International RL Eligibility - Update

[welshmagpie]

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[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Scotland could really put together a half decent side here. It begs the question why are we not playing an annual European Championships, the last I believe was in 2018. We should have an annual competition similar to the Oceania Cup where whoever finishes bottom in Group A swaps places with the winner of Group B. After the World Cup from 2022 I’d like to see this competition resume with the following groups.

Group A - England Knights, France, Scotland, Ireland 

Group B- Wales, Italy, Greece, Serbia 

[welshmagpie]

12 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Scotland could really put together a half decent side here. It begs the question why are we not playing an annual European Championships, the last I believe was in 2018. We should have an annual competition similar to the Oceania Cup where whoever finishes bottom in Group A swaps places with the winner of Group B. After the World Cup from 2022 I’d like to see this competition resume with the following groups.

Group A - England Knights, France, Scotland, Ireland 

Group B- Wales, Italy, Greece, Serbia 

One thing people will realise once it’s all out there is that Ireland, Scotland and to a lesser extent Wales can ALL put out pretty handy sides, you know handy enough to develop, grow and test England over time. We just need the powers that be to wake up and realise this.

[Eddie]

47 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

One thing people will realise once it’s all out there is that Ireland, Scotland and to a lesser extent Wales can ALL put out pretty handy sides, you know handy enough to develop, grow and test England over time. We just need the powers that be to wake up and realise this.

Yes they could in theory put a decent team out in a Scottish shirt, but it wouldn’t be a Scottish team, just a load of lads from Lancs and Yorks with a Scottish parent or grandparent who aren’t good enough to play for England, that nobody in Scotland cares about. Unless they have at least half Scottish born players it seems pointless to me. I’d rather England played France or Wales, who have home grown players. 

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yes they could in theory put a decent team out in a Scottish shirt, but it wouldn’t be a Scottish team, just a load of lads from Lancs and Yorks with a Scottish parent or grandparent who aren’t good enough to play for England, that nobody in Scotland cares about. Unless they have at least half Scottish born players it seems pointless to me. I’d rather England played France or Wales, who have home grown players. 

The swines, proud of heritage etc just a bunch of ne'erdowell hangers on.

[The Future is League]

17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yes they could in theory put a decent team out in a Scottish shirt, but it wouldn’t be a Scottish team, just a load of lads from Lancs and Yorks with a Scottish parent or grandparent who aren’t good enough to play for England, that nobody in Scotland cares about. Unless they have at least half Scottish born players it seems pointless to me. I’d rather England played France or Wales, who have home grown players. 

For me i see no value in having a squad full of heritage players. It does nothing for the game in that country or the game as a whole.

Every squad at this world cup should have at the very least half of their squad born in the country they are playing for and have a local competition with at the very least 6 teams in it.

[Sports Prophet]

No one from England seemed to care when a team of South Africans wearing the three lions won the Ashes.

I think too many people get hung up on the heritage thing. Usually older people, less so the kids who will be the fans of the future.

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Every squad at this world cup should have at the very least half of their squad born in the country they are playing for and have a local competition with at the very least 6 teams in it.

This is not a bad model to work with and from, though how many of the countries that now have a league presence would qualify and how long would it take to achieve the criteria?

[Eddie]

29 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The swines, proud of heritage etc just a bunch of ne'erdowell hangers on.

What are you on about? That isn’t what I was saying and you know it. 

[The Future is League]

1 minute ago, Oxford said:

This is not a bad model to work with and from, though how many of the countries that now have a league presence would qualify and how long would it take to achieve the criteria?

We need a starting point and like i have said there is no value for the game of having a squad for of heritage players

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

No one from England seemed to care when a team of South Africans wearing the three lions won the Ashes.

I think too many people get hung up on the heritage thing. Usually older people, less so the kids who will be the fans of the future.

I didn’t care when England won the Ashes full stop, but I assume the whole team wasn’t made up of South Africans who’ve never lived in England? In fact was there even one player who fell into that category? 

[Oxford]

Just now, Eddie said:

What are you on about? That isn’t what I was saying and you know it. 

 It wasn't? I must have misread something somewhere.

 

36 minutes ago, Eddie said:

but it wouldn’t be a Scottish team, just a load of lads from Lancs and Yorks with a Scottish parent or grandparent

 

[Sports Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I didn’t care when England won the Ashes full stop, but I assume the whole team wasn’t made up of South Africans who’ve never lived in England? In fact was there even one player who fell into that category? 

I don’t really know, all I really remember that  England cricket have seen their fair share of Saffas representing them and there have been plenty of examples from lots of sports of individuals representing nations where they were not born. 

The people I hear that are mostly put off by this are older rugby league fans.

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

We need a starting point and like i have said there is no value for the game of having a squad for of heritage players

I admit I was hoping for a bit more discussion than that. As a starting point we could've said the RLWC heritage will be this is a goal that comes next. The team as it stands would have that value from the get go. The idea that there is no value in a team is a common theme in RL and I do wonder what that assumption is based upon?

