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John Drake

Sat 5 Oct: Championship - Play-off Final: Toronto Wolfpack v Featherstone Rovers KO 7.30pm (TV)

Who will win?  

108 members have voted

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  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Toronto Wolfpack
      78
    • Featherstone Rovers
      30

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  • Poll closed on 05/10/19 at 18:30

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43 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

No cheap jibe at all, but based on this fact.  Are you saying that 10 of these names didn’t play?

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/second-division-2019/featherstone-rovers/summary.html

In a word - YES. Unless you are counting pre-season friendlies, in which case nearly every other club will have a huge list of number of players played too.

As for "based on this fact", is this from the famous US school of "alternative facts"?? It's laughable that you're quoting statistics from some random website as if they're "fact". At least eight of those players only played in pre-season friendlies (some were released before the season began), and some of those other names are ridiculous - Sam Scott plays for York and has never played for Fev, I have no idea who "Cameron Sutcliffe" is.

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5 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

In a word - YES. Unless you are counting pre-season friendlies, in which case nearly every other club will have a huge list of number of players played too.

As for "based on this fact", is this from the famous US school of "alternative facts"?? It's laughable that you're quoting statistics from some random website as if they're "fact". At least eight of those players only played in pre-season friendlies (some were released before the season began), and some of those other names are ridiculous - Sam Scott plays for York and has never played for Fev, I have no idea who "Cameron Sutcliffe" is.

According to that site Sam Scott played 2nd row vs Widnes in the 1895 Cup. Is that definitely not the case?

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9 hours ago, Scubby said:

This okay for you? Clearly slides over

image.png.b8efd702072b5501549b91bb35a4ecc9.png

Or not when you're Fev playing Toulouse. Btw does the armpit count as downward pressure?

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

According to that site Sam Scott played 2nd row vs Widnes in the 1895 Cup. Is that definitely not the case?

LOL, of course it's not. Sam Scott plays for York as he did last season. It's not like he's an unknown player in the Championship, he's been around the league for years. It looks like they've scraped data from the Love Rugby League website, errors and all.

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2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Whats the excuses from clubs who have been playing Rugby League for over 100 years and still running at a loss?

It certainly can't be start up costs

I didn't realise the game was the same as it was back then and the same chairmen were involved?

Every new initiative has a start up cost. Every takeover has start up costs. Do you think clubs should have a pot of money that they sit on and wait to decide what to do with? That's actually terrible business practice because they'd end up getting taxed on it.

 


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3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

No cheap jibe at all, but based on this fact.  Are you saying that 10 of these names didn’t play?

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seasons/second-division-2019/featherstone-rovers/summary.html

Of course I am. I am a statistician and my work is more rigorous than that website that should know better than to include pre-season friendlies with trialists and juniors in the list of official fixtures. 42 players. Thats a fact. Oh, and it was a cheap jibe. 

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1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said:

Of course I am. I am a statistician and my work is more rigorous than that website that should know better than to include pre-season friendlies with trialists and juniors in the list of official fixtures. 42 players. Thats a fact. Oh, and it was a cheap jibe. 

No shortage of them on this thread. 

BTW Has anyone thought what would have become of Ashton Goulding if he hadn't been playing for Fev?  Leeds clearly didn't want him.  This brilliant player may have been lost to the game entirely.  He's been excellent for us, wish we could keep him, but he's off to pastures new.  Good luck to him.

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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12 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I didn't realise the game was the same as it was back then and the same chairmen were involved?

Every new initiative has a start up cost. Every takeover has start up costs. Do you think clubs should have a pot of money that they sit on and wait to decide what to do with? That's actually terrible business practice because they'd end up getting taxed on it.

 

Mate we've had over a 100 years to get it right on and off the field of play and we still can't

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21 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Mate we've had over a 100 years to get it right on and off the field of play and we still can't

The field of play isn't static, it's ever changing.

Don't get me wrong, there is a huge advantage, but there are different people in charge every time making different decisions and learning new things every time against new and different challenges. It's not as black and white as people like to make out.


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22 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The field of play isn't static, it's ever changing.

Don't get me wrong, there is a huge advantage, but there are different people in charge every time making different decisions and learning new things every time against new and different challenges. It's not as black and white as people like to make out.

Some people say London has had nearly 40 years to get it right and haven't.

We have had over 120 years to get it right and haven't

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31 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

Re: attendance numbers

According to the Howlin Hour, there were many more than the announced attendance and the Wolfpack have been fined for being over capacity. 

Has MoK been consulted?

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12 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Of course I am. I am a statistician and my work is more rigorous than that website that should know better than to include pre-season friendlies with trialists and juniors in the list of official fixtures. 42 players. Thats a fact. Oh, and it was a cheap jibe. 

? ok point taken Mark.  No cheap jibe intended at all - that is fact too.

RLP will only be able to go off what they are given from each club.  In your opinion why would those numbers be so far out?

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

? ok point taken Mark.  No cheap jibe intended at all - that is fact too.

RLP will only be able to go off what they are given from each club.  In your opinion why would those numbers be so far out?

No biggie, I do like my stats, so I'm touchy on this point. ?

The difference in the case of FR in 2019 is 7 players who played in the Yorkshire Cup match. That was a friendly, not an official game. Plus Cam Sutcliffe (invented amalgam of Cam Smith and Alex Sutcliffe??) and Sam Scott as mentioned. 51-those 9 = 42.

