Trojan Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I've had some fun but I won't call it my all time thirteen, but the greatest players who were playing in the 60's when I first took an interest, and for that matter played the game (U17 back row forward) 1 Ken Thornett (Aussie played for Leeds early 60's) 2 Tom Van Vollenhoven (no problem there) 3 Lewis Jones (best Welsh convert before Jiffy, goal kicker too) 4 Neil Fox (no problem there, my favourite player of all time(] 5 Billy Boston (no problem there, greatest wing I've ever seen) 6 David Bolton (clever player, tough a teak) 7 Don Fox (great all round footballer - and goalkicker despite Wembley '68 it was a toss up between him and Jeff Stevenson) 8 Brian McTigue (one of the greatest props of his era, also a great off loader in the tackle) 9 Bob Dagnall (Saints hooker, could shovel the ball out) 10 Jack Wilkinson (never took a backward step) 11 Dick Huddart (hands like shovels, and a great broken field runner) 12 Geoff Gunney (got to have a Hunslet player from this, the era when their terminal decline began) 13 Derek Turner (John Whitely and Vince Karalius were possibly his equal, but at this time the teenaged me supported Wakey, so he's in. Arguments welcome, but I've not much knowledge of earlier, because I never saw them, and after the introduction of limited tackles the game changed and so did the players. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbrigg Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Some good calls there, but I would have Alex Murphy in the halves. However there is a problem in that many of the people who post on here won,t have a clue about these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 15 hours ago, Trojan said: I've had some fun but I won't call it my all time thirteen, but the greatest players who were playing in the 60's when I first took an interest, and for that matter played the game (U17 back row forward) 1 Ken Thornett (Aussie played for Leeds early 60's) 2 Tom Van Vollenhoven (no problem there) 3 Lewis Jones (best Welsh convert before Jiffy, goal kicker too) 4 Neil Fox (no problem there, my favourite player of all time(] 5 Billy Boston (no problem there, greatest wing I've ever seen) 6 David Bolton (clever player, tough a teak) 7 Don Fox (great all round footballer - and goalkicker despite Wembley '68 it was a toss up between him and Jeff Stevenson) 8 Brian McTigue (one of the greatest props of his era, also a great off loader in the tackle) 9 Bob Dagnall (Saints hooker, could shovel the ball out) 10 Jack Wilkinson (never took a backward step) 11 Dick Huddart (hands like shovels, and a great broken field runner) 12 Geoff Gunney (got to have a Hunslet player from this, the era when their terminal decline began) 13 Derek Turner (John Whitely and Vince Karalius were possibly his equal, but at this time the teenaged me supported Wakey, so he's in. Arguments welcome, but I've not much knowledge of earlier, because I never saw them, and after the introduction of limited tackles the game changed and so did the players. No arguments from me. I wasn't lucky enough to see any of these players live but there are some legends in there and a couple who I have never actually heard of before. If I were to do the same thing, all the players would be from the 1980's and early 90's. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 8, 2020 Author Share Posted March 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Agbrigg said: Some good calls there, but I would have Alex Murphy in the halves. However there is a problem in that many of the people who post on here won,t have a clue about these players. for various reasons which I won't state here. I wouldn't p I 55 on Murphy if he was on fire “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Trojan said: I've had some fun but I won't call it my all time thirteen, but the greatest players who were playing in the 60's when I first took an interest, and for that matter played the game (U17 back row forward) 1 Ken Thornett (Aussie played for Leeds early 60's) 2 Tom Van Vollenhoven (no problem there) 3 Lewis Jones (best Welsh convert before Jiffy, goal kicker too) 4 Neil Fox (no problem there, my favourite player of all time(] 5 Billy Boston (no problem there, greatest wing I've ever seen) 6 David Bolton (clever player, tough a teak) 7 Don Fox (great all round footballer - and goalkicker despite Wembley '68 it was a toss up between him and Jeff Stevenson) 8 Brian McTigue (one of the greatest props of his era, also a great off loader in the tackle) 9 Bob Dagnall (Saints hooker, could shovel the ball out) 10 Jack Wilkinson (never took a backward step) 11 Dick Huddart (hands like shovels, and a great broken field runner) 12 Geoff Gunney (got to have a Hunslet player from