No value for those saying it's worth nothing? No value for the families and players involved? No value in terms of the heritage, cultural and historical make up of the sport and the British Isles? No value to anyone anywhere?

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The people I hear that are mostly put off by this are older rugby league fans.

 

[The Future is League]

7 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I admit I was hoping for a bit more discussion than that. As a starting point we could've said the RLWC heritage will be this is a goal that comes next. The team as it stands would have that value from the get go. The idea that there is no value in a team is a common theme in RL and I do wonder what that assumption is based upon?

No value for those saying it's worth nothing? No value for the families and players involved? No value in terms of the heritage, cultural and historical make up of the sport and the British Isles? No value to anyone anywhere?

 

I stand by my comments that there is no value for Rugby League of having teams at the world cup full of heritage players

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

27 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

For me i see no value in having a squad full of heritage players. It does nothing for the game in that country or the game as a whole.

Every squad at this world cup should have at the very least half of their squad born in the country they are playing for and have a local competition with at the very least 6 teams in it.

I guess you must have missed the last Rugby League World Cup. Take a look at some of Tonga’s games from that.

Our International eligibility rules are very similar to every other sport, we have no need to add fury restrictions and criteria, if you qualify to represent a Nation and you are good enough to get picked that’s enough. 

[Man of Kent]

Man, I can't wait for the World Cup. It's going to be a great year for the game (eventually!).

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

13 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The idea that there is no value in a team is a common theme in RL and I do wonder what that assumption is based upon?

No value for those saying it's worth nothing? No value for the families and players involved? No value in terms of the heritage, cultural and historical make up of the sport and the British Isles? No value to anyone anywhere?

 

It’s complete nonsense and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up, in fact on the contrary there is evidence the other way around, countries with lots of home grown players who perform poorly have less value. Take Wales and France for instance, they have more home grown players than Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Ireland and Scotland. At our recent World Cups France and Wales games had lower attendances and tv viewing figures than teams with very few home grown players.

They do not add any more value to the competition having more home grown players, teams add value to the competition with their performance on the field, not through birth certificates. 

[The Future is League]

7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I guess you must have missed the last Rugby League World Cup. Take a look at some of Tonga’s games from that.

Our International eligibility rules are very similar to every other sport, we have no need to add fury restrictions and criteria, if you qualify to represent a Nation and you are good enough to get picked that’s enough. 

No i didn't and that's the point.

How many teams in the Local competition in Tonga? I honestly don't know.

How many Tongans born players are playing in the NRL and Super League?

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I stand by my comments that there is no value for Rugby League of having teams at the world cup full of heritage players

So an RL team playing an international with pride in their cultural inheritance has no value for RL. Ah well

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

It’s complete nonsense and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up, in fact on the contrary there is evidence the other way around, countries with lots of home grown players who perform poorly have less value. Take Wales and France for instance, they have more home grown players than Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Ireland and Scotland. At our recent World Cups France and Wales games had lower attendances and tv viewing figures than teams with very few home grown players.

They do not add any more value to the competition having more home grown players, teams add value to the competition with their performance on the field, not through birth certificates. 

Fiji, Tonga and Samoa do have Fijians, Tongans and Samoans playing for them though. Jack Smith from Leigh who has a Scottish grandparent, has never been to Scotland and until he realised there’s a chance of him getting a game for Scotland couldn’t care less about his minor heritage, isn’t Scottish. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Just now, The Future is League said:

No i didn't and that's the point.

How many teams in the Local competition in Tonga? I honestly don't know.

How many Tongans born players are playing in the NRL and Super League?

There are a few Tongan born players, I’d guess there are probably a similar number to Super Rugby and English Premiership, but it’s irrelevant, see my post above. 

[Eddie]

Just now, Oxford said:

So an RL team playing an international with pride in their cultural inheritance has no value for RL. Ah well

You are fond of putting words into people’s mouths aren’t you. Can’t you understand the different between a second generation Tongan in Australia with two parents born in Tonga, and an English bloke with one Scottish grandparent? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Fiji, Tonga and Samoa do have Fijians, Tongans and Samoans playing for them though. Jack Smith from Leigh who has a Scottish grandparent, has never been to Scotland and until he realised there’s a chance of him getting a game for Scotland couldn’t care less about his minor heritage, isn’t Scottish. 

The grandparent eligibility rule exists in almost every sport. If a player had no pride in playing for a Nation they wouldn’t be picked. If say Scotland found themselves in the World Cup Semi Final this year plenty in Scotland would get behind them and support the team, I’d suggest far more than if they played only players born in Scotland and lost all their group games by 80+ points. People care about performances and results on the pitch, people do not care about birth certificate (other than a small number of RL fans) 

 

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

They do not add any more value to the competition having more home grown players, teams add value to the competition with their performance on the field, not through birth certificates. 

The whole idea of "value" is great when you want to dismiss something so long as you don't have to explain it, apparently.