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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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7 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've been prepared to give Elstone a lot of leeway but I no longer think he is the person who can drive Super League forward and he seems to be too keen to listen and placate vested interests. There is no need to pay someone a substantial sum of money for that. I do think some good things have happened under his watch and we did see improvements pre Covid-19 in terms of PR with the new shows on Sky and an increased general interest, ironically partly because of Toronto and them signing SBW which is the very team he now wants to get rid of.

I'm pretty much at the same point mate, some of the stuff like PR and the branding have been positives but ironically have been half based on Toronto this year. His ambition is limited and his vision is best of what we have (but not actually what we have because that doesn't include London, Newcastle, Coventry, Toronto, Ottawa perhaps even Catalans or Toulouse you could argue).

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I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't se

Rugby League as a sport - fans, owners, administrators, the lot - gets what it deserves. There was an opportunity here, an owner who's spent £10m, a growing fanbase and a very attractive market,

To avoid the forum being swamped with dozens of individual threads about Toronto which generally all end up heading down the same rabbit hole eventually anyway, we're opening this general discussion t

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3 minutes ago, winnyason said:

My general belief is superleague/Rfl should have never said no in first place. Its seem a typical debacle which is superleague expansion model bar catalans. Quite sad and I simply can't see the superleague expanding with exception of Toulouse in the future. 

I think there was a genuine hope that they could tap into the mega rich North American sports market.

Toulouse being a large wealthy city could bring a lot to Super League in my opinion, but some people in this country want the game to remain played in the M62 corridor, Even though there is a decline in junior playing numbers in the last years

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9 minutes ago, winnyason said:

My general belief is superleague/Rfl should have never said yes in the first place. Its seems a typical debacle which is superleague expansion model bar catalans. Quite sad and I simply can't see the superleague expanding with exception of Toulouse in the future. 

I think that's probably a fair point, but we're here now and Ottawa have been accepted for next year too.

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On 31/10/2020 at 11:44, Pulga said:

The same 3 clubs taking turns at winning, those 3 clubs being the only ones being able to spend up to the salary cap. The inability to break out of an area you could throw a blanket over. Sponsorships falling, TV money falling. All games aren't broadcast. Allowing teams from villages into the top flight. 

 

Off the top of my head.

To be honest if you look at SL V the NRL Then SL should be the games way forward as its criminally under valued, invested and way off its potential.

The NRL is a closed shop  Insular, probably maxed out as far as how much bigger it can get  and let's face it based in the backside of the world in a not very (on the world stage) important country - a country that isnt really on anyone radar.

Even with SLs faults teams from North America and all the money that they could bring with them are trying to join. We also have a ( ok a couple of very small teams) clubs based in one of the top 5 world cities in London with an other in New York looking to start.

The NRL in contrast is mainly based in one smallish city on the other side of the world.

Always look on the bright side lads...

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What a hatchet job by Elstone on Toronto...he gets a few old buddies together and they prepare the snowball and Elstone will throw it.

If Toronto is not allowed back in, SL shoots itself once again and the RFL suffers injuries also...all because of the warped ego of one man.

The game needs sponsorship and a new way, something vibrant, something different from other leagues when it all restarts after the Covid.   Toronto supplies all of the above and more...its crazy to knife them (and Ottawa) at this critical time.

Its all on the line tomorrow...move proudly forward and be brave or bow and taste the whip of Elstone and his cronies right out of Game of Thrones.

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52 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

To be honest if you look at SL V the NRL Then SL should be the games way forward as its criminally under valued, invested and way off its potential.

The NRL is a closed shop  Insular, probably maxed out as far as how much bigger it can get  and let's face it based in the backside of the world in a not very (on the world stage) important country - a country that isnt really on anyone radar.

Even with SLs faults teams from North America and all the money that they could bring with them are trying to join. We also have a ( ok a couple of very small teams) clubs based in one of the top 5 world cities in London with an other in New York looking to start.