this, the era when their terminal decline began) 13 Derek Turner (John Whitely and Vince Karalius were possibly his equal, but at this time the teenaged me supported Wakey, so he's in. Arguments welcome, but I've not much knowledge of earlier, because I never saw them, and after the introduction of limited tackles the game changed and so did the players. Each to our own Trojan, that is what makes sport so debatable, it's personal! But not in a selection you make (thats yours) would I discuss anything with you but a statement, after your selection of Lewis Jones you say the best Welsh convert before Jiffy, but one convert I always admired was David (Dai) Watkins at Salford he came North in '67, being the current Welsh and I think RU Lions captain he commanded a record club fee, and therefore was paid quite considerably more than a lot of his opponents, being quite jealous of his earning power they wanted to show "this poncy boy from Wales a thing or two" so they were out to give him a "bit of what for" the rules then as us old timers are well aware was lets say a little more leniant than today's much more sanitized version of Rugby League Football, reputedly I seem to recall it was over 4 seasons before he missed his first game from making his debut, he was good, fast, elusive and a hard lad with it, and went on to play for both Wales and GB. Just my take on your statement about Welsh converts, I am sure others will have their own favourites (any position) who have come up from the valley's between Lewis and Jiffy, I look forward to seeing any other interpretations from other poster's. PS, how do you go from supporting Wakey to supporting Fev, just wondering? PPS, I will be in the Last Orders pre the Leigh match, do you get in the there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC77 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Trojan said: for various reasons which I won't state here. I wouldn't p I 55 on Murphy if he was on fire Seen the vid of his greatest XIII...my god he’s a big head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, DC77 said: Seen the vid of his greatest XIII...my god he’s a big head. TBH that's what prompted my post, I agree 100% “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agbrigg Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I hated Murphy when he was a player. His tactics and attitude were despicable ,I agree. However he did have great talent and would go out to win at all costs. I think an Alex Murphy in his prime today would give us a real chance against the Aussies albeit the tactics may not be everyone's choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 A team of Welsh Converts of My Era 1. Jonathan Davies 2. John Bevan 3. Allan Bateman 4. John Devereux 5. Maurice Richards 6. David Watkins 7. Kevin Ellis 8. Paul Moriarty 9. Tony Fisher 10. Rowland Phillips 11. Glyn Shaw 12. John Mantle 13. Kel Coslett Bench 14. John Warlow 15. Dai Young 16. Rob Ackerman 17. Phil Ford Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Wolford6 said: A team of Welsh Converts of My Era 1. Jonathan Davies 2. John Bevan 3. Allan Bateman 4. John Devereux 5. Maurice Richards 6. David Watkins 7. Kevin Ellis 8. Paul Moriarty 9. Tony Fisher 10. Rowland Phillips 11. Glyn Shaw 12. John Mantle 13. Kel Coslett Bench 14. John Warlow 15. Dai Young 16. Rob Ackerman 17. Phil Ford Wouldn't argue with any of that. I wish Kevin Ellis had stayed instead of going back, I thought he was a great buy by Wire. Jonathan Davies goes without question. The Welsh provided RL with some great talent, pity it can't be done today, but there you go. I missed Berwyn Jones from my list - he was extremely quick, but then being an Olympic sprinter he would be. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I left out Jim Mills, Bobby Wanbon, Mike Nicholas and mark Jones because, if the oppostion was soft, they'd have to fight each other. At the Bulls, Gerald Cordle ran in quicker to join a fight than he ever did with the ball in his hand. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 18 hours ago, Trojan said: 12 Geoff Gunney (got to have a Hunslet player from this, the era when their terminal decline began) Brian Edgar would be my choice in this position. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, Wolford6 said: A team of Welsh Converts of My Era 1. Jonathan Davies 2. John Bevan 3. Allan Bateman 4. John Devereux 5. Maurice Richards 6. David Watkins 7. Kevin Ellis 8. Paul Moriarty 9. Tony Fisher 10. Rowland Phillips 11. Glyn Shaw 12. John Mantle 13. Kel Coslett Bench 14. John Warlow 15. Dai Young 16. Rob Ackerman 17. Phil Ford Did Stuart Ferguson come into your consideration Woolly, not a bad winger by any standards and kicked goals for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Each to our own Trojan, that is what makes sport so debatable, it's personal! But not in a selection you make (thats yours) would I discuss anything with you but a statement, after your selection of Lewis Jones you say the best Welsh convert before Jiffy, but one convert I always admired was David (Dai) Watkins at Salford he came North in '67, being the current Welsh and I think RU Lions captain he commanded a record club fee, and therefore was paid quite considerably more than a lot of his opponents, being quite jealous of his earning power they wanted to show "this poncy boy from Wales a thing or two" so they were out to give him a "bit of what for" the rules then as us old timers are well aware was lets say a little more leniant than today's much more sanitized version of Rugby League Football, reputedly I seem to recall it was over 4 seasons before he missed his first game from making his debut, he was good, fast, elusive and a hard lad with it, and went on to play for both Wales and GB. Just my take on your statement about Welsh converts, I am sure others will have their own favourites (any position) who have come up from the valley's between Lewis and Jiffy, I look forward to seeing any other interpretations from other poster's. PS, how do you go from supporting Wakey to supporting Fev, just wondering? PPS, I will be in the Last Orders pre the Leigh match, do you get in the there? TBH I’d forgotten about Watkins. He was a great player and a great buy for Salford. Three huge Welsh stars, from different eras who all put their lives and reputations on the line, don’t forget, there was no going back! Lewis Jones played with a silver plate in his forearm, as you say Watkins was a marked man, but they never got him, Same goes for Jiffy, I recall a Union commentator cattily saying when he signed for Widnes “the league boys’ll soon flatten that nose” They didn’t although Laurie Daley had a damned good try at Old Trafford in 1989. Davies was a talented clever footballer, in a league game at P O Road, Widnes were awarded a penalty in their own 25yd area at the Railway end. The Fev players, unprofessionally, turned their backs and began trotting down the field, anticipating the touch finder. Instead, Davies tapped the ball and ran 50 yards before dozey Fev realised what was happening. Widnes scored on the next play. Your question about switching support is one I always try to avoid, but switch I did 40 years ago. When I was a kid my mother who was from Hemsworth (between Pontefract and Barnsley) would take me once a month to visit the relatives. They were all Rovers fans, and if we went out into the back field to play rugby, they always wanted to be Fev. Contrarily on the way home in the RL season, the bus would pass Belle Vue. And I’d see the crowds as the game was ending, and line up of buses outside the ground waiting to take the spectators away. I definitely wanted a part of that. My mates at school were all Leeds fans, one mate Stan wanted to be Lewis Jones (Stan played later for Batley) But I’d seen Neil Fox on TV so became a Wakey fan. On Boxing Day 1960 Leeds played Wakey at Headingley and I had 2/6 on Wakey with Stan. It was the first live RL game I ever saw, and Wakey won. The next game was the 2nd round 1961 cup tie v Wigan. 28K in Belle Vue, can you imagine that? Wigan won 2-0 but I was sold, The following season was possibly the best in Wakey’s history. They came within a whisker of achieving the “all four cups” feat. After that I began to playU17 RL and then Union so didn’t get to many games, but I did go to the 1979 CC Final at Wembley, Wakey lost to Widnes, but it sort of reawoke my interest in the game and I went to several League games in the 1979/80 season. But at the end of that season, the Wakefield board sold almost the entire team. The gate money remained the same but the team on the park was a travesty of the Wembley team, I thought they were taking the pi 55. So I switched to my family’s club Featherstone Rovers, that’s 40 years ago. I’ve stuck with them through thin and thinner. I don’t drink and watch rugby – I can’t but if you want to find me at P O Road, I’ll be on the wing terrace at the P O Road end next to the family stand. Good luck! Although not against Fev J “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wolford6 said: I left out Jim Mills, Bobby Wanbon, Mike Nicholas and mark Jones because, if the oppostion was soft, they'd have to fight each other. At the Bulls, Gerald Cordle ran in quicker to join a fight than he ever did with the ball in his hand. I saw Phil Ford's first game for Warrington, he played as A N Other, his centre was John Bevan, who looked after him. He looked a good prospect - he was too! “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Wolford6 said: I left out Jim Mills, Bobby