Championship clubs still in deadlock

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, RigbyLuger said:

Well, mutually terminated.

That's not what you implied though, is it?

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

FFS Griff, I wouldn't want any club to go out of buisness, that is why the suggestion is make up your own mind, play on in an organised restructuring of the fixtures or clubs to abandon the season without penalty if they so wish.

Harry - the fewer clubs take part, the bigger the justification for denying promotion.

A five club competition won't cut it.

Hence the bluster.

[Griff]

46 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Fine line. Not sure how legal action works when furloughed.

Contracts stand whether or not furloughed.  Unless folk agree otherwise - which is what usually happens.

Furloughing is about the Government subsidising wages.  It doesn't vary employment contracts.  Employers have no right to start paying you 20% less without your consent.

This applies to everyone.  Not just rugby players.

Something you might like to take up with your boss if he decides to make you redundant.

[gittinsfan]

40 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That's not what you implied though, is it?

But what would have happened if the the players had'nt agreed to terminate.The two who held out came in for a lot of criticism.

[Griff]

13 minutes ago, SL17 said:

That’s my point. So to be furloughed in the first place you may have had to change. your contract.

Not may.  Must.

It's a condition of the grant.

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, gittinsfan said:

But what would have happened if the the players had'nt agreed to terminate.The two who held out came in for a lot of criticism.

I don't know what would have happened do you?

As you say two player's thought that it was in their interest to "hold out" and not agree to the proposals to terminate their contracts, I should have thought though if they considered they had a cast iron case that would not only honour their contract in full but to compensate them for any loss of earnings and court costs they would have taken it a definative conclusion, that they didn't do that suggests the proposal they were offered were fair and just.

Nothing whatsoever as the statement of "Ripping up Contracts" implies.

 

[whatmichaelsays]

33 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not sure you do need to change the contract.

You are just furloughed. You accept the furlough or not. It doesnt really affect anything else.

You don't need to change anything. 

The furlough scheme is just a grant to employers. Instead of paying you £0 for zero hours, or laying you off because they have no work for you, they pay you 80% and claim that sum from HM Govt. I doesn't need the employee to agree to anything. 

If, when the furlough scheme ends, there is still not enough work to make the job viable, then the usual conditions around redundancy and/or reduction of contractual terms apply.

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yes and so do you. When Derek embarrassed the sport throwing his very public hissy fit and threatening to put the club in to admin if players didnt accept less than he was contracted to pay them.

You remember that year when your club couldnt put a full team out and needed dispensation to finish the year. Because you failed to challenge for promotion and playing in a competition with championship clubs is so far beneath you and to be treated with such disdain that they just stopped bothering.

You know, that year.

 

You placed a laughing emoji when I answered Tommy on the same subject, I will say the same to you, I have a big advantage over you I witnessed those charlatans week in week out effectively stealing the money they were being paid in good faith to provide a service they decided to abandon.

C'mon Scotchy you tell us you know everything about the game, if you do, you couldn't deny that team which was assembled by Leigh in your words "playing in a competition with clubs so far beneath us" should have failed to even make the play-offs and suffer all the financial implications associated with that, a lot if those player's were on 2 year contracts and couldn't have been paid the following year, had I been Mr Beaumont my 'Hissy Fit' may just have extended to walking away and say bhugger it!

[dkw]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You placed a laughing emoji when I answered Tommy on the same subject, I will say the same to you, I have a big advantage over you I witnessed those charlatans week in week out effectively stealing the money they were being paid in good faith to provide a service they decided to abandon.

C'mon Scotchy you tell us you know everything about the game, if you do, you couldn't deny that team which was assembled by Leigh in your words "playing in a competition with clubs so far beneath us" should have failed to even make the play-offs and suffer all the financial implications associated with that, a lot if those player's were on 2 year contracts and couldn't have been paid the following year, had I been Mr Beaumont my 'Hissy Fit' may just have extended to walking away and say bhugger it!

I think legally you would really struggle to cancel a contract because the fans though they werent playing well. 

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, SL17 said:

Fine line. Not sure how legal action works when furloughed.

Its a fixed term contract - no contracts can simply be "torn up" by one party. This is quite different from a regular open-ended contract of employment.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think legally you would really struggle to cancel a contract because the fans though they werent playing well. 

We both know that is not the case, that is just the opinion of this one fan.

It is well noted that you despise all things Leigh dk including the Owner, have a read of the link below it may not persuade you any otherwise, but in his own words Mr Beaumont gives his version of the events.

2 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Well, mutually terminated.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://leighrl.co.uk/wp/v2/blog/2018/11/29/a-statement-from-derek-beaumont-owner-of-leigh-centurions-2/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwib56_x7qbqAhW5QEEAHeCWApcQFjALegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3jvbzIWwDZ1SGa4FQQNDbc&ampcf=1

 

 

[Blind side johnny]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

If as suggested by some that a vote should be a simple choice of either abandon or play on what is wrong with the terminology:-

A binary vote allows only one answer from two possibilities, e.g. Yes/No. In order to win in a binary vote, you need to obtain a simple majority (half the total number of votes, plus one).

