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Possible 17-man line-ups for the promotion challengers


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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

1/ 3 times as we had the summer bash fixture

2/ we will never know but with TW fixtures removed we finish top and by far the form team with the 2 Aussies signed to add, plus the CC benchmark of beating Salford

3/ That’s why I said after the first 7 or so games

 

 

But.... maybe the TW games toughened you up and that was the reason that you hit some form. If you didn't play TW then maybe you never hit form and end up in Champ 1.

Edited by The Blues Ox
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This has been a labour of love to compile so I hope I can be excused starting it on a separate thread. These are the 7 clubs who are still in contention for the SL promotion spot (wasn't sure if Widne

Fev, Leigh, Toulouse best squads which is what was panning out this season. Fev relatively easy upgrade to full time with existing players, so I reckon all three would need 7-10 players depending on t

Looking at those teams it makes me quietly confident that Fax will compete next season. Looking at the teams Bradford and London are clearly the weakest by some distance. Ive seen nowt yet to change m

Sadly this topic has been derailed somewhat into a debate about how good Leigh were or weren't at various times.

A reminder that we were talking about whether or not part-time or hybrid teams can compete with full-time teams over an extended period.

My POV remains that it's more down to talent rather than whether or not the team is full-time or not. If you watch, say, Fev v Toulouse over the last couple of years, or York v London this year (or almost anyone against the full-time team Sheffield turned out for a while),  you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell which team was full time. I'm not saying that being full time isn't an advantage, of course it is, but it's talent rather than anything else that tends to separate the good teams from the lesser ones.

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19 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Sadly this topic has been derailed somewhat into a debate about how good Leigh were or weren't at various times.

A reminder that we were talking about whether or not part-time or hybrid teams can compete with full-time teams over an extended period.

My POV remains that it's more down to talent rather than whether or not the team is full-time or not. If you watch, say, Fev v Toulouse over the last couple of years, or York v London this year (or almost anyone against the full-time team Sheffield turned out for a while),  you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell which team was full time. I'm not saying that being full time isn't an advantage, of course it is, but it's talent rather than anything else that tends to separate the good teams from the lesser ones.

Didn't FT London beat York this year? York were on zero points before the season was cut short.

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2 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

Didn't FT London beat York this year? York were on zero points before the season was cut short.

They played them twice, once in the Cup, once in the league. York won by 2 points at London in the CC and London won by 6 points in the league game. In other words, there was next to nothing between the full-time team and the part-time team - and yes, a part-time team who were winless in the league before the season was cut short (albeit after a tough opening schedule).

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58 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

With P&R confirmed for 2021, who wants to go up?

Certainly has the appearance of a poisoned chalice.

Ironically, there's an extra reason why fans of Leigh, Toulouse, Fev, maybe York etc might be disappointed if Bradford got the nod. If Fev weren't selected I'd like to see Leigh or Toulouse out of our way for the forthcoming Championship campaign. Sticking a team that doesn't look guaranteed to be top 5 contenders wouldn't help make promotion any easier.

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On 13/11/2020 at 13:46, The Phantom Horseman said:

This has been a labour of love to compile so I hope I can be excused starting it on a separate thread. These are the 7 clubs who are still in contention for the SL promotion spot (wasn't sure if Widnes have declared their intention yet?).

I think it was a great idea for one of the criteria.

On the face of it, it doesn't necessarily push one of them forward to any great degree but even a nudge might help win by a nose.

" .......means always being with the oppressed and never the oppressors."-- Marek Edelman

 

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On 13/11/2020 at 14:07, sweaty craiq said:

Good attempt there pal, think Blake Wallace is seen as FB with Ryan covering HB/FB. Will run 1 hooker imo and move Ellis there to rest hood. Next few announcements will be backs plus Ben Flower, Inu is a heavy rumour.

What about Greg McNally still one if the best link-in full backs right or left, he has been instrumental  in most of the moves that result in Leigh tries.

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On 14/11/2020 at 19:11, LeytherRob said:

I don't think you can really put Leigh's 2015 performance down to a lack of talent. We beat Salford, Wakefield and gave Warrington a real scare in the challenge cup that year. We were fairly comfortably ahead against HKR at half time in game 1 in the 8s and when they pipped us the heads just went. 

If anything, in 2015 the squad was poorly managed, so much focus went on the challenge cup run and we went way too hard on the regular season, running up cricket scores most weeks that we just had nothing left in the tank come September. 

Squad rotation problem or lack of it throughout the season, Rowley played his best available 13 in every game we had injuries going into the 8's and expecting player's who had not had much game time to step up.

PS, I see that both you and Gubby said much the same the further I got down the thread.

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On 14/11/2020 at 22:31, GUBRATS said:

Can any of these clubs afford to not try for SL , no guarantee there will be promotion from the Championship next year 

Sky cannot just run with a SL that is just about getting to Old Trafford it would be completely boring, they need the jeopardy games and Championship play offs, so maybe no guarantee there will be P&R but I think it will be retained.

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6 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Sadly this topic has been derailed somewhat into a debate about how good Leigh were or weren't at various times.

A reminder that we were talking about whether or not part-time or hybrid teams can compete with full-time teams over an extended period.

My POV remains that it's more down to talent rather than whether or not the team is full-time or not. If you watch, say, Fev v Toulouse over the last couple of years, or York v London this year (or almost anyone against the full-time team Sheffield turned out for a while),  you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell which team was full time. I'm not saying that being full time isn't an advantage, of course it is, but it's talent rather than anything else that tends to separate the good teams from the lesser ones.

I think any team attempting a hybrid squad would get destroyed and it really shouldn't be considered beyond maybe having PT squad players to supplement the FT squad. 