The NRL in contrast is mainly based in one smallish city on the other side of the world.

Always look on the bright side lads...

You`ve had a 125 years to do something, someone posted an old news paper article on here the other day showing how a team from Edinburgh was rejected 80 odd years ago because of travel costs, there`s been plenty of time to grow the game up there. And it has been one great big #### up from start to finish.

This isn`t a matter of us versus them, I`ll guarantee most league fans down here wish you well, I know I do.

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9 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

You`ve had a 125 years to do something, someone posted an old news paper article on here the other day showing how a team from Edinburgh was rejected 80 odd years ago because of travel costs, there`s been plenty of time to grow the game up there. And it has been one great big #### up from start to finish.

This isn`t a matter of us versus them, I`ll guarantee most league fans down here wish you well, I know I do.

I haven't been alive for 125 years marra so not sure how you work that out.

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11 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

This is really a battle of the progressive vs the regressive clubs

Let hope common sense wins the day but Elstone sure is putting the fix in...it reflects poorly on him and the goon squad that is employed/supports him....

The most important vote for League since the inception so long ago.

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1 hour ago, RobertAM said:

on the plus side Robbie E is set to announce Papa Johns agreeing to furnish exciting new toppings for that post game pizza party!!!

One more time for those with short memories:

Yummy!  Elstone would rather eat free tuna and corn pizza than share in the profits of some grooming products 😄

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Well for someone who saw the evolvement of TWP as a way to potentially open new doors for the game I am downbeat, and extremely disappointed with TWP if the reports on the ‘holes’ in TWP’s second application are being accurately reported.

I only hope that the decision making process is transparent and the decision is based solely on the content of their application rather than clubs salivating at the thought of getting an extra 1/12th of the pie.

If TWP are denied their place thorough rigorous evaluation I can live with that and life goes on, but the RFL/SL need to create some form of joint document that outlines their aspiration, expectation and delivery of strategic expansion,

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31 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Well for someone who saw the evolvement of TWP as a way to potentially open new doors for the game I am downbeat, and extremely disappointed with TWP if the reports on the ‘holes’ in TWP’s second application are being accurately reported.

I only hope that the decision making process is transparent and the decision is based solely on the content of their application rather than clubs salivating at the thought of getting an extra 1/12th of the pie.

If TWP are denied their place thorough rigorous evaluation I can live with that and life goes on, but the RFL/SL need to create some form of joint document that outlines their aspiration, expectation and delivery of strategic expansion,

Over the last 24 hours it seems to have moved from “they’re gone to it’s either Elstone or Toronto”

so there maybe hope for those who support in.

however, the little snippets that are out there about the submission, do not dispel real concerns. (Entire proposal based on Hair grooming, financial proof after reinstatement, We will decide what our punishment is.)

financials and the tyranny of distance are now secondary to the “viral curtain” that appears to be descending between many countries.

expand, yes, but Do it closer to home, it is far more, sensible, realistic and achievable,

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Well for someone who saw the evolvement of TWP as a way to potentially open new doors for the game I am downbeat, and extremely disappointed with TWP if the reports on the ‘holes’ in TWP’s second application are being accurately reported.

I only hope that the decision making process is transparent and the decision is based solely on the content of their application rather than clubs salivating at the thought of getting an extra 1/12th of the pie.

If TWP are denied their place thorough rigorous evaluation I can live with that and life goes on, but the RFL/SL need to create some form of joint document that outlines their aspiration, expectation and delivery of strategic expansion,

I also had hopes that a big ` glamorous` Canadian team would invigorate SL with their presence and ability to draw crowds, a team that every team wanted to beat, hate them if you like, even if they did not completely fulfill some of the other criteria. I just trust that Elstone is doing his job and will propose to reject them on a properly evaluated business case. There is no excuse for a half -baked proposal from LiVolsi, it would show he isn`t serious. If they reject him on these grounds I can cop that.

