The Wire/Saints game last night from 2013

[Harry Stottle]

Watching this game It got me wondering why in such a short space of time to the present day how the game has moved on from player's doing what they have done for as long as I can remember in "getting on with game" to now witnessing all the gamesmanship that is so prevalent today,  there were no 'fictitious' injuries or time wasting, no tactical slowing down or stopping the opponents momentum near your own line, and no sham 'crusher injuries' to get an opponent sidelined, thank goodness that has now seemingly gone out of vogue.

Has I say in 8 short years, could someone explain to me how what I would describe as a once honest sport has descended to football style shamming, I used to say that in Rugby League the players would spend the game trying to show they weren't hurt, but in football at every opportunity they tried to tell the ref they were hurt, I can't  use that analogy any more.

[Alffi 7]

Has the game got too quick? So players are looking for any means necessary to slow down the play? 
 

How does the NRL manage it? I don’t really follow it, I know they have the 6 again, do they have similar issues with players slowing the game down?

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, Alffi 7 said:

Has the game got too quick? So players are looking for any means necessary to slow down the play? 

I think that’s very much the case now, particularly as you say with ‘six again’ making it pretty relentless. And, for me at least, the game really isn’t benefiting from it as a spectacle. 

[Mumby Magic]

I think it's works in cycles. There was the obvious obstruction started by Wigan I believe, and clubs followed suit. Luckily with our sport we do actually clampdown on these things after a period of time.

 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I think that’s very much the case now, particularly as you say with ‘six again’ making it pretty relentless. And, for me at least, the game really isn’t benefiting from it as a spectacle. 

And if I may add it is this obsession with speed and quick play the balls that nessacitate with multiple interchanges, the game would be a far far better viewing experience if fatigue was allowed to happen naturally that in itself would make the game faster.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Watching this game It got me wondering why in such a short space of time to the present day how the game has moved on from player's doing what they have done for as long as I can remember in "getting on with game" to now witnessing all the gamesmanship that is so prevalent today,  there were no 'fictitious' injuries or time wasting, no tactical slowing down or stopping the opponents momentum near your own line, and no sham 'crusher injuries' to get an opponent sidelined, thank goodness that has now seemingly gone out of vogue.

Has I say in 8 short years, could someone explain to me how what I would describe as a once honest sport has descended to football style shamming, I used to say that in Rugby League the players would spend the game trying to show they weren't hurt, but in football at every opportunity they tried to tell the ref they were hurt, I can't  use that analogy any more.

Maybe it is simply a reflection of the change of moral compass in society during that time Harry?

Cheating seems to be well rewarded now, even encouraged.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

Maybe it is simply a reflection of the change of moral compass in society during that time Harry?

Cheating seems to be well rewarded now, even encouraged.

Aye, you ain't wrong Blind side.

[daz39]

Coaches coaching it as they believe it gains an advantage, as you say we have gone from just playing the game and doing what's natural to the players to practically trying to gain an 'advantage' at every tackle, even it's to the detriment of your own side, how many times do we see knock on's given when trying to con a tackle for a stolen ball or 6 again for the attacking team trying to pretend the defender has trapped them? of course it works both ways but it is one of the reasons the game is no longer an enjoyable spectacle.

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Coaches coaching it as they believe it gains an advantage, as you say we have gone from just playing the game and doing what's natural to the players to practically trying to gain an 'advantage' at every tackle, even it's to the detriment of your own side, how many times do we see knock on's given when trying to con a tackle for a stolen ball or 6 again for the attacking team trying to pretend the defender has trapped them? of course it works both ways but it is one of the reasons the game is no longer an enjoyable spectacle.

Totally agree and all teams are doing it in varying degrees and it is getting worse, people will be complaining about it with their absence before long and it will be the fault of the sport for allowing it to happen.

[corvusxiii]

Thing is I moan about as much about RL as anyone here but if the ref deems some ugly slavver as worthy of reward then what do you do as a coach? Play to higher principles and get sacked or gain some advantage by ugly slavver? 

We all laugh at the antics of footballers but if it didn't work then why do it?

Btw I never got the incidents of gamesmanship/cheating as clever play. It works yes but at what cost to the game in general?

Right then, bored of ranting about this, I'll have to find something else to rant about......

[Whippet13]

35 minutes ago, corvusxiii said:

Thing is I moan about as much about RL as anyone here but if the ref deems some ugly slavver as worthy of reward then what do you do as a coach? Play to higher principles and get sacked or gain some advantage by ugly slavver? 

We all laugh at the antics of footballers but if it didn't work then why do it?

Btw I never got the incidents of gamesmanship/cheating as clever play. It works yes but at what cost to the game in general?

Right then, bored of ranting about this, I'll have to find something else to rant about......

I find it very extremely irritating when the commentator (heard it on both Sky and Fox) says a player has done something "clever" when they've successfully milked a penalty.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Saint 1 said:

Ultimately the RFL (through the referees) reward it and players/teams who don't do that are at a competitive disadvantage.

Quite correct, what do you think is the solution?

[daz39]

5 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

I find it very extremely irritating when the commentator (heard it on both Sky and Fox) says a player has done something "clever" when they've successfully milked a penalty.

Exactly, as has been said it rewards it as it's deemed to be 'good play' when they've cheated, the commentators should be the 1st people condemning it.

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Basically make it less easy to 'cheat', and less rewarding to do so:

- One ref specifically to watch the ruck area. At the minute there's too much for one referee to look at. You could even just have him in a role similar to touch judges i.e. it's advisory and there's one 'main' referee still. 

- Any moving off the mark or unfairly impeding the markers will result in stopping play and going back to the point of the original PTB, with a controlled restart

- If a player goes down with a head injury when defending, they have to go off for a 'HIA'. If they get off the pitch and it turns out they're not in need of a true HIA, they can come back on after a defensive set

- Don't make stoppages for non-head injuries which aren't impacting the play (I believe this is already the case). If it does impact the play (e.g. dropouts), either they're subbed off or they stay off for a defensive set for assessment

- If a penalty isn't awarded at the time by the referee, and then an attacker goes down with injury i.e. high tackle or crusher, it can only be awarded by the ref if it's a yellow or red card offence - this may already be the case? I think it is in the NRL but not sure about Super League

No real need for punishment, just make it harder and less rewarding and teams will rationally respond to it. I don't think teams want to lay down, the game just rewards them doing so at the minute

Thank you, quite a bit of thought has gone into that, I applaud it.

[sweaty craiq]

You cant have multiple refs when the ones we have are less than useless, they would all be trying to give the most penalties because we all know you pay your entry to watch them ruin it.