Nowt to do with you, but inaccurate/lazy stats is a bit of a bugbear of mine. It takes a bit of time to get it right, but it's worth it I feel. There are moves to reform the pioneering Record Keepers' Club of the 1970s for the online digital age. If that happens, it would be superb. The work will be based, as always, on volunteers rather than the clubs themselves.

FWIW RL project is a great idea, brainchild of one guy from Australia, who is in regular contact on FB. It's hugely over-ambitious and unless you get two or three dedicated stattoes from every single club on the case then the lack of scrutiny and analysis means too many errors creep in and it becomes a bit worthless.

The same on Loverugbyleague website. Nice idea, but too many errors so what's the point.

There's a guy working tremendously hard on wikipedia. Also, a huge job.

The best (only really reliable) UK RL statistics come from League Express/LPL with their weekly paper and the yearbook.

 

 

** Obviously when I stay stats here Im talking about tries, goals, appearances, career records, season by season. Im not referring to match stats such as yardage, tackles, errors etc, the type of thing done by OPTA, SKY etc.

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4 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Some people say London has had nearly 40 years to get it right and haven't.

We have had over 120 years to get it right and haven't

But let's be honest, you will never have the view that they have got it right.

Because ultimately there is no right and wrong. 

All we can do is the very best we can. 

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5 hours ago, Michael1812 said:

Re: attendance numbers

According to the Howlin Hour, there were many more than the announced attendance and the Wolfpack have been fined for being over capacity. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, it was packed. I know I counted to 12,021 then someone moved and messed up my count.

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23 minutes ago, Damien said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, it was packed. I know I counted to 12,021 then someone moved and messed up my count.

lol, don't you have it when they move unexpectedly?

I was surprised by the figure as 9,600 was the fire code capacity from my understanding. Also they don't count any kid's that are 5 and under in the headcount as they get in without a ticket and there's definitely 100 or so kids at the game.

 

crazy eh. we get more kids under r5 at a game than some clubs get on total attendance...just realized that.

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On ‎06‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:32, DimmestStar said:

The real success of Toronto Wolfpack has been the consistently high crowds they have attracted.

TBH if a  very rich man spends very large amounts of money it really shouldn't be too difficult to assemble a team better than what the second tier of Rugby League has to offer. It could have been done anywhere Toronto, Batley or Timbuktu.

What has been remarkable has been the steady growth in support from a base of nothing at all. The enthusiasm was plain to see and hear with the chants of 'Wolfpack' in the second half. 

Now it would be good if Toronto could be self sustaining and produce some home grown players. That takes much more time but why not? There is now a foundation to build on if David Argyle can maintain his commitment and investment.

It's what Fulham did in 1980. Basically they bought the Widnes team (who were basically over the hill in terms of 1st Division) with one or two additions.  Got them promoted and then relegated the following season, because they didn't follow up by spending more money on a (then) first division side


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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5 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Some people say London has had nearly 40 years to get it right and haven't.

We have had over 120 years to get it right and haven't

Depends what you mean by "getting it right"  what I mean is winning something.  Fulham/London have had 40 years to win something, or at least produce regularly a stream of talent.  IMO they haven't done either.  OK there's been one or two players. How many have St Pats produced in that period?


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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20 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

crazy eh. we get more kids under r5 at a game than some clubs get on total attendance...just realized that.

Don't you just hate how the Wolfpack keep spreading the game to the next generation of players.

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I think the final was a fair reflection on the Championship season as a whole - Toronto just too good for everybody but they faced a very doggied and hardworking team. 

Toronto knew they were in for a very tough game, but also knew they had to be patient and they weren't going to score off every set. 

Although Featherstone were leading in the first half, the defensive efforts and pressure Toronto were building they were going to fade away at some point. A very good gameplan, which I wouldn't have expected anything less from Brian McDermott - who will respect Featherstone a lot from his time at Leeds. 

I don't think Toronto have to go out and get a lot of players either, I think the current team would stay up - but it would depend on how ambitious they are. They are good, progressive club - who I 'd love to see do well. They are a great story and talking point and should be proud of what they have achieved.

As for Featherstone, what an amazing turnaround this season - it';s been a rollercoaster, but came strong at the right time. On another day, if they would have had less travel time in the last week, I reckon the game would have been much closer. 

A massive well done to Toronto, really looking forward to seeing their Super League adventure.

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2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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Don't know how Wilkin keeps getting away with it.  He nuts Chissy, and all the commentators can talk about is his wisdom in not rising to Chissy's retaliation.  Wilkin should have had a yellow for that.  He should have had a red for his behaviour at P O Road


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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44 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Don't know how Wilkin keeps getting away with it.  He nuts Chissy, and all the commentators can talk about is his wisdom in not rising to Chissy's retaliation.  Wilkin should have had a yellow for that.  He should have had a red for his behaviour at P O Road

Valentine Holmes

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16 hours ago, Michael1812 said:

Re: attendance numbers

According to the Howlin Hour, there were many more than the announced attendance and the Wolfpack have been fined for being over capacity. 

This is not a shock. If the announced number was correct then it would only have been a bit more than the home opener against Swinton. However, the facility was far more crowded than that day in April. A good estimate would be somewhere between 11,000 and 12,000.

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