All efforts have to be to get Toulouse in now, 1/2 mill population, the size that SL clubs should be based out of and a document produced along the lines proposed in your last paragraph.

 

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Toronto supporters need to understand that the proposal might not be viable. As great as the city is, and as strong as the fanbase they have developed may be, the business case needs to be water tight for their inclusion. What are the additional revenues to SL from having TWP? There is a lot of hyperbole about the size of the market, and "exposure", but how does that translate into value for the league? TWP have very little content to sell to broadcasters. I really struggle to see concrete financial benefits, unless they are supported by a huge investor to see it through the long term.

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Toronto Adds Nothing To Small, Regional, Irrelevant Rugby League Competition

 Nov 02, 2020  League Freak  European Super League News  0


News keeps filtering out of the UK that Super League is finding every single possible reason not to re-admit the Toronto Wolfpack into Super League.

Despite 2020 being impacted by COVID 19, with the Super League competition turning into a shambles of unfulfilled fixtures and a draw that is being thrown together on a week to week basis, and the fact that the competition has bent over backwards to make it difficult for the two teams based outside of Great Britain to compete this year, the powers that be have decided that the competition does not need a team in Toronto any time soon.

Its understandable really…

Toronto is only a major city in North America, the biggest sporting market on planet earth. Toronto as a city has shown it can support and sustain teams in the NBA, Major League Baseball, the National Hockey League, the Canadian football League, as well as many other sporting competitions, but apart from the way the city embraced, promoted and turned up in great numbers to support the Wolfpack in the English championship, do we have any indication that the city of Toronto even likes sport at all?

I mean, what would they even add to Super League that you can’t get out of locations like Whitehaven, Bately, Dewsbury, Swinton or Sheffield? Small towns with a history of failure in their own right as opposed to the crushing costs of competing in Super League with no central funding during a Pandemic. It makes sense why you would want these exotic locations in Super League rather than Toronto. Who doesn’t want to tune in to see Whitehaven play Widnes on a Friday night from some local ground that looks like you’d need a tetanus shot to play at!

How are Super League officials supposed to get any money out of having a team based in North America anyway? To have a team based in a major city in Canada sounds expensive. Sure there are a wide range of commercial opportunities, but do any of them involve free tuna and corn pizza?

It really seems like supporters of the Toronto Wolfpack, and there are many of them based not only in Toronto, but across the world, just don’t understand what Super League is all about.

Super League is a geographically isolated oddity to people ion Great Britain. A quaint little competition playing a long lost and dying form of Rugby that people in the nation use to care about, you know, before the age of mobile phones and colour television.

Super League isn’t about attracting new supporters to the game. Its about dying with the old ones. Its about nostalgia, and thats something Toronto supporters will never understand. A vibrant new city just doesn’t get the fact that Super League is about little old towns that look like backdrops for historical movies about the downfall of society.

Toronto might be a wonderful place to live and visit and enjoy a game of Rugby League at, but does it even have a Nandos?

Super League gets exactly what it wants out of rejecting the Toronto Wolfpack at the worst possible time. It gets to stay small. It gets to be irrelevant. Less people get to watch at the administrators of Super League keep giving CPR to the rotten corpse of British Rugby League.

So keep your entire continent, your big city, your commercial opportunities and your new and committed fanbase. We have a game between Wakefield and Castelford to fire up about. Its like the Super Bowl, except no one gives a .

All the best Toronto fans.

 

http://www.leaguefreak.com/toronto-adds-nothing-to-small-regional-irrelevant-rugby-league-competition-47427/?fbclid=IwAR0yB0J2JOAGuxbyHS6-csdLzfPcLbpVgNgqcYpGeQ7jMUZMy-uN2TZWISU

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5 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

To be honest if you look at SL V the NRL Then SL should be the games way forward as its criminally under valued, invested and way off its potential.