Wanbon, Mike Nicholas and mark Jones because, if the oppostion was soft, they'd have to fight each other. At the Bulls, Gerald Cordle ran in quicker to join a fight than he ever did with the ball in his hand. On our little jibe at each other regarding location. The first 3 mentioned were all stalwarts of Lancashire clubs, it was a little harder over there see boyo, had to handle yourself see! Another one who comes to mind a little before these guy's but not that much was Leigh Legend Stan Owen, in the local Shaw Cup comp in '71 I lined up as a near 14stone second row 18 years old at the time and opposite was the great man himself at 42 years young, kick off and the ball was heading in my direction and Stan was 20 or so yards in front of me, right I thinks, I am going to run straight at this old ######, needless to say that was one of the worst decisions I have ever made in my life, he had spade size 10 hands one of them hit me squrely in the chest and then his fist clenched grabbing my shirt, he then proceeded to to shove and pull me still grasping the shirt and I was like a rag doll, until he got fed up of doing that so he pulled me into him, wrapped his arms in a bear hug and fell to the floor with great force me underneath trapping my head between the floor and his chiseld jaw, moaning and writhing in agony I looked up and he was standing above me, and said in his wonderful melodious Welsh tone "get up you soft B'stard'. Being the gentleman he was (argh) he came to me in the bar after the game and said "thanks I have not felt that good in ages, just thought for the first tackle I would give it a good go see, to see if I still had it in me" then promptly bought me a pint. What a guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentoffagain2 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Trojan said: Wouldn't argue with any of that. I wish Kevin Ellis had stayed instead of going back, I thought he was a great buy by Wire. Jonathan Davies goes without question. The Welsh provided RL with some great talent, pity it can't be done today, but there you go. I missed Berwyn Jones from my list - he was extremely quick, but then being an Olympic sprinter he would be. Berwyn didn't look quick coming up the hill at The Mount Batley in six inches of mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: Did Stuart Ferguson come into your consideration Woolly, not a bad winger by any standards and kicked goals for fun. I did, same with Brian Juliff, Adrian Hadley, Roy Matthias, Ray Fleay, Paul Prendiville ... all good wingers. Slightly-before-my-time Welsh players that I met were Malcolm Price (Oldham) and Terry O'Brien (Keighley). Both really nice blokes. Well-before-my-time blokes that I met were Trevor Foster and Bill Jenkins ... Both Northern and both really nice blokes. We could do with a few more Regan Graces. NB: If any of Jim Mills, Bobby Wanbon, Mike Nicholas, Mark Jones, Gerald Cordle and Brian Juliff happen to read this ... I'm really soft. Definitely not any sort of a challenge. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Wolford6 said: NB: If any of Jim Mills, Bobby Wanbon, Mike Nicholas, Mark Jones, Gerald Cordle and Brian Juliff happen to read this ... I'm really soft. Definitely not any sort of a challenge. Have a go I did (see above), you never know you may just earn a pint for your efforts, thats all though no cigar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: On our little jibe at each other regarding location. The first 3 mentioned were all stalwarts of Lancashire clubs, it was a little harder over there see boyo, had to handle yourself see! They were fuelled by jealousy and a sense of injustice. They'd given up their jobs, their friends, family and rugby union career to travel 200 miles to play RL. Only then did they realise that, after all that upheaval, they'd come 40 miles short. I did play against Tony Banham once, for Thornton v Shipley; allegedly after a stopover with HRH. Legs like tree trunks, faster than anyone else on either team.He hurt you before you got near his waist. He was that hard that it never occurred to him to be dirty against us. It would have been beneath his status. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Yorkshire Players' Club Car in the 1970's Lancashire Players' Club Car in the 1970's Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 What's the car thing about, Wolford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: What's the car thing about, Wolford? Shows how the Welsh players who went north would have been better off going to Yorkshire clubs. Still, perhaps they did manage to squeeze in extra fitness sessions from having to push their Wartburg Knights when the roads got a bit steep. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.