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International RL Eligibility - Update


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9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Whether they care about those sports or not is irrelevant.  Measured by the number of countries involved they are all bigger sports internationally than either RU or RL.  Basketball is number 2 in the world after soccer by that measure and handball number 3.  Four of the five are regular sports in the Olympics too.

So what? You are on a UK RL forum, no one cares what those sports do and its irrelevant to perception in the UK. What is relevant is what the other major sports in the UK do, and that is broadly similar. Indeed the same applies to just about every country that RL is played to any meaningful degree, in all of those the major sports follow the same kinds of rules.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

So what? You are on a UK RL forum, no one cares what those sports do and its irrelevant to perception in the UK. What is relevant is what the other major sports in the UK do, and that is broadly similar. Indeed the same applies to just about every country that RL is played to any meaningful degree.

Again, whether or not they care is irrelevant to the truth or falsehood of statements like "all sports do the same" when quite clearly all sports do not do the same and that includes two of the world's three biggest team sports.

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4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Again, whether or not they care is irrelevant to the truth or falsehood of statements like "all sports do the same" when quite clearly all sports do not do the same and that includes two of the world's three biggest team sports.

There are God knows how many sports in the world. I don't think anybody, well evidently bar you, thought he meant literally every sport in the world. Ignoring sports that are relevant to most in the UK and instead bringing sports like Lacrosse and handball into it seems like pedantry and just being argumentative for the sake of it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Damien said:

There are God knows how many sports in the world. I don't think anybody, well evidently bar you, thought he meant literally every sport in the world. Ignoring sports that are relevant to most in the UK and instead bringing sports like Lacrosse and handball into it seems like pedantry and just being argumentative for the sake of it.

 

Just for you I looked up cricket's eligibility rules and as it happens cricket doesn't allow heritage players either.  Happy now?

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10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Just for you I looked up cricket's eligibility rules and as it happens cricket doesn't allow heritage players either.  Happy now?

At least Cricket is by far the 2nd most popular sport in the world - all the sports you mention have even less publicity than RL - and that's saying something.

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Just now, Mr Frisky said:

At least Cricket is by far the 2nd most popular sport in the world - all the sports you mention have even less publicity than RL - and that's saying something.

Wrong again, this list ranks basketball, hockey and ice hockey all ahead of RL.  Handball could well be more popular than RL too considering how widely it's played and watched; it's only below the radar of most anglophones because of its limited presence in the Anglosphere.

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19 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Just for you I looked up cricket's eligibility rules and as it happens cricket doesn't allow heritage players either.  Happy now?

I really don't care, for me it isn't a big deal. For some reason you do and are repeating yourself over and over again.

You've made your point, move on.

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Wrong again, this list ranks basketball, hockey and ice hockey all ahead of RL.  Handball could well be more popular than RL too considering how widely it's played and watched; it's only below the radar of most anglophones because of its limited presence in the Anglosphere.

Depending on the list you choose to use as your reference marra - that's the thing with just pulling up random lists to help your point.

You may be correct though, I've just looked at a list that has got Handball and Lacross as Nr1 and Nr2 sports in the world and Rugby league as the Nr240 sport in the world.... the list was the Top 250 sports played by girls under the age of 12 that no one has heard of.😋

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18 hours ago, langpark said:

Usually the words of those with zero domestic activity and 100% reliant on heritage players 👍

Spoken like someone who sits on a message board and isn't doing anything for RL.

I deal with Central America. El Salvador for example is very heavily heritage players living in Australia. Most of them grew up speaking Spanish at home as a first language though. Who are you to tell them that they aren't Salvadoran enough for your liking because they were born in Australia? Up until they went to school they probably weren't raised very differently to any other Salvadoran kid. A lot were even born there and came over very young. What of the Salvadoran players in the USA? That line is even more blurred.

Nicaragua and Honduras are 99% domestic. 

To me, as far as the players go, I see no difference. There actually has never been a discussion about heritage v domestic with any of those countries.

Don't start forcing your backwards views on people who don't even think about the distinction between domestic and heritage. You're on the outside, please stay there.

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2 hours ago, Pulga said:

Spoken like someone who sits on a message board and isn't doing anything for RL.

I deal with Central America. El Salvador for example is very heavily heritage players living in Australia. Most of them grew up speaking Spanish at home as a first language though. Who are you to tell them that they aren't Salvadoran enough for your liking because they were born in Australia? Up until they went to school they probably weren't raised very differently to any other Salvadoran kid. A lot were even born there and came over very young. What of the Salvadoran players in the USA? That line is even more blurred.

Nicaragua and Honduras are 99% domestic. 