Please educate me if I am wrong, always willing to learn.

Track back through your long line of posts on this topic HS. You compared some with leavers/remainers where only one outcome was possible and should be accepted. Then you try to introduce nuance so that a majority wouldn't simply win the vote. Is this the simple application of logic that you now imply or an attempt to bend interpretations to suit your preferred outcome?

BTW, for the avoidance of doubt, my preferred outcome is for the resumption and completion of the league in front of a paying audience, not for an early abandonment.

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

We both know that is not the case, that is just the opinion of this one fan.

It is well noted that you despise all things Leigh dk including the Owner, have a read of the link below it may not persuade you any otherwise, but in his own words Mr Beaumont gives his version of the events.

 

A lovely totally balanced statement by the delightful and totally trustworthy degsy....

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

38 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think legally you would really struggle to cancel a contract because the fans though they werent playing well. 

The problem wasn't the players it was having the wrong backroom staff in at the start of the season following on from the previous season's relegation - now who's fault was that? Leigh lost 3 of their first 4 games before the coach resigned and then lost their next 2. After that they won 15 of the remaining 17 (hardly indicative of the players not giving one) with both loses to TWP IIRC.

[gittinsfan]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I don't know what would have happened do you?

As you say two player's thought that it was in their interest to "hold out" and not agree to the proposals to terminate their contracts, I should have thought though if they considered they had a cast iron case that would not only honour their contract in full but to compensate them for any loss of earnings and court costs they would have taken it a definative conclusion, that they didn't do that suggests the proposal they were offered were fair and just.

Nothing whatsoever as the statement of "Ripping up Contracts" implies.

 

I don't know that's why I asked the question.I assumed Mr Beaumont would have made it clear,but had'nt seen any statement from him.

[Griff]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not sure you do need to change the contract.

You are just furloughed. You accept the furlough or not. It doesnt really affect anything else.

 

4 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You don't need to change anything. 

The furlough scheme is just a grant to employers. Instead of paying you £0 for zero hours, or laying you off because they have no work for you, they pay you 80% and claim that sum from HM Govt. I doesn't need the employee to agree to anything. 

If, when the furlough scheme ends, there is still not enough work to make the job viable, then the usual conditions around redundancy and/or reduction of contractual terms apply.

OK lads, well I suppose it's not important as regards this thread but it's not what HMRC say on their website.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, gittinsfan said:

I don't know that's why I asked the question.I assumed Mr Beaumont would have made it clear,but had'nt seen any statement from him.

Didn't he take a step back when the contract situation was sorted, anyway we will all have to wait he has promised to put it all in book when the time comes.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Track back through your long line of posts on this topic HS. You compared some with leavers/remainers where only one outcome was possible and should be accepted. Then you try to introduce nuance so that a majority wouldn't simply win the vote. Is this the simple application of logic that you now imply or an attempt to bend interpretations to suit your preferred outcome?

BTW, for the avoidance of doubt, my preferred outcome is for the resumption and completion of the league in front of a paying audience, not for an early abandonment.

Ah the Brexit quip which I said it was at the time, are you one of those poor losers hankering for revenge johnny?

[Griff]

35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Do you have a link

Oh - of course.  It's not real if there's no link.

I mioght do if I find time.  But it won't be tonight.

It's not at the top of my "to do" list.

But it's public information - you can Google Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme just as easily as me.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Can we talk about some other championship clubs:) for a change 

Any news on SWINTON SHEFFIELD/BATLEY DEWSBURY ?

P 

[sweaty craiq]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Your entire premise is pathetic and ridiculous and Beaumont should have been banned from RL.

Beaumont screwed up and then bullied the players in to taking the hit.

Just maneuvered my way around your bovine droppings

[sweaty craiq]

5 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You don't need to change anything. 

The furlough scheme is just a grant to employers. Instead of paying you £0 for zero hours, or laying you off because they have no work for you, they pay you 80% and claim that sum from HM Govt. I doesn't need the employee to agree to anything. 

If, when the furlough scheme ends, there is still not enough work to make the job viable, then the usual conditions around redundancy and/or reduction of contractual terms apply.

So when a player says'' look I know we only played a few games last year and you need to make cuts to recover shortfalls, but here is my contract you are obliged to pay and I expect you to pay it'' - what do you do

[Gooleboy]

28 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Can we talk about some other championship clubs:) for a change 

Any news on SWINTON SHEFFIELD/BATLEY DEWSBURY ?

P 

I didn't know they had merged!

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

A pro forma furloughing 'amended contract' letter   https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-024-6188?originationContext=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1&view=hidealldraftingnotes

[sweaty craiq]

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I've bolded the important bit for you. 

 

But missed answering the question