Second Canadian Team

[Kayakman]

The most important thing is not location but long term viability with a proper business plan and real money to back it.  The negatives of having an expansion team run amuck and into trouble or fold would be really destructive to all the growth.  The numbers have to work.  Forget the big name bang and glitz and glamour....it was the tortise that won the race and took home the victory!

[Evil Homer]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

30 people buying or renting 30 houses is not a huge logistical undertaking.

260k None EU students managed to relocate to the UK. Im sure 30 Rugby League players can manage it.

I would say that 30 families relocating to a different continent actually is a pretty big undertaking TBH. Not sure there is any equivalence with overseas students, who also literally have entire companies dedicated to bringing them here.

11 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

My wife and I relocated to London from Canada without jobs or a place live. I arrived with nothing but two suitcases. It wasn't very difficult, rent a flat and find a job. At least they won't have to worry about finding a job.

Yes there's quite a difference between voluntarily emigrating to another country and being contracted to work there. Anyone who has ever been involved in full-time sport would find the idea of signing overseas players and then providing no accommodation or living arrangements for them to be pretty bizarre.

[Evil Homer]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So what you are saying is that, for a small fee, a company can arrange this so easily that a 20year old Chinese student can relocate to England without a fuss? Doesnt seem like a huge logistical undertaking to me. 

No, it's not, relocating 30 Chinese families probably would be.

[Cowardly Fan]

This is one of the strangest arguments against an expansion side I've ever heard. On this basis I've got to give myself and my family a lot of credit for a successful relocation to Spain last year. These potential players don't even have a language barrier to contend with. 

[Evil Homer]

44 minutes ago, Cowardly Fan said:

This is one of the strangest arguments against an expansion side I've ever heard. On this basis I've got to give myself and my family a lot of credit for a successful relocation to Spain last year. These potential players don't even have a language barrier to contend with. 

Absolutely baffled that you and others seem to think there is any equivalence at all between you and your family emigrating to another country and a professional sportsman being signed to play for a team in New York and having to move his family to live there for the duration of his contract. It's the equivalent of Aussie players coming to play for British teams. Certainly not an insurmountable task, but it probably would be if you tried to bring over 30 at once and told them to find their own accommodation with absolutely no assistance or provisions of any kind from the club.

[Cowardly Fan]

I and these hypothetical athletes have chosen to go, it's not random. Whether it's 1 or 30 is little difference you pass on very similar info. My company relocates 50-100 people a year here and the assistance is not even 1 full time job.

Give a relocation allowance (if you wish, not every company does), hotel for first few nights, some advice on different areas to live and a reputable agent (more of an issue here) and then the same on schools if needed. 

New York have many questions to answer, this doesn't make the top 100. 

[OMEGA]

12 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

Why?

He took their used kits at first for one of the Toronto local teams, then he took their unwanted coach...then unwanted players

Then he took the 2pts when the two teams met for real  

[damp squib]

What on earth did Ricky Wilby do to you EH?

[Evil Homer]

11 hours ago, Cowardly Fan said:

I and these hypothetical athletes have chosen to go, it's not random. Whether it's 1 or 30 is little difference you pass on very similar info. My company relocates 50-100 people a year here and the assistance is not even 1 full time job.

Give a relocation allowance (if you wish, not every company does), hotel for first few nights, some advice on different areas to live and a reputable agent (more of an issue here) and then the same on schools if needed. 

New York have many questions to answer, this doesn't make the top 100. 

I think you would struggle to find a single professional sports team anywhere in the world that signs overseas players, doesn't provide any living arrangements for them and views them as people voluntarily emigrating to another country. That is just not how professional sport works. If a SL team treated Aussie imports in this way there would be outrage from everyone who knew about it. Even London Broncos provide living arrangements for their Northern players. But ok, whatever, your company does it so great, telling 30 RL players to up sticks and permanently move to New York City isn't an issue that anyone even needs to think about and I'm only saying this stuff because I hate Ricky Wilby, got it. This forum is like talking to a brick wall.

[Evil Homer]

39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

isnt it interesting that we have gone from needing to buy 30 houses to giving them no help at all.

Accommodation would count on the Salary Cap. I would be less likely to sign for a club that offered my lower wages and insisted i live in a certain house rather than just giving me my money and letting me choose where i live.

Right because that is literally what happens for every single other pro RL team in the world that signs overseas players, but hey nothing else about this make sense within the context of every other pro RL team in the world so let's just go with it.

39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

As has been shown. Harrison NJ where the stadium is, is only around as expensive as Headingley and far less expensive than london or Sydney.

Also nobody is telling anyone they have to upsticks and move anyway. They are offered the option.

