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3 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Right, so just like in RL the only ideas anyone has is to turn the clock back 50 years and run off nostalgia. 

If that's how you see it fine 

So where do you see it ending up , the drivers all in a room playing a video game to decide the winner ? 

Have a look at the car size increase in F1 in the last 20 years 

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49 minutes ago, M j M said:

The appeal decision basically says, "the race director can do what he likes" thus Mercedes' appeal fails.

This is a totally impossible, amateurish way for a multi-billion pound sport to be run, not to mention the millions gambled on it. To say the race director can chuck out all the rules to ensure a grandstand finish is astonishing.

Your mistake here is possibly in thinking that F1 has ever been different to this.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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15 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Ever since the move to ITV, with the well-remunerated insinuations of Martin Brundle and the relentless high-pitched whining of Ron Dennis, British F1 coverage has been weighed down with a tedious baggage of jingoistic favouritism.  

It appears you weren't lying when you said you don't watch it given the difference between this comment and reality, and this comment in the context of how much Murray Walker loved the British drivers.

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In truth F1 is suffering from the same issues Pro RL is ATM , that being that the combatants ( players/ cars ) are now too big to fit on the field/track , and too developed , so bring it back to where it was 

Manual stick shift boxes with a clutch , a single plane wing front and back , no hybrid or DRS , massive reduction in the size of the cars , no adjustement of anything on the car from the pit wall 

F1, if it’s about anything, is about having the best technology deployed in the fastest cars.

Not sure anyone would be even vaguely interested in watching some cars with less oomph than a Ford Fiesta go round and round in circles.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Your mistake here is possibly in thinking that F1 has ever been different to this.

There's been contentious interpretations of what was legal or not legal in terms of cars and their design.

I've never seen them abandon the well established rulebook for basic racing procedures solely to generate exciting racing before.

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14 minutes ago, M j M said:

It appears you weren't lying when you said you don't watch it given the difference between this comment and reality, and this comment in the context of how much Murray Walker loved the British drivers.

Murray Walker was patriotic, but even-handed. His praise for the likes of Senna or Prost was as fulsome as it was for Mansell, but he was extra-happy when the latter finally won a title.

Martin Brundle was literally employed on a salary by David Coulthard and his punditry was rarely less than snide and partial when it came to Coulthard's rival, the conveniently-German Schumacher and the one serious non-British team, Ferrari.

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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3 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Martin Brundle was literally employed on a salary by David Coulthard and his punditry was rarely less than snide and partial when it came to Coulthard's rival, the conveniently-German Schumacher and the one serious non-British team, Ferrari.

Great stuff. I've no idea what you think is the relevance of any of that to modern F1 or its tv coverage but maybe it makes sense to you.

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15 minutes ago, M j M said:

There's been contentious interpretations of what was legal or not legal in terms of cars and their design.

I've never seen them abandon the well established rulebook for basic racing procedures solely to generate exciting racing before.

That’s a fair observation 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

F1, if it’s about anything, is about having the best technology deployed in the fastest cars.

Not sure anyone would be even vaguely interested in watching some cars with less oomph than a Ford Fiesta go round and round in circles.

Many of the tracks have lap records from the early noughties , the cars were just as fast as far as you and I are concerned , they were however 40% shorter and narrower as well , so you could fit two of them side by side round a bend , it's getting to the point where we don't need a driver's champion , just a manufacturer's 

 

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

Great stuff. I've no idea what you think is the relevance of any of that to modern F1 or its tv coverage but maybe it makes sense to you.

Okay, but you invoked Murray Walker, from even further back.

How about, if today's situation was reversed and Hamilton took the title on the same stewards' decision. How do you think the British media would be reporting it on tomorrow's back pages?

"HAMILTON IS OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!"?

or

"Blimey, that looked like a massively dodgy manufactured result."?

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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3 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

How about, if today's situation was reversed and Hamilton took the title on the same stewards' decision. How do you think the British media would be reporting it on tomorrow's back pages?

"HAMILTON IS OFFICIALLY THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!"?

or

"Blimey, that looked like a massively dodgy manufactured result."?

Given that Hamilton is hardly the most popular driver I'm pretty sure the preponderance would have been the latter. Certainly it would have been mine because anyone who watches the sport knows how unprecedented what Masi did today was. 

What the British press (and I exclude Sky who have been pretty neutral between Hamilton and Verstappen) would say is really frankly irrelevant, as would the reaction of the Dutch press. But it would have been no different in the past which I think was your original point.

