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Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

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20 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I agree. Sadly, I just can't imagine Scotland, Wales and Ireland ever producing enough quality players for a RU style Lions tour to ever work. When is it going to happen? If anything, we've gone backwards in that respect since RU went professional and the flow of talent from amateur RU to professional RL has dried up, and probably now even reversed. It wouldn't surprise me at all that if Regan Grace developed into a great player that the Welsh RFU would come knocking at the door with a bag of money. I don't know the guy or how he thinks, but I again wouldn't be surprised if he saw the money and the possibility of representing Wales RU in front of 75000 and switched codes.

RL administrators need to stop making decisions on what they wish the situation was, and starting making them based on what the real situation is.

but ... being able to beat Australia while playing for GB could stop him from switching codes, couldn't it?

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20 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

PNG - Port Moresby

Australia - Melbourne

Australia - Perth

Australia - Brisbane

Tonga/Samoa/Fiji - Sydney

Rather play actual internationals than "all star" teams or representative teams. 

If it's GB, it's not an actual International
 


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Just now, scotchy1 said:

Its not even GB, its GB and another country.

Its a rep side we wont commit to calling a rep side brought back because of nostalgia for a Jersey.

Yes, I see what you mean. 
I was just reflecting about this International or Test Match mantra. 
Rep sides are good, as soon as they reflect and actually represent something that exists [culturally, in sports, etc.]. 


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20 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

That's why I'd rather have a tournament than a test series. Seems such a waste to only face the Australians and one or two "warm ups". Could have easily had a 6 Nations/insert other name with Aus, NZ, Tonga, PNG and Fiji instead. 

You'd need the money to have the non tier 1 nations available and camped for 4-5 weeks. 


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On 4/16/2018 at 11:10 AM, lucky 7 said:

I think the ARL commission are very poor at promoting International Rugby League. The see it as a treat to SOO. The jewel in the crown for Australian Rugby League as far as they are concerned.

And rightly so, from that point of view. ?


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The reality as we all know is that the majority of the Celtic Nations players play for them as they aren’t good enough (some yet) for England. Bring along a GB&I Celts (nickname nor formal) team to play midweek teams

1. Russel

2. Tierney

3. Wardle

4. Evans 

5. Grace

6. Sneyd

7. Brierly

8. Flower

9. McIllorum

10. Mullally

11. Ward

12. Roberts 

13. LMS

 

No reason players like Sneyd, Mullally, McIllorum, Stevie Ward (Wales qualified) Roberts or Grace couldn’t step up on tour. Also incentivizes some of those to actually play for the Celtic Nations. Like Evans and Flower more pertinently.

 

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4 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

but ... being able to beat Australia while playing for GB could stop him from switching codes, couldn't it?

It might stop him from switching until after the 2019 tour, but given that after that it's a 5 year wait for GB to play again, I'm not sure that would be enough for him to stick around.

More likely is that if he did well for GB in 2019, that's when Wales RU would make their move for him.

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6 hours ago, JoneslessBishop said:

The reality as we all know is that the majority of the Celtic Nations players play for them as they aren’t good enough (some yet) for England. Bring along a GB&I Celts (nickname nor formal) team to play midweek teams

1. Russel

2. Tierney

3. Wardle

4. Evans 

5. Grace

6. Sneyd

7. Brierly

8. Flower

9. McIllorum

10. Mullally

11. Ward

12. Roberts 

13. LMS

 

No reason players like Sneyd, Mullally, McIllorum, Stevie Ward (Wales qualified) Roberts or Grace couldn’t step up on tour. Also incentivizes some of those to actually play for the Celtic Nations. Like Evans and Flower more pertinently.

 

Or....that Celtic team tours.....and England go on a separate tour..

Problem solved...we don't degrade the England brand and we give the Celtic nations a touring team they actually have a chance of playing for..


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8 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

Or....that Celtic team tours.....and England go on a separate tour..

Problem solved...we don't degrade the England brand and we give the Celtic nations a touring team they actually have a chance of playing for..

