left school.

The rest of the juniors I would leave in summer.  

You would think that someone on the Community Board would read these forums and report back to the RFL about the concerns within the game - maybe Nigel Wood can give up 1/3 of his annual salary to employ 3 people specifically to get off their backsides and engage with people to try and find the root of the problems the game faces - what a gesture of intent that would be!!

 

 

 

 

 

[moorside roughyed]

8 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

In fairness there's been a huge shift in social attitudes to sport and socialising in general, especially in the last 10-15 years and a lot of it is to do with pub licensing laws.

If you are aged 40+, then the chances are when you started playing open age rugby, the pubs still shut at 3.00pm on a Saturday afternoon, so the only place you could get a drink on a Saturday afternoon was at a rugby club, or in a lock in at the local pub, so that was where you went with your mates to hang out.

Fast forward 10 years, pubs no longer have to shut at 11.30pm, nightclubs can stay open until 6-7am and you now see the under 30's getting loaded up on drink in houses before hitting the town centre at 11.pm.

We are also in the midst of a generation of players who were at school when the government at the time basically stopped secondary school competitive sports and after school games in lots of schools up and down the country. The 'participation over winning' mentality has produced a generation of couch potatoes!!

What worries me is the seemingly lack of any attempt by the RFL to identify 'how and if' this worrying trend can be reversed.

The finger of blame could also be pointed at the shift in seasons to summer rugby, but I remember the game was suffering with participation numbers dropping in winter, so would it make that big a difference in the bigger scheme of things??

One thing I have seen in summer, is the lack of a structured fixture list, with games being rearranged to midweek at very short notice, which has resulted in spectators losing interest.

I personally was all for the switch to summer, on paper it all made perfect sense, but I would now favour a return to winter, for no other reason that to bring some stability back into the game. The lack of floodlights at the majority of clubs means that games have to be played at 2.30pm on a Saturday, so players 'where possible' know exactly where they stand in relation to work, shifts, holidays etc.

I would also move the 16's competition to winter as well, as they have important exams from with mocks and GCSE exams after christmas, so its unfair to drag those young players out in January/February/March for preseason training when they need to be concentrating of school exams, as they are so much more important than when the majority of us on this forum left school.

The rest of the juniors I would leave in summer.  

You would think that someone on the Community Board would read these forums and report back to the RFL about the concerns within the game - maybe Nigel Wood can give up 1/3 of his annual salary to employ 3 people specifically to get off their backsides and engage with people to try and find the root of the problems the game faces - what a gesture of intent that would be!!

 

 

 

 

 

Good point about the lack of competitive sport at schools,when my son was at school participation was more important than winning, I don't wholeheartedly agree with that.Participation is also important but so is winning, it's up to the losing team/person to find a way to win.And we do have more lazy kids these days or so it seems. And yes I do wish the powers would read these forums,they might just learn something.

[yanto]

Some interesting comments on the CARLA Facebook page..."In view of the number of games that have been cancelled this year, and following an interesting conversation on Twitter last night, It would be good to know What everyone's opinion is on taking the game forward in West Cumbria next season."

CARLA Facebook

[eastlad]

On ‎21‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 10:14 AM, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

In fairness there's been a huge shift in social attitudes to sport and socialising in general, especially in the last 10-15 years and a lot of it is to do with pub licensing laws.

If you are aged 40+, then the chances are when you started playing open age rugby, the pubs still shut at 3.00pm on a Saturday afternoon, so the only place you could get a drink on a Saturday afternoon was at a rugby club, or in a lock in at the local pub, so that was where you went with your mates to hang out.

Fast forward 10 years, pubs no longer have to shut at 11.30pm, nightclubs can stay open until 6-7am and you now see the under 30's getting loaded up on drink in houses before hitting the town centre at 11.pm.

We are also in the midst of a generation of players who were at school when the government at the time basically stopped secondary school competitive sports and after school games in lots of schools up and down the country. The 'participation over winning' mentality has produced a generation of couch potatoes!!

What worries me is the seemingly lack of any attempt by the RFL to identify 'how and if' this worrying trend can be reversed.

The finger of blame could also be pointed at the shift in seasons to summer rugby, but I remember the game was suffering with participation numbers dropping in winter, so would it make that big a difference in the bigger scheme of things??

One thing I have seen in summer, is the lack of a structured fixture list, with games being rearranged to midweek at very short notice, which has resulted in spectators losing interest.