Looking at Fev's squad I would assume the following would be ok with going FT, some of them being quasi-FT already - Hall, Welham, Minns, Brown, Chisholm, Harrison, Bussey, Ferres, Jones, Parata, Day, Halton, Ferguson (although I dont think he'll make the starting line).

Players such as Davies, Hardcastle, Lockwood, Gale, Blackmore etc I'm not sure on their personal situations or preferences but you could assume some would take on a FT contract and others would want to stick to PT to keep their jobs. Say 3 or 4 went FT and the others dropped back to the Championship, that gives you a base FT squad of around 17. The young lads they have signed would probably only need a small bump in salary to go FT as squad players, so realistically you are looking at bringing in 5-8 players to boost the squad and bring it up to SL quality.

Say you spent 200k upgrading existing contracts to FT, you can spend the remaining 800k on those new players, or save a bit of it when the inevitable relegation comes and spend it investing.

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15 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I think any team attempting a hybrid squad would get destroyed and it really shouldn't be considered beyond maybe having PT squad players to supplement the FT squad. 

Looking at Fev's squad I would assume the following would be ok with going FT, some of them being quasi-FT already - Hall, Welham, Minns, Brown, Chisholm, Harrison, Bussey, Ferres, Jones, Parata, Day, Halton, Ferguson (although I dont think he'll make the starting line).

Players such as Davies, Hardcastle, Lockwood, Gale, Blackmore etc I'm not sure on their personal situations or preferences but you could assume some would take on a FT contract and others would want to stick to PT to keep their jobs. Say 3 or 4 went FT and the others dropped back to the Championship, that gives you a base FT squad of around 17. The young lads they have signed would probably only need a small bump in salary to go FT as squad players, so realistically you are looking at bringing in 5-8 players to boost the squad and bring it up to SL quality.

Say you spent 200k upgrading existing contracts to FT, you can spend the remaining 800k on those new players, or save a bit of it when the inevitable relegation comes and spend it investing.

Welham left Salford to go PT so not sure he'd be wanting to go FT again. On other players dropping back to the Championship there's a slight complication with their contracts. 

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13 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Welham left Salford to go PT so not sure he'd be wanting to go FT again. On other players dropping back to the Championship there's a slight complication with their contracts. 

Fair point on Welham. Care to elaborate on the complication with their contracts? Are you suggesting they might not want to leave and are entitled to remain on their current contracts? That is true although I suspect most players will want to play and that is unlikely if they stay in the squad as a PT player. In that scenario I can see some loans with Fev supplementing some of the wage, but who knows.

It would be interesting to see what Fev and York's transition plans are because I dont think they would be taken seriously if they said they were going to run PT squads.

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25 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Fair point on Welham. Care to elaborate on the complication with their contracts? Are you suggesting they might not want to leave and are entitled to remain on their current contracts? That is true although I suspect most players will want to play and that is unlikely if they stay in the squad as a PT player. In that scenario I can see some loans with Fev supplementing some of the wage, but who knows.

It would be interesting to see what Fev and York's transition plans are because I dont think they would be taken seriously if they said they were going to run PT squads.

York City Knights Chairman Jon Flatman announced on Radio York this evening that if the York City Knights bid is successful they will be 100% full time.

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7 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Fair point on Welham. Care to elaborate on the complication with their contracts? Are you suggesting they might not want to leave and are entitled to remain on their current contracts? That is true although I suspect most players will want to play and that is unlikely if they stay in the squad as a PT player. In that scenario I can see some loans with Fev supplementing some of the wage, but who knows.

It would be interesting to see what Fev and York's transition plans are because I dont think they would be taken seriously if they said they were going to run PT squads.

Those PT players are on decent contracts - likely a fair bit more than they'd get at most other clubs.. Why would they voluntarily leave for less money and why leave a good job outside of the game for what's likely (let's admit almost certainly) to be 1 year FT? Buy them out and that's less to spend on others both from the available budget and salary cap. 

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1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

London are going to have to pull some rabits out of the hat for the championship let alone SL.

Frankly I don't know where we go from here. I now have literally no idea why we would want to apply for the 12th team as whilst its laudable to promote academy players to the first team squad, I go to games to watch a competition. We now have only a handful of experienced players and as a collective we would struggle to be top 6 in Championship. Trouble is, no-one in the club is saying anything.

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8 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Those PT players are on decent contracts - likely a fair bit more than they'd get at most other clubs.. Why would they voluntarily leave for less money and why leave a good job outside of the game for what's likely (let's admit almost certainly) to be 1 year FT? Buy them out and that's less to spend on others both from the available budget and salary cap. 

I would expect some might just hang around as PT members of the squad, some would take the FT upgrade and the chance of a crack at SL and others you could probably subsidise the wage and loan out. If too many are just going to hang around as PT players and that prevents converting the squad to FT then its a waste of time applying in my opinion. Anyone applying has to be FT or its pointless.

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6 hours ago, Magic XIII said:

Frankly I don't know where we go from here. I now have literally no idea why we would want to apply for the 12th team as whilst its laudable to promote academy players to the first team squad, I go to games to watch a competition. We now have only a handful of experienced players and as a collective we would struggle to be top 6 in Championship. Trouble is, no-one in the club is saying anything.

Blimey you've changed your tune 🤔. When I was saying this a few days ago on the promotion criteria thread you were saying "wait until the end of November, plenty of room on the cap, promoting lads from the academy is a positive thing , you're going to get a shock when we get in etc." What changed?

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1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Blimey you've changed your tune 🤔. When I was saying this a few days ago on the promotion criteria thread you were saying "wait until the end of November, plenty of room on the cap, promoting lads from the academy is a positive thing , you're going to get a shock when we get in etc." What changed?

The fact we let Dixon go made a big statement to me, sort of took the wind out of my sails and made me reflect. I have literally no idea now.

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