Championship clubs still in deadlock

[Wolford6]

Yorkshire clubs want to play, but only if fans are allowed in. 

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18549917.yorkshire-clubs-join-bradford-bulls-call-start/

Sounds like a fudge to placate the fans, whilst knowing that the government is unlikely to approve this ... at least in the short term.

[gingerjon]

51 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

Yorkshire clubs want to play, but only if fans are allowed in. 

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18549917.yorkshire-clubs-join-bradford-bulls-call-start/

Sounds like a fudge to placate the fans, whilst knowing that the government is unlikely to approve this ... at least in the short term.

It's worth pointing out that over in football they seem to be working on the assumption that some crowds will be allowed (unclear, obviously, what the means in terms of restrictions) from September.

[Wolford6]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

It's worth pointing out that over in football they seem to be working on the assumption that some crowds will be allowed (unclear, obviously, what the means in terms of restrictions) from September.

True, but our season ends in October. Presumably, so do a lot of players' contracts.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

True, but our season ends in October. Presumably, so do a lot of players' contracts.

Indeed - I was just adding the bit that seems to be missing from those club's position. If you genuinely only want to restart with crowds - and that's a valid point of view - then you have to work with the season restarting in September at the earliest.

[Wolford6]

I think the clubs will take the furlough money for as long as posible then say that the season is not worth re-starting.

Mind you, I think quite a few commercial enterprises will be doing the same.

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

Yorkshire clubs want to play, but only if fans are allowed in. 

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18549917.yorkshire-clubs-join-bradford-bulls-call-start/

Sounds like a fudge to placate the fans, whilst knowing that the government is unlikely to approve this ... at least in the short term.

From the report

Quote

But in principle, the Yorkshire Championship clubs feel it’s very important we play a few matches to interact with the season-ticket holders and general supporter base again.”

Even if crowds are allowed, the desire is for a few matches to connect with the supporters again - NOT a full season being played out. It looks more like a separate completion, for a Championship Shield or similar, rather than a full season playing for a promotion place.

Quote

Featherstone are the only one of those clubs willing to do so behind closed doors if safety concerns rule out any crowds.... “There’s no real support to play behind closed doors as we’ve said before."

So just Featherstone in favour of a full restart from this side of the Pennines

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

9 hours ago, SL17 said:

Yes, it’s a grey area.

“If the employee’s fixed term contract has not already expired, it can be extended, or renewed‘ 

The renewing part being the grey area for me.

These of course are only guidance under the scheme.

Or are they?

IMO. If you have taken furloughing you have accepted contractual changes. Fixed or Not.

The contractual changes that apply when accepting furlough are set out in the pro forma letter I linked to above. They only apply during the period of furlough and when that ends the contract reverts to the original terms. Have a read. 

[Tommygilf]

55 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

From the report

Even if crowds are allowed, the desire is for a few matches to connect with the supporters again - NOT a full season being played out. It looks more like a separate completion, for a Championship Shield or similar, rather than a full season playing for a promotion place.

So just Featherstone in favour of a full restart from this side of the Pennines

 

This is what I've been saying all along.

Batley, Dewsbury, Bradford, Halifax, York and Sheffield make up nearly half the Championship and will not vote to restart behind closed doors just so Leigh and Fev can try (and very possibly fail in the face of London and Toulouse) to win promotion if it means risking financial suicide. I'd be willing to bet that was the position of Swinton, Rochdale, Oldham and Whitehaven as well as even Widnes too. Why would they? What is in it for them?

Leigh and Fev need to be far more tactical here. Perhaps proposing a change to how funds are distributed in the Championship next season could be a way of bringing some clubs onside. That central disparity alone probably has more financial bearing on any of the clubs. They can't keep going round spouting about "pub sides" when teams in their league raise that perfectly legitimate financial point and then expect those clubs to support them.

It has never been a case of "null and voiders" vs continue. It is "restart at all costs" vs "we can't afford to do that". Leigh and Fev need to either break that dichotomy by offering an alternative or they risk forcing the opposition to vote against them as there was simply no other option.

[Griff]

14 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Settle down, I wasnt having a go. Nowhere have I read it required a change in terms and conditions so wanted to read whatever you had read.

It's way off topic.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#agreeing-to-furlough-employees

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Leigh and Fev need to be more tactical??

More like some need to grow a pair.

If Leigh and Fev want to restart the season now then they need the other teams to vote for them.

Your second line shows why they won't.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

True, but our season ends in October. Presumably, so do a lot of players' contracts.

SL contracts end on 30th. November, not sure if the same applies to the lower divisions.

[Griff]

19 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You don't need to change anything. 

The furlough scheme is just a grant to employers. Instead of paying you £0 for zero hours, or laying you off because they have no work for you, they pay you 80% and claim that sum from HM Govt. I doesn't need the employee to agree to anything. 

If, when the furlough scheme ends, there is still not enough work to make the job viable, then the usual conditions around redundancy and/or reduction of contractual terms apply.