I personally was all for the switch to summer, on paper it all made perfect sense, but I would now favour a return to winter, for no other reason that to bring some stability back into the game. The lack of floodlights at the majority of clubs means that games have to be played at 2.30pm on a Saturday, so players 'where possible' know exactly where they stand in relation to work, shifts, holidays etc.

I would also move the 16's competition to winter as well, as they have important exams from with mocks and GCSE exams after christmas, so its unfair to drag those young players out in January/February/March for preseason training when they need to be concentrating of school exams, as they are so much more important than when the majority of us on this forum left school.

The rest of the juniors I would leave in summer.  

You would think that someone on the Community Board would read these forums and report back to the RFL about the concerns within the game - maybe Nigel Wood can give up 1/3 of his annual salary to employ 3 people specifically to get off their backsides and engage with people to try and find the root of the problems the game faces - what a gesture of intent that would be!!

 

 

 

 

 

The most sensible and well constructed argument I have heard regarding the subject. Completely agree with all of it. Times have changed, Summer doesn't seem to be working for a variety of reasons so a switch back would make sense.

Problem is - can you see anyone admitting they have made a mistake? Head in the clouds unfortunately and out of touch with the real issues and reasons behind the decline.

What do we know though eh?

[bowes]

17 hours ago, yanto said:

Some interesting comments on the CARLA Facebook page..."In view of the number of games that have been cancelled this year, and following an interesting conversation on Twitter last night, It would be good to know What everyone's opinion is on taking the game forward in West Cumbria next season."

CARLA Facebook

It looks like the lack of an under 18s league is hitting them badly as under 16s don't feel ready to go straight into open age 

[yanto]

22 minutes ago, bowes said:

It looks like the lack of an under 18s league is hitting them badly as under 16s don't feel ready to go straight into open age 

Some feed back from a union club chairman on that topic saying their game is also going through the same problems and I know one of the top amateur soccer teams in the region is struggling to put  a side out for the upcoming season.

More than just the gap between under16s and open age....its a whole social problem affecting ALL sports not juts RL.

[Marauder]

On ‎03‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:52 PM, yanto said:

Some interesting comments on the CARLA Facebook page..."In view of the number of games that have been cancelled this year, and following an interesting conversation on Twitter last night, It would be good to know What everyone's opinion is on taking the game forward in West Cumbria next season."

CARLA Facebook

Didn't they have a big pow wow a couple of seasons ago when turning to the summer - at first the reports seemed good - what's happening now

[yanto]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

Didn't they have a big pow wow a couple of seasons ago when turning to the summer - at first the reports seemed good - what's happening now

Reading between the lines on the official Facebook  its a split between blaming the switch to summer.

Your are right in stating that CARLA took the summer concept on board a few years ago and were one of the associations that believed they could make a go of summer rugby.

Another reason for the decline being branded about is the step up from under 16 to open age with no age group in between to fill this gap.

The travel between West Cumbria and Barrow for the CML is also causing concern and there are some voices calling to go back to just a Cumberland League.As it stands now the only Barrow sides left are Ulverston and Walney with Walney conceeding their top four semi final last weekend.

Whats gone wrong at local level no one is quite sure because the three West Cumbrian  NCL clubs are all quite strong.

The demise of Haven and Town may also be a factor as a successful pro club in the region encourages participation at lower levels.

My own opinion is the CARLA league is no worse off than it has been over the years with the ten or eleven traditional clubs still running sides.All local sport is suffering a decline in playing numbers and people forget games were called off in the winter leagues for stag nights ,weddings holidays etc but back then the excuse of a frozen ,flooded, unfit pitch could be used ...cant use those in the summer so it looks worse than it really is.

No doubt another "Big pow wow" will be called to discuss the situation because one thing about CARLA is they do listen to the clubs worries.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

the issue is that nobody knows where to start Thommo, there's an acceptance that the game has a problem and participation numbers are dropping, but its too big an issue for the Cumbrian League officials to sort. Where would you even start?

The issues facing the modern game should be tackled by the RFL, not unpaid volunteers on the local management committees, many of whom are aged 65+ who can't relate to someone aged 16-30. 

The RFL wanted to govern the Community game, but look at how the game has declined under their stewardship!!

I'm too young to remember the reason's behind the original split which saw BARLA formed in the first instance, but I believe  it was due to the RFL's mismanagement and lack of input which saw the local leagues split from the RFL to form their own organisation in an attempt to stop the serious decline the sport at grassroots was suffering!

The game initially boomed under BARLA, and although the game was showing signs of decline before the merger with the RFL, in recent seasons, the speed of decline under the (non) leadership of the RFL is frightening and shows no signs of getting any better!