Yes except the article states that the team would be based in Warwick, New York, not Harrison NJ. And yes, it is telling people who sign with New York that they need to up sticks and move there, unless they're considering a daily transatlantic commute. People do not 'choose' to move to the NY side, they aren't people who wanted to pursue a life in another country, they are professional sportsmen being signed to contracts. Viewing and treating them as migrants is pretty bizarre.

39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So this big issue that we somehow have to overcome is that 30 RL players who choose to move to the New York side will need to be given help to find a place they want to rent or buy, near a stadium where house prices are about the same as Headingley and less than half the price of London and Sydney, and that would involve paying a small fee to a company who do that.

Oh, no!

No, the big issue is that something that is apparently a laughable afterthought to you, is actually quite a big issue. Permanently relocating 30 people to a city and continent where most of them have never been before is a pretty big logistical issue, and telling them to sort out their own accommodation is not consistent with how any professional sports team operates anywhere in the world. This is without even taking into account immigration/visa requirements etc for themselves and their families. So yes, a pretty big issue, or at least one that requires more thought than just stating the team is going to be permanently based in New York and that's it. Bringing over overseas players isn't too difficult, but I wouldn't want to bring over 30 at once and tell them all to find their own places to live, nor I think would anyone else with any sort of grasp of reality.

[Evil Homer]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

1. it isnt literally what happens for every single other pro RL team in the World. You think Sam Burgess is living in a free flat from South Sydney? You think Matt Parcell and his family live in a house Gary Hetherington bought? You think Michael Carter has any financial interest whatsoever in the houses of David Fifita or Jacob Miller?

I have no idea where they are living now, but I'm pretty certain that they would have had some sort of accommodation provided for them when they first arrived in the country. The clubs didn't just sign them to a contract, tell them to report to training on a certain date and give them the number of a travel agent. That isn't what happens. Nobody has ever claimed that they were living rent-free but all of those clubs would have some accommodation available, they don't expect the players to purchase a house on the other side of the world in a country they've never lived in before arriving here. The other issue is that clubs like Leeds and Wakefield have a relatively small number of overseas players with the vast majority of their personnel already being based locally, New York would be importing 30+ at once. To arrange a short tour or overseas trip for 30 people takes a reasonable amount planning and organizing, for 30 people to permanently move to a different continent would take considerably moreso.

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

2. Well, your problem there is the average house price in Warwick, New York is even less. Only 200k. So its substantially cheaper to live there than Leeds, never mind Sydney. 

Im also not sure what you would call someone who moves country to get a new job other than migrants. The idea that these players arent choosing to do so is utterly mental. 

If you can't understand the difference between someone who decides to migrate to another country and a pro sportsman signing a contract to play for an overseas team then there isn't much point continuing to engage with you on this one.

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

3. It isnt. It happens all the time. Teenagers manage to do it on their own. Its really not a particularly difficult thing. If this its one of the 50 most difficult hurdles for a New York franchise to over-come then the owners will be absolutely delighted.

Teenagers move their families to New York? I don't know any teenagers that did that. Some teenagers go to study abroad, and to do so they are provided with huge amounts of logistical and often financial support and yes, have accommodation provided for them when they arrive.

Not sure if you're intentionally missing the point or just missing it, I'm not debating that it's overwhelmingly difficult to move to New York, in isolation it's not an issue although once again it would be very unusual if they are planning to sign overseas sportsmen and then telling them to arrange their own accommodation. What I'm questioning is the fact that the single throwaway statement from the organizers that the team will be permanently based in New York in reality means that the club and its employees will have to find millions of dollars worth of property in a completely foreign market, and nobody seems to have given that a second thought.

[ojx]

14 minutes ago, Evil Homer said:

Not sure if you're intentionally missing the point or just missing it, I'm not debating that it's overwhelmingly difficult to move to New York, in isolation it's not an issue although once again it would be very unusual if they are planning to sign overseas sportsmen and then telling them to arrange their own accommodation. What I'm questioning is the fact that the single throwaway statement from the organizers that the team will be permanently based in New York in reality means that the club and its employees will have to find millions of dollars worth of property in a completely foreign market, and nobody seems to have given that a second thought.

It's not just the logistics of moving 30 families. It is also a question of whether they can adapt to living in New York.  I think issues would likely arise from being way from friends/family and starting kids in a different education system. I would expect these to be a challenge for player retention. Perhaps easier for young single players?

[jpmc]

Out of interest were are Toronto going to house 30 players and possibly family members for the second half of this season,it could help us understand this situation a bit more ?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats no different the hundreds of Antipodean players who currently play in SL, or the hundreds of kiwis, brits and pac islanders who play in Australia.  

This is an issue the game has experience literally thousands of times, its really not that much of a problem.

Yeah, but what will the club do about guns...?!

[ojx]

10 minutes ago, jpmc said:

Out of interest were are Toronto going to house 30 players and possibly family members for the second half of this season,it could help us understand this situation a bit more ?