Not sure how we are degrading the England brand. Because all the players in the GB 1st team will be English? Doesn’t that just emphasize England as the strongest team in the N Hemisphere and thus strengthen the brand?

Reading between the lines of Nigel Woods’ Singapore statement re the international calendar, looks like the Denver test could be at risk next year. That void could be filled with a GB Nation of Origin test. GB v the Celtic Nations. Just as Origin was created as a selection games for the summers Oz squad, this could do the same. Gives the relaunched GB a big launch, creates interest in how many Celts will end up in the touring 1st team, and has a big game in England in 2019. Seems more credible than the Anzac Nation of Origin we played a few years back.

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23 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Playing Tonga,Fiji,Samoa etc midweek is totally different to playing the likes of Northern Territories,Burleigh Bears or a 2nd string NRL team which previous tours have done and our 2nd string will be of a lot less quality than the 82 invincibles 

For all those who say why GB, only English lads will get in. What if:

Some Bona Fide Welsh, Scot or Irish guy's emerge in the near future who turn out to be very good top performing players, whose inclusion to strengthen the GB team will be achevied on merit, should those guy's be denied the opportunity to perform on the highest stage? Or should they be expected to denounce their heritage and move over to the England team?

I do not see anything wrong with having with still having "Home Nations" teams for the world cup but retaining the British Lions for Ashes series.

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54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

For all those who say why GB, only English lads will get in. What if:

Some Bona Fide Welsh, Scot or Irish guy's emerge in the near future who turn out to be very good top performing players, whose inclusion to strengthen the GB team will be achevied on merit, should those guy's be denied the opportunity to perform on the highest stage? Or should they be expected to denounce their heritage and move over to the England team?

I do not see anything wrong with having with still having "Home Nations" teams for the world cup but retaining the British Lions for Ashes series.

Exactly Harry. And having a GB Celts team touring with the 1st team is a great way of creating that path way and ensuring players stick with or start playing for the Celtic Nations until they make the 1st team

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

For all those who say why GB, only English lads will get in. What if:

Some Bona Fide Welsh, Scot or Irish guy's emerge in the near future who turn out to be very good top performing players, whose inclusion to strengthen the GB team will be achevied on merit, should those guy's be denied the opportunity to perform on the highest stage? Or should they be expected to denounce their heritage and move over to the England team?

I do not see anything wrong with having with still having "Home Nations" teams for the world cup but retaining the British Lions for Ashes series.

You only mention playing as British and Irish Lions for Ashes series, but do you actually mean playing as British and Irish Lions in every game, both home and away, except for the World Cup? In other words, going to back to how it was up until 2007/8?

So, for example, the home series later this year should be British and Irish Lions vs New Zealand?

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1 hour ago, JoneslessBishop said:

Not sure how we are degrading the England brand.

I wouldn't say that we're deliberately degrading the England brand, but how many high profile test matches will England play next year while the British and Irish Lions are touring?

We're choosing to ignore the England brand and promote ourselves as GB and I for a large part of the year. That inevitably has to have some effect on the England brand. They come up with a load of England merchandise and then decide that the team won't play very often.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

For all those who say why GB, only English lads will get in. What if:

Some Bona Fide Welsh, Scot or Irish guy's emerge in the near future who turn out to be very good top performing players, whose inclusion to strengthen the GB team will be achevied on merit, should those guy's be denied the opportunity to perform on the highest stage? Or should they be expected to denounce their heritage and move over to the England team?

I do not see anything wrong with having with still having "Home Nations" teams for the world cup but retaining the British Lions for Ashes series.

I'm not against a GB tour I just think we haven't got the strength in depth to take on the likes of Tonga,Fiji etc in midweek games followed by Australia a few days later and be successful.

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27 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If the Lions win next year, how do we market the 2020 Kangaroo tour here? Its not like we can make a big thing about us beating them for the first time in decades. We didnt. This made up rep side did. 

By that logic wouldn’t it mean we should never play them again as England if we do beat them as England. If GB win then we raise expection the we could beat them on home soil, and people could be there live to watch it. Sounds pretty compelling. And looks like GB might only play Oz once. ‘’GB beat Oz in a one off last autumn. So England have what it takes to beat them over a test series?’’