I wonder what support and help (if any at all) was offered to the traditional clubs who have folded in recent weeks, or any efforts to find out why these clubs can't fill 13 shirts to take the field on a Saturday?

[Historical value]

I can remember the split, about 72/73 the game was at a low, the RFL DID WHAT THEY ARE DOING NOW, NOTHING , and barla was formed, and brought the game back to life. , it went from strength to strength, and the barla cup was , there flagship competition. A cup everybody wanted to win. Totally destroyed by summer rugby. The ncl leagues will go the same , as revenues drop, maybe local leagues could stop the rot. For the smaller clubs, it's so sad to see so many clubs , with great history on there knees, but history means nothing at red hall , and s/l

 

 

[moorside roughyed]

7 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

This is a quite interesting read  - https://blog.pitchero.com/why-do-kids-quit-playing-sport A lot of the reasons kids actually give for sport being less fun (and them therefore being less likely to do it) revolve around too much focus on winning, rather than not enough. Participation being more important than winning is an issue for the parents, not the kids. 

Good read and parts of it a bit concerning for sport in general.Got to admit that I was under the impression that kids these days where not as tough as they once where.There are also more things on offer now like gaming and stuff like that.I suppose it's down to the individual, winning for me was important but also the chance to make new friends and meet new people 

[brassey]

true what u say historical value the super league cherry pick all young players put them in there acamday and give nothing back to the ametur club there come from where they have coach and played since there were kids its a disgrace

[Celtic Rooster]

19 games played in the North West Mens League yesterday - nine 24-0 scorelines. Still, as long as the Super League teams are happy all is well with the game.

 

[Defender1]

8 hours ago, Celtic Rooster said:

19 games played in the North West Mens League yesterday - nine 24-0 scorelines. Still, as long as the Super League teams are happy all is well with the game.

 

I think worse than that unfortunately as there were 27 fixtures listed, 10 results possibly some more to come in with 9    24-0's this from a league that fully embraced the switch 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

On 10/09/2017 at 3:20 AM, Celtic Rooster said:

19 games played in the North West Mens League yesterday - nine 24-0 scorelines. Still, as long as the Super League teams are happy all is well with the game.

 

I'm not saying it's right but this is nothing new, regardless of any kind of summer/winter debate. The reality is at that stage of the season unless you have something to play for i.e. championship, promotion, relegation then many teams call their games because the lads just can't get motivated for it and teams struggle to raise a side.  

I think that's something else that's come with the culture shift that somebody mentioned earlier in this thread. 

[Impartial Observer]

11 games scheduled for Pennine league last Saturday, 2 of them 30-0 walkover score lines, find it funny that this has not been mentioned before as some are very quick to point out how many games are not played in other leagues.

[bowes]

55 minutes ago, Impartial Observer said:

11 games scheduled for Pennine league last Saturday, 2 of them 30-0 walkover score lines, find it funny that this has not been mentioned before as some are very quick to point out how many games are not played in other leagues.

The Pennine league has just as bad a fixture fulfilment rate as the summer league, it's just the league is quicker to kick clubs out for repetitively calling games off 

[Defender1]

4 hours ago, Impartial Observer said:

11 games scheduled for Pennine league last Saturday, 2 of them 30-0 walkover score lines, find it funny that this has not been mentioned before as some are very quick to point out how many games are not played in other leagues.

1 team played a summer fixture so was surprised they were given a fixture

We all know the traditional season was in decline that's why the seasons were switched "Increase participation and reduce postponement's" that is why it's under scrutiny 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

this has gone way beyond the winter/summer debate. The problem is a shift in social attitudes amongst young people, and a lack of understanding by the RFL (and similar organisations in other sports) as to how to rectify the issues to make the game appealing to a new generation of players.

It has been said throughout this thread that the problems faced by RL are also replicated in other team sports, ......so should the affected sports (rugby union, cricket, football, netball etc), not get together as a group to put pressure onto the government to launch an in-depth social study into why youngsters are not keen on taking up team sports?

As a sport RL isn't big enough to tackle (no pun intended) these issues as it doesn't have the experience on finances to pull together such an intensive report.  

I've said before, you can't even start to solve a problem if you don't know what the problem is to start with!

 

[Defender1]

You also cannot solve a problem if you don't think there is one 

[Defender1]

1 hour ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I've said before, you can't even start to solve a problem if you don't know what the problem is to start with!

 

You also cannot solve a problem if you don't think there is one