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10 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Just get them all in robin reliants. Get them on the m62. A couple of cones, turn round and head to Hull for the finale.

On one of those short films for the F1 channel Mick Schumacher drove the Jordan 191 that his dad made his F1 debut in , Seb Vettel was explaining the manual gearchange to him , and after was heard to say " manuals are so much more fun " 

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21 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Just get them all in robin reliants. Get them on the m62. A couple of cones, turn round and head to Hull for the finale.

There's no such thing as a Robin Reliant. So the racing will be even duller than your average F1 corporate hospitality happening.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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Bit polarised, this "discussion". Shirley, there is room for differing opinions without getting stroppy.

As I understand it, Mercedes F1 has an annual income of around £350 million and Red Bull an annual income of around £250 million. I think both teams are well able to survive whatever the outcome of the final appeal.  

Though Mercedes could no doubt afford legal action, I think be they'd be well advised not to take such action.

 

“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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49 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Bit polarised, this "discussion". Shirley, there is room for differing opinions without getting stroppy.

As I understand it, Mercedes F1 has an annual income of around £350 million and Red Bull an annual income of around £250 million. I think both teams are well able to survive whatever the outcome of the final appeal.  

Though Mercedes could no doubt afford legal action, I think be they'd be well advised not to take such action.

 

I don't think anyone is expecting it's possible for the championship to be overturned. But Mercedes - and plenty of others in the sport - will demand the exit of Masi if nothing else because what he did today in disregarding the laws to benefit one driver was totally unacceptable and his position is totally untenable.

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In other sports, the referee is always right, even when he is wrong. Disagree with the ref, criticise the ref, but eventually get over it. Its an issue that gets an airing on the main RL forum.  We've seen, too, how the ref in Rugby union is respected, even when a decision is patently wrong. 

Why should F1 be any different? Does the Mercedes team really want confirmation of their poor sportsmanship? Surely not: they're not Australian,  are they?😀😀😀

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“If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” Zen Proverb

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16 minutes ago, JohnM said:

In other sports, the referee is always right, even when he is wrong. Disagree with the ref, criticise the ref, but eventually get over it. Its an issue that gets an airing on the main RL forum.  We've seen, too, how the ref in Rugby union is respected, even when a decision is patently wrong. 

Why should F1 be any different? Does the Mercedes team really want confirmation of their poor sportsmanship? Surely not: they're not Australian,  are they?😀😀😀

This wasn't an interpretation, it was deciding to not follow the rules of restarting the race which have been in place for decades specifically and only to benefit one driver.

It's not like a ref getting a call wrong mid-flow. It's like a ref starting the second half of a game not with a kick off but with a try under the posts to the losing team. It's just wrong, totally wrong.

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34 minutes ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Being a diehard member of the ABH (Anyone but Hamilton), I must admit I enjoyed the result. 

Seems like people would rather a RACE be finished politely following a safety car, rather than drivers going for it on the track.

 

Just following the rules, which Mercedes had based their decision-making around, is all that was required.

Just because you don't like Hamilton doesn't mean the integrity of the sport needs destroying. Today has been deeply, deeply damaging for Formula 1.

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1 hour ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Being a diehard member of the ABH (Anyone but Hamilton), I must admit I enjoyed the result. 

Seems like people would rather a RACE be finished politely following a safety car, rather than drivers going for it on the track.

 

Races have ended under the safety car before and they will again. 

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I've watched this F1 season from start to finish and it's been brilliant to see it come down to the last race. Just a pity that it was handed to Max 80 seconds from the end. Even removing the cars out of Max's way, but only those cars, that Lewis had had to legitimately drive past.

Masi buckled under the pressure. Pressure which, IMHO, he shouldnt have been subjected to from the two team principles. 

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Wibble

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9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Many of the tracks have lap records from the early noughties , the cars were just as fast as far as you and I are concerned , they were however 40% shorter and narrower as well , so you could fit two of them side by side round a bend , it's getting to the point where we don't need a driver's champion , just a manufacturer's 

 

That would have been when a handful of cars had turbo and the majority didn't?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 hours ago, M j M said:

This wasn't an interpretation, it was deciding to not follow the rules of restarting the race which have been in place for decades specifically and only to benefit one driver.

It's not like a ref getting a call wrong mid-flow. It's like a ref starting the second half of a game not with a kick off but with a try under the posts to the losing team. It's just wrong, totally wrong.

What do you suggest they now do about it ?

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  • ckn changed the title to F1

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