To me, as far as the players go, I see no difference. There actually has never been a discussion about heritage v domestic with any of those countries.

Don't start forcing your backwards views on people who don't even think about the distinction between domestic and heritage. You're on the outside, please stay there.

If you don't mind me asking, how many players are there in the pro ranks in Australia who can speak either Castillian (to call "Spanish" by its correct name) or Portuguese?   Are they any who can speak Catalan?

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

If you don't mind me asking, how many players are there in the pro ranks in Australia who can speak either Castillian (to call "Spanish" by its correct name) or Portuguese?   Are they any who can speak Catalan?

I'm not sure. One or two tops. I personally think there are zero.

There's a Chilean in the Sharks setup but not sure if he speaks Spanish. Then there's Montoya at the Bulldogs who I'm pretty sure doesn't speak Spanish.

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4 hours ago, Pulga said:

Don't start forcing your backwards views on people who don't even think about the distinction between domestic and heritage. You're on the outside, please stay there.

Nobody is forcing anyone on anything mate, you need to chill a bit. Nothing screams "former high school bully" quite like your name-calling and indirect threats of violence to someone who disagrees with you. (your previous post)

To clarify: I said I support the grandparent rule and the rugby league needs it, I am a realist. All I said is that when we say certain players are "just as proud as a local" all we are doing are kidding ourselves. I accept and agree that some might be, but not all.

To cite a recent example: Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. Played for Cook Islands until NZ came knocking and then switched. 

That is entirely his right, and I am glad that instead of sitting in the grandstands, he played for the Cooks and contributed to international RL. 

But, do you think he could now look a local Cook Islander in the eye and and say "I am no less proud than you?" If you still insist "yes", then you are simply kidding yourself. That is all I am saying this whole time. 

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8 minutes ago, langpark said:

Nobody is forcing anyone on anything mate, you need to chill a bit. Nothing screams "former high school bully" quite like your name-calling and indirect threats of violence to someone who disagrees with you. (your previous post)

To clarify: I said I support the grandparent rule and the rugby league needs it, I am a realist. All I said is that when we say certain players are "just as proud as a local" all we are doing are kidding ourselves. I accept and agree that some might be, but not all.

To cite a recent example: Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. Played for Cook Islands until NZ came knocking and then switched. 

That is entirely his right, and I am glad that instead of sitting in the grandstands, he played for the Cooks and contributed to international RL. 

But, do you think he could now look a local Cook Islander in the eye and and say "I am no less proud than you?" If you still insist "yes", then you are simply kidding yourself. That is all I am saying this whole time. 

This is the fundamental problem. It is not black and white like you are making out.

CNK is a proud Cook Islander as much as he is a proud Kiwi.

Same with Andrew Fifita being proud of his Tongan and Indigenous sides.

Again, stop telling people how proud they feel. In fact, stop telling people how to feel full-stop.

 

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3 minutes ago, Pulga said:

This is the fundamental problem. It is not black and white like you are making out.

CNK is a proud Cook Islander as much as he is a proud Kiwi.

Same with Andrew Fifita being proud of his Tongan and Indigenous sides.

Again, stop telling people how proud they feel. In fact, stop telling people how to feel full-stop.

I am not telling him how to feel. He made his choice and showed us which is his preference. Why you are so in denial about that is beyond me. It is not a crime that he feels more Kiwi (therefore proud) than Cook Islander. 

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5 hours ago, langpark said:

I am not telling him how to feel. He made his choice and showed us which is his preference. Why you are so in denial about that is beyond me. It is not a crime that he feels more Kiwi (therefore proud) than Cook Islander. 

Just like when Taumololo went from Tonga to NZ and now back to Tonga right?

There's every chance CNK will be in the Cook Islands squad come WC. If so I'll be expecting an apology.

 

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6 hours ago, langpark said:

Nobody is forcing anyone on anything mate, you need to chill a bit. Nothing screams "former high school bully" quite like your name-calling and indirect threats of violence to someone who disagrees with you. (your previous post)

To clarify: I said I support the grandparent rule and the rugby league needs it, I am a realist. All I said is that when we say certain players are "just as proud as a local" all we are doing are kidding ourselves. I accept and agree that some might be, but not all.

To cite a recent example: Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. Played for Cook Islands until NZ came knocking and then switched. 

That is entirely his right, and I am glad that instead of sitting in the grandstands, he played for the Cooks and contributed to international RL. 

But, do you think he could now look a local Cook Islander in the eye and and say "I am no less proud than you?" If you still insist "yes", then you are simply kidding yourself. That is all I am saying this whole time. 