Rugby players aren't on zero hours contracts. In the absence of an agreement to the contrary, they're entitled to their full wage.

And whilst it won't be widespread, there may be a sprinkling of Div 2 players who earn more than the furlough cap.

 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

True, but our season ends in October. Presumably, so do a lot of players' contracts.

All contracts end on 30th November. Not necessarily this year.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

12 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Leigh and Fev need to be more tactical??

More like some need to grow a pair.

Fev's latest statement is considerably more cautious than the one released a week ago

https://www.featherstonerovers.co.uk/news/rovers-officials-attend-rfl-forum-QqbWb

Rovers' priority absolutely remains on returning to the field and resuming the 2020 season, everyone at the Club will now look forward to July’s meeting where we hope we can continue to work together.

However, recent events concerning NRL side Melbourne Storm and tennis star Novak Djokovic only highlight that the sport should only return when it is in the best possible position to ensure the safety of all players and staff.

Rovers CEO Davide Longo said: “Although all Club officials are becoming frustrated with the current situation, it’s imperative that a potential return to play is done safely and all risks are managed through professional consultation and thorough planning.

“The situation is extremely fluid at the moment and a few more weeks may allow for an improved position for Clubs with reduced measures in place and a return of supporters into stadiums.“

[tms]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If Leigh and Fev want to restart the season now then they need the other teams to vote for them.

Your second line shows why they won't.

FEV have never said they want the season to star now  or playing a full season or playing behind closed doors

Featherstone Rovers Chairman Mark Campbell proposed at start date in October and expressed a solution of each club playing one another only once this season, this would have given us the best possible chance of playing in front of crowds.

Rovers CEO Davide Longo said: “Although all Club officials are becoming frustrated with the current situation, it’s imperative that a potential return to play is done safely and all risks are managed through professional consultation and thorough planning.

“The situation is extremely fluid at the moment and a few more weeks may allow for an improved position for Clubs with reduced measures in place and a return of supporters into stadiums.“

Hope that helps

[Griff]

Has anyone thought what happens if we go back into lockdown ?  Like Leicester has done today ? 

What happens then ?

[Griff]

5 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Somebody is voting for them, hence deadlock.

It's a bit like Henry Fonda in Twelve Angry Men, though, isn't it ?

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, POR said:

FEV have never said they want the season to star now  or playing a full season or playing behind closed doors

Featherstone Rovers Chairman Mark Campbell proposed at start date in October and expressed a solution of each club playing one another only once this season, this would have given us the best possible chance of playing in front of crowds.

Rovers CEO Davide Longo said: “Although all Club officials are becoming frustrated with the current situation, it’s imperative that a potential return to play is done safely and all risks are managed through professional consultation and thorough planning.

“The situation is extremely fluid at the moment and a few more weeks may allow for an improved position for Clubs with reduced measures in place and a return of supporters into stadiums.“

Hope that helps

Thanks for that. Seems like we’re effectively down to one club who are gung ho for a restart.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Griff said:

It's a bit like Henry Fonda in Twelve Angry Men, though, isn't it ?

In reverse. Start off with a bunch of people broadly agreeing with you but then ...

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Leigh and Fev need to be more tactical??

More like some need to grow a pair.

You couldn't have made my point more clearly.

Its not a pair they need, its money.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

In reverse. Start off with a bunch of people broadly agreeing with you but then ...

No - I think there was always a silent majority thinking they wouldn't bother.

This new lockdown in Leicester won't persuade folk to change their minds.  What if you spend £15,000 on three weeks' tests for training and then a new lockdown springs up in your area ?

There's no slack in the timetable for rearranged fixtures.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

27 minutes ago, Griff said:

No - I think there was always a silent majority thinking they wouldn't bother.

This new lockdown in Leicester won't persuade folk to change their minds.  What if you spend £15,000 on three weeks' tests for training and then a new lockdown springs up in your area ?

There's no slack in the timetable for rearranged fixtures.

Although racing at Leicester is still going ahead this evening despite the lockdown and the racecourse being in one of the suburbs subject to it. It will be interesting to see what happens with Leicester City's home match against Palace scheduled for Saturday.....

[Blind side johnny]

20 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Ah the Brexit quip which I said it was at the time, are you one of those poor losers hankering for revenge johnny?

Still stuck in your binary world, Harry?

[Blind side johnny]

20 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

So when a player says'' look I know we only played a few games last year and you need to make cuts to recover shortfalls, but here is my contract you are obliged to pay and I expect you to pay it'' - what do you do

Obviously you take much greater care when you get future contracts written, or read them before signing them.

[Blind side johnny]

8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It's worth pointing out that over in football they seem to be working on the assumption that some crowds will be allowed (unclear, obviously, what the means in terms of restrictions) from September.

You mean the top two layers of football, of course, not those to whom playing behind closed doors would have been finacial suicide?