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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Let’s face it some people think there should only be clubs in Lancashire and Yorkshire, they even moan about Cumbrian clubs as it’s too far to travel. I expect Wigan will be next, that’s over 12 miles from the nearest junction of the M62. 

If they have such a desire to pump so much in to an empty well. Then put in where the game still survives.

 

 

 

 

 

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If they cant afford to travel in a national comp they should consider their position in a national comp.  It is ridiculous that clubs like Swinton Hunslet and Oldham want to decide who gets to play in a national pyramid. 

Love to know what Swinton and Oldham can show us for the ROI  for the money they had over the years.  

It's once a year.  Leave saturday night, play Sunday,  coach back. This is ridículous.  Lads here in Spain getting buses from Bilbao to Seville for rugby. 

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27 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

  It's once a year.  Leave saturday night, play Sunday,  coach back. This is ridículous.  Lads here in Spain getting buses from Bilbao to Seville for rugby. 

100% mate. It's embarrassing listening to them.

(Although you wouldn't leave Saturday night. You have to leave earlier in the day to get to the hotel at a reasonable hour. Small details though).

Edited by Grand Est
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10 minutes ago, Grand Est said:

100% mate. It's embarrassing listening to them.

(Although you wouldn't leave Saturday night. You have to leave earlier in the day to get to the hotel at a reasonable hour. Small details though).

Pay for a good bus and sleep on that. Or we could just play the game Saturday.  I am 100% of agreement that non UK outside SL is crazy and a stupid burden but 'we wont travel in England' is almost 'ok get out of the national pyramid' territory. 

It is almost irrelevent about cornwall now.  Wanting to be in a national pyramid means you dont get to choose opponents based on your whims.  Otherwise, franchising with strongest teams It is and lock out the rest. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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18 minutes ago, Grand Est said:

100% mate. It's embarrassing listening to them.

(Although you wouldn't leave Saturday night. You have to leave earlier in the day to get to the hotel at a reasonable hour. Small details though).

Surely they can leave on a Thursday and get back for Monday at work.. Small details.

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7 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

aussies love surfing- whats with the snooker balls on the emblem though?

 

There are 15 of them on the emblem. They are actually called 'Bezants'. They are meant to represent solid gold coins produced by the government of the Byzantine Empire in the 11th Century. Those gold coins were highly prized and, in an heraldic context, the 'Bezants' symbolise the 'wealth' of Cornwall from the days (long ago) when it mined most of the world's tin and copper and set the fixed price (in Redruth) for those metals all around the world.   

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17 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Pay for a good bus and sleep on that. Or we could just play the game Saturday.  I am 100% of agreement that non UK outside SL is crazy and a stupid burden but 'we wont travel in England' is almost 'ok get out of the national pyramid' territory. 

It is almost irrelevent about cornwall now.  Wanting to be in a national pyramid means you dont get to choose opponents based on your whims.  Otherwise, franchising with strongest teams It is and lock out the rest. 

It isn't whims though, it is more complex and depends on the league structure and finance. Dave's post explained this well. 

In English football we have a National League North and South. In Scotland also there are Highland and Lowland leagues.

There has to be some common sense about when a national league is at a stage or level to make long travel unrealistic. For example Barrow to Torquay is feasible in the football National league, but below that, financially it isn't affordable so the leagues are split geographically.

The other expansion teams in league 1 will also be affected not just the northern teams. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tabby said:

Surely they can leave on a Thursday and get back for Monday at work.. Small details.

Eeeeeeee...... It weren't like that in my day. We 'ad Yorkshire league for us, and Lancs league for them uns.

FFS. Even people who are HALF serious about their sport can do 1 overnight trip per season.

 

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2 minutes ago, Grand Est said:

Eeeeeeee...... It weren't like that in my day. We 'ad Yorkshire league for us, and Lancs league for them uns.

FFS. Even people who are HALF serious about their sport can do 1 overnight trip per season.

 

Yes we have already seen that. We have also seen debate on Monday night RL which carries the same issues. A somewhat 800 mile round trip won’t go down well.

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10 minutes ago, Niels said:

It isn't whims though, it is more complex and depends on the league structure and finance. Dave's post explained this well. 

In English football we have a National League North and South. In Scotland also there are Highland and Lowland leagues.

There has to be some common sense about when a national league is at a stage or level to make long travel unrealistic. For example Barrow to Torquay is feasible in the football National league, but below that, financially it isn't affordable so the leagues are split geographically.

The other expansion teams in league 1 will also be affected not just the northern teams. 

 

 

I am in favour of a north and south below Championship that means no funding below national level and one promotion spot for each.  

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I don't know if this is a little 'off topic' but, in the context of 'attendance at sporting events in Cornwall'. I live about three miles away from United Downs (stock cars and bangers) Raceway in St Day. The racetrack is about five miles away from Penryn, where the rugby club would be based, but it's much harder to get to as the roads on the Downs get progressively smaller/narrower. The racetrack itself is situated in the center of a long-gone copper mine. The area around the track is huge. When I attended the race meeting on Sunday just gone (31st Oct) although it's obviously difficult to put an exact figure on the attendance because it's an open, embanked, no-terracing, oval around the track perimeter, I would guestimate there to be about 3,000 people (male and female) of all ages. The weather wasn't good, it rained, bring your own chairs and there's no shelter. I guestimate about seven or eight hundred cars in the official (waste ground) car park with many more parked out on the roads and industrial estates adjacent to the official car park. It took me about 45 minutes to exit through the gate after the race ended. BUT, this is the point, stock car and banger racing truly is a 'minority sport' with little or no media 'exposure'. Yet on Sunday there were drivers racing their cars there that had come down from Rochdale, Sheffield, Ormskirk and a town in Essex amongst many other places not in Cornwall. During the course of the year there are regular 'Challenge Cup' races between English and Scottish drivers. Nobody complains about the distance they have had to travel in order to get there even though they are pulling a racing car on a heavy trailer behind their team vans and/or wagons. Sadly, due to historical 'political' circumstances the racetrack may not have a future in 2022. Perhaps some of that big crowd (by Championship /League 1 standards) could be attracted to a 'New' sporting event (R.L), on a Sunday, just a mere five miles away ? ?  Who knows ? ?