Edited by JoneslessBishop

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No my decision to bring back the Lions Scothcy. I think we all know that a win for them would reflect well on Englands chances. Lets not pretend otherwise. Australia just need to stop being invincible, and we got close enough in the World Cup Final to encourage 2019 and 2020 sales

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50 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

You only mention playing as British and Irish Lions for Ashes series, but do you actually mean playing as British and Irish Lions in every game, both home and away, except for the World Cup? In other words, going to back to how it was up until 2007/8?

So, for example, the home series later this year should be British and Irish Lions vs New Zealand?

Yes.

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23 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I'm not against a GB tour I just think we haven't got the strength in depth to take on the likes of Tonga,Fiji etc in midweek games followed by Australia a few days later and be successful.

No one has yet said what the itinery would be Davo, games against all those other nations was just a speculation from a poster on this site, I agree with you that would be far to much. 

The international landscape is changing with the quality of the other teams (cuertosy of the NRL Competition) that other tours further than the test series against Aus and NZ should be catered for.

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26 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Im never going to argue against Australia losing being a good thing. 

The lions just dont seem a concept that has anywhere to fit 

The only thing I like about it is the potential of a GB Celts team,  which you make conditional on Celtic Nation turn out prior year, which could strengthen the Celtic Nations. Could actually result in some none English players being around the squad and getting some 1st team games later in the tour

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23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes.

I wouldn't be completely against the idea of returning to how it was pre-2008, but only if I could make the following two modifications.

Firstly, I'd make it Great Britain only and leave Ireland out of it. That way GB could become as Team GB is at the Olympics - it would be the team that represents the UK. It would be our national team, so we can use the UK flag, play GSTQ, and not have to worry about the sensitivities that come with including Ireland in the team. People from Northern Ireland could do as they do with the Olympics, and decide whether to support or play for either Great Britain or Ireland. Their choice.

Secondly, I'd also play as GB at the World Cup to keep things consistent. I wouldn't split the national team ever for the major events. If there is a need and demand to still have Scotland and Wales play matches, you can fit that in too sometimes. But GB would be the national team for the UK.

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31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No one has yet said what the itinery would be Davo, games against all those other nations was just a speculation from a poster on this site, I agree with you that would be far to much. 

The international landscape is changing with the quality of the other teams (cuertosy of the NRL Competition) that other tours further than the test series against Aus and NZ should be catered for.

Don't know if it could be financially viable but a separate tour taking on the Pacific nations would be an option,PNG in Port Moresby,Fiji in Suva and Samoa & Tonga probably in NZ.

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15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I wouldn't be completely against the idea of returning to how it was pre-2008, but only if I could make the following two modifications.

Firstly, I'd make it Great Britain only and leave Ireland out of it. That way GB could become as Team GB is at the Olympics - it would be the team that represents the UK. It would be our national team, so we can use the UK flag, play GSTQ, and not have to worry about the sensitivities that come with including Ireland in the team. People from Northern Ireland could do as they do with the Olympics, and decide whether to support or play for either Great Britain or Ireland. Their choice.

Secondly, I'd also play as GB at the World Cup to keep things consistent. I wouldn't split the national team ever for the major events. If there is a need and demand to still have Scotland and Wales play matches, you can fit that in too sometimes. But GB would be the national team for the UK.

Come on mate, we already have very few competitive teams at the WC...


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21 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Come on mate, we already have very few competitive teams at the WC...

The point I'm making is that there needs to be consistency. Play always as GB, or play always as England, Scotland, and Wales. Pick one of the options and stick with it for every competition. If people love the old shirt so much, just let England wear it.

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12 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The point I'm making is that there needs to be consistency. Play always as GB, or play always as England, Scotland, and Wales. Pick one of the options and stick with it for every competition. If people love the old shirt so much, just let England wear it.

No there doesn’t. The Lions doesn’t make international RU inconsistent. It just makes another event in a limited range of fixtures

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