I believe several of the families will be spending the entire summer vacation over in Toronto, but going back when schools starts (if they have kids).

[jpmc]

23 minutes ago, ojx said:

I believe several of the families will be spending the entire summer vacation over in Toronto, but going back when schools starts (if they have kids).

Great experience for the families for 6 weeks then.

As i say the only reason i ask the question is to try to understand the probable problems a NY franchise might come across.

How are Toronto housing these players/families for the second half of the season. Hotel ?

[Evil Homer]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

The idea that they have to find millions of dollars of property in a foreign market is an absurd exaggeration. 

Except it's not, because they would. Either Wilby's Russian oligarch buys houses for everyone, which would be an outlay of millions of dollars, or they tell the players to do it themselves, which would be incongruous with how professional RL and pro sport as a whole operates. Neither are routine options that can just be dismissed in the way you seem happy to do, and neither are things that have any relevance to existing clubs where the vast majority of players and staff are already locally based.

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats no different the hundreds of Antipodean players who currently play in SL, or the hundreds of kiwis, brits and pac islanders who play in Australia.  

This is an issue the game has experience literally thousands of times, its really not that much of a problem.

Yes except SL clubs do not just sign Antipodean players and then give them the number for a travel agent, and they also do not sign 30 Antipodean players at once, not sure what part of that you're failing to grasp. If there was an existing setup in New York it wouldn't be a big issue to get a couple of players over there. The fact that literally everyone involved would need to permanently move there simultaneously is a problem if they don't have any sort of infrastructure or plan in place to facilitate that.

[Kayakman]

29 minutes ago, jpmc said:

Great experience for the families for 6 weeks then.

As i say the only reason i ask the question is to try to understand the probable problems a NY franchise might come across.

How are Toronto housing these players/families for the second half of the season. Hotel ?

They are coming up to my place....everyones welcome.

[jpmc]

Just now, Kayakman said:

They are coming up to my place....everyones welcome.

Hope its not you that led |FFMM astray

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, jpmc said:

Hope its not you that led |FFMM astray

I'm a good Catholic boy and would never do anything like that.

[jpmc]

12 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I'm a good Catholic boy and would never do anything like that.

Im glad you feel comfortable saying your a good Catholic,you might get hanged over here.

 

Back to the point ,in order to help scotchy and evil homer with therec chat about a potential New York franchise how are toronto going to house 30 players for the second half of this season ?

[ojx]

49 minutes ago, jpmc said:

Great experience for the families for 6 weeks then.

As i say the only reason i ask the question is to try to understand the probable problems a NY franchise might come across.

How are Toronto housing these players/families for the second half of the season. Hotel ?

I believe they stay at the on campus residences of this college:

https://www.georgebrown.ca/waterfront/

They are housed in a two bedroom suite, usually with  another player (one in each bedroom). If their families are visiting, they get the entire suite. If someone knows otherwise, please correct me.  

It is in a great location on the waterfront with tons going on in the summer.

[Evil Homer]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

1. Neither are routine. Both are ridiculous extremes you have chosen. People will make their own decisions as to why you have chosen these ridiculous extremes, but i doubt anyone thinks its because you have a strong argument.

What is the other, less extreme option that I'm missing?

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

2. there are 28 million people in the New York metro area. Im pretty confident the infrastructure can handle this massive influx of 30 RL players without causing too much of a problem. 

Yes, I'm sure the infrastructure of the NYC metropolitan area can handle them, not sure what that has to do with anything mentioned in this thread? Do you think clubs don't need to have any sort of plan or infrastructure in place to facilitate the arrival of their overseas staff, that they just set a venue and date and expect everyone to show up on that date?

[jpmc]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Its a challenge matching the Qatar World Cup and Moon Landing combined. Its a real mystery how the most diverse city on earth could accommodate 30 RL players. There are over 3m immigrants in New York, there just isnt the facility for 30 more. We should all give up on the idea. 

Delicious simply delicious

[Evil Homer]

14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

1. That they put them in touch with one of the many, many, many relocation companies which exist solely to help people emigrate. 37% of people in New York emigrated from a different country, they wont be the first looking to move there. We arent breaking new ground here buddy.

So they do give them the number of a travel agent and ask them to do it themselves, which is literally one of the two options I posted that you said was a ridiculous extreme. And also extremely unusual for pro sport, I think many people would raise their eyebrows at that, but ok.

14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

2. I do think the clubs need to have a plan and infrastructure in place to facilitate the arrival of their overseas staff. I dont think that is a difficult never mind insurmountable hurdle. 

It's not insurmountable but moving 30 families to a different continent is a logistical challenge even if you want to pretend it's not, it's certainly at least something that needs consideration and seemingly wasn't given any.