The NRL is a closed shop  Insular, probably maxed out as far as how much bigger it can get  and let's face it based in the backside of the world in a not very (on the world stage) important country - a country that isnt really on anyone radar.

Even with SLs faults teams from North America and all the money that they could bring with them are trying to join. We also have a ( ok a couple of very small teams) clubs based in one of the top 5 world cities in London with an other in New York looking to start.

The NRL in contrast is mainly based in one smallish city on the other side of the world.

Always look on the bright side lads...

This is up there with the craziest things I've read.

The NRL could learn nothing from SL. 

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new rise.jpg

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3 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Toronto Adds Nothing To Small, Regional, Irrelevant Rugby League Competition

 Nov 02, 2020  League Freak  European Super League News  0


News keeps filtering out of the UK that Super League is finding every single possible reason not to re-admit the Toronto Wolfpack into Super League.

Despite 2020 being impacted by COVID 19, with the Super League competition turning into a shambles of unfulfilled fixtures and a draw that is being thrown together on a week to week basis, and the fact that the competition has bent over backwards to make it difficult for the two teams based outside of Great Britain to compete this year, the powers that be have decided that the competition does not need a team in Toronto any time soon.

Its understandable really…

Toronto is only a major city in North America, the biggest sporting market on planet earth. Toronto as a city has shown it can support and sustain teams in the NBA, Major League Baseball, the National Hockey League, the Canadian football League, as well as many other sporting competitions, but apart from the way the city embraced, promoted and turned up in great numbers to support the Wolfpack in the English championship, do we have any indication that the city of Toronto even likes sport at all?

I mean, what would they even add to Super League that you can’t get out of locations like Whitehaven, Bately, Dewsbury, Swinton or Sheffield? Small towns with a history of failure in their own right as opposed to the crushing costs of competing in Super League with no central funding during a Pandemic. It makes sense why you would want these exotic locations in Super League rather than Toronto. Who doesn’t want to tune in to see Whitehaven play Widnes on a Friday night from some local ground that looks like you’d need a tetanus shot to play at!

How are Super League officials supposed to get any money out of having a team based in North America anyway? To have a team based in a major city in Canada sounds expensive. Sure there are a wide range of commercial opportunities, but do any of them involve free tuna and corn pizza?

It really seems like supporters of the Toronto Wolfpack, and there are many of them based not only in Toronto, but across the world, just don’t understand what Super League is all about.

Super League is a geographically isolated oddity to people ion Great Britain. A quaint little competition playing a long lost and dying form of Rugby that people in the nation use to care about, you know, before the age of mobile phones and colour television.

Super League isn’t about attracting new supporters to the game. Its about dying with the old ones. Its about nostalgia, and thats something Toronto supporters will never understand. A vibrant new city just doesn’t get the fact that Super League is about little old towns that look like backdrops for historical movies about the downfall of society.

Toronto might be a wonderful place to live and visit and enjoy a game of Rugby League at, but does it even have a Nandos?

Super League gets exactly what it wants out of rejecting the Toronto Wolfpack at the worst possible time. It gets to stay small. It gets to be irrelevant. Less people get to watch at the administrators of Super League keep giving CPR to the rotten corpse of British Rugby League.

So keep your entire continent, your big city, your commercial opportunities and your new and committed fanbase. We have a game between Wakefield and Castelford to fire up about. Its like the Super Bowl, except no one gives a .

All the best Toronto fans.

 

http://www.leaguefreak.com/toronto-adds-nothing-to-small-regional-irrelevant-rugby-league-competition-47427/?fbclid=IwAR0yB0J2JOAGuxbyHS6-csdLzfPcLbpVgNgqcYpGeQ7jMUZMy-uN2TZWISU

Mr Rugger, take a bow.  That for me is the most outstanding post of this thread. 

However, I believe a slight amendment is needed to the first sentence in paragraph 7.  It should read ‘Super League is a geographically isolated oddity to people 50 miles as the crow flies to the east and west of Leeds’.

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