Are New Zealand born players such as Josh Papalii and Felise Kaufusi, or Fijian born players like Semi Radradra and Ukuila Uate as proud to play for Australia as the rest of the squad, or is it only players representing Nations other than Australia that are less proud?

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2 hours ago, Pulga said:

Just like when Taumololo went from Tonga to NZ and now back to Tonga right?

There's every chance CNK will be in the Cook Islands squad come WC. If so I'll be expecting an apology.

Right, so the bloke that wanted me crippled two posts ago for expressing an opinion, is now sensitive and wants an apology?

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2 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

WTF is "Southern Ireland"?

Sounds like the sort of wording my great grandfather might have used. The sort of person who talks about "coloureds" or "mongoloids".

That can't be ignorance... It must be deliberate. 

Its the part of the island of Ireland that is South of Northern Ireland- just look on a map marra.

With regards to the other words you used, maybe you won't make it to 100 posts... 91 to go...maybe..

 

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16 hours ago, langpark said:

Right, so the bloke that wanted me crippled two posts ago for expressing an opinion, is now sensitive and wants an apology?

I don't want you crippled. You just might end up that way.

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On 28/02/2021 at 07:11, Davo5 said:

Middle aged men sat at home on their keyboards passing judgement on RL players they have never met on how they feel about playing for a country they have genuine historical links to.

I have next door to no issue with players turning out for the land of their grandfathers (or whatever else is used with regards to a player's eligibility).

I am moderately chuckling at the idea that handball, which has just finished a 32 team World Cup in Egypt before beginning Olympic and Euro 2022 qualification tournaments, has an international set up that no one cares about. Similarly, the remark that hockey means nothing in the Anglosphere (I think was the phrasing) despite Great Britain's world titles and Olympic medals was amusing.

Also, nobody but ignoramuses and bigots calls anything Southern Ireland.

Where was I? Oh, yes ...

No issue at all with whatever criteria is used. What makes international rugby league eligibility a joke is the international transfer system. I know why it's there and that it's also a symptom of the wider issues about too few meaningful games but having players turn out in one tournament for one country and then deciding if they want to play for that one again or choose another does devalue the international game. And it is the one area that virtually every other sport has now massively restricted or completely eliminated. Nothing about pride or anything else.

As an example, in soccer, a player called Jamal Musiala has just declared for Germany despite having played for England at junior levels. Once he plays one second of one game for Germany at senior level that is it. He can't later decide that he is massively proud of being English and turn out for them. Nor, if one exists, could he near retirement and then decide that actually he'd like to help grow the game in [insert name of small country] by boosting their national team. It's done. (Same with Declan Rice choosing England over Ireland).

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I have next door to no issue with players turning out for the land of their grandfathers (or whatever else is used with regards to a player's eligibility).

I am moderately chuckling at the idea that handball, which has just finished a 32 team World Cup in Egypt before beginning Olympic and Euro 2022 qualification tournaments, has an international set up that no one cares about. Similarly, the remark that hockey means nothing in the Anglosphere (I think was the phrasing) despite Great Britain's world titles and Olympic medals was amusing.

Also, nobody but ignoramuses and bigots calls anything Southern Ireland.

Where was I? Oh, yes ...

No issue at all with whatever criteria is used. What makes international rugby league eligibility a joke is the international transfer system. I know why it's there and that it's also a symptom of the wider issues about too few meaningful games but having players turn out in one tournament for one country and then deciding if they want to play for that one again or choose another does devalue the international game. And it is the one area that virtually every other sport has now massively restricted or completely eliminated. Nothing about pride or anything else.

As an example, in soccer, a player called Jamal Musiala has just declared for Germany despite having played for England at junior levels. Once he plays one second of one game for Germany at senior level that is it. He can't later decide that he is massively proud of being English and turn out for them. Nor, if one exists, could he near retirement and then decide that actually he'd like to help grow the game in [insert name of small country] by boosting their national team. It's done. (Same with Declan Rice choosing England over Ireland).

Some waffle there marra... what's Soccer by the way??

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3 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Some waffle there marra... what's Soccer by the way??

It's a word invented in England in the 19th century and used since then in England and elsewhere to describe the sport of association football to differentiate it from rugby football.

Marra.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Been lurking in this tópic and as someone who isn't too old yet, I actually do think we need to be tighter on international teams. 

Mainly because I feel that if teams loaded with Australians but without a serious domestic league roll up and can beat france, it does nothing to help us grow the sport commercially or in participation.

At the very least switching nations needs to be banned. You cant be italian or a Cook islander one tournament then someone else the next. 

I also think it shows why we need to get serious about a regular tournament in Europe where we say you have to have been born in selected nation or playing in Europe, to stop the stunting of the international game.

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