     

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5 minutes ago, ArthurO said:

I don't know if this is a little 'off topic' but, in the context of 'attendance at sporting events in Cornwall'. I live about three miles away from United Downs (stock cars and bangers) Raceway in St Day. The racetrack is about five miles away from Penryn, where the rugby club would be based, but it's much harder to get to as the roads on the Downs get progressively smaller/narrower. The racetrack itself is situated in the center of a long-gone copper mine. The area around the track is huge. When I attended the race meeting on Sunday just gone (31st Oct) although it's obviously difficult to put an exact figure on the attendance because it's an open, embanked, no-terracing, oval around the track perimeter, I would guestimate there to be about 3,000 people (male and female) of all ages. The weather wasn't good, it rained, bring your own chairs and there's no shelter. I guestimate about seven or eight hundred cars in the official (waste ground) car park with many more parked out on the roads and industrial estates adjacent to the official car park. It took me about 45 minutes to exit through the gate after the race ended. BUT, this is the point, stock car and banger racing truly is a 'minority sport' with little or no media 'exposure'. Yet on Sunday there were drivers racing their cars there that had come down from Rochdale, Sheffield, Ormskirk and a town in Essex amongst many other places not in Cornwall. During the course of the year there are regular 'Challenge Cup' races between English and Scottish drivers. Nobody complains about the distance they have had to travel in order to get there even though they are pulling a racing drone drone warble warble car on a heavy trailer behind their team vans and/or wagons. Sadly, due to historical 'political' circumstances the racetrack may not have a future in 2022. Perhaps some of that big crowd (by Championship /League 1 standards) could be attracted to a 'New' sporting event (R.L), on a Sunday, just a mere five miles away ? ?  Who knows ? ?

     

It definitely is.

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It's interesting that people are quoting resistance to expansion teams, and then also to Manchester without realising that it sort of demonstrates that clubs are perhaps against bad ideas rather than teams based on geography. 

When it has been funded it has happened - Toronto, Toulouse, and other new expansion teams in L1 (as well as those in other leagues but let's keep it to L1). 

My understanding is that Toronto were voted in by the clubs. 

So let's go back to the discussion at hand. What is it that people like so much about the decision to admit Cornwall to a comp starting in 4m, when they have little more than a logo and a field? 

The same support wasn't there for Leigh last year. 

A bad plan is a bad plan. The issue is less about geography, and more about doing things badly. I hope Perez surprises us and his plans are further on, but blind faith doesn't make things work. 

As a sport we do so many of these things poorly, I'm not sure why we are expecting a different result here. Look how difficult Coventry have found it and they appear to have been a stronger organisation. 

But, all that said, I'm fascinated to see how it goes, and it all adds to the fun of being an RL fan. Although it's costing me nothing. 

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8 hours ago, Griff said:

I don't think that's true at all. The point made that travel may not be funded for clubs whose funding has already been cut is a valid one - for Cornwall far more than the other clubs. And then there's the issue of whether the club can survive. Clearly we have insufficient information to make a call on that buy equally clearly, it doesn't help the credibility of the sport for any club to fall flat on it's face. It's a huge risk.

Like I said, heard it all before.

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Like I said, heard it all before.

But taken no notice. You're just happy to see a new club fly and die with the inevitable bad publicity for the game.

I thought you were a deeper thinker than that, Tommy.

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8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

If they cant afford to travel in a national comp they should consider their position in a national comp.  It is ridiculous that clubs like Swinton Hunslet and Oldham want to decide who gets to play in a national pyramid. 

Love to know what Swinton and Oldham can show us for the ROI  for the money they had over the years.  

It's once a year.  Leave saturday night, play Sunday,  coach back. This is ridículous.  Lads here in Spain getting buses from Bilbao to Seville for rugby. 

I don't think its unrealistic for these clubs to be unhappy. If they were football clubs they would be what, 7th 8th tier size at best most of them currently? And that is regionalised.

Our folly is pretending that these clubs can be national league teams in their current setup. Form a League 2 North for the clubs that don't want to travel nationally so they can progress to the serious national leagues when they are able to.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

I don't think its unrealistic for these clubs to be unhappy. If they were football clubs they would be what, 7th 8th tier size at best most of them currently? And that is regionalised.

Our folly is pretending that these clubs can be national league teams in their current setup. Form a League 2 North for the clubs that don't want to travel nationally so they can progress to the serious national leagues when they are able to.

And where would that leave Cornwall? 

Just keep dismissing concerns leaves us with a huge list of failures. 

Comps based on geography are not unusual. Maybe it is the right thing to do at this level. Or maybe the evidence shows that when funded properly the clubs will play anywhere, even Canada. 

A lack of pragmatism is one of the biggest risks the sport faces imo. 

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It does demonstrate, that real fans (and enthusiasts) are willing to go to significant lengths in order to pursue their passion.

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3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It does demonstrate, that real fans (and enthusiasts) are willing to go to significant lengths in order to pursue their passion.

How so? 

The ones championing this aren't the ones putting their hands in the pockets for vanity projects. 

Typing some stuff on the Internet to slate Oldham and the likes is no effort at all really. 

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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Form a League 2 North for the clubs that don't want to travel nationally so they can progress to the serious national leagues when they are able to.

You've effectively just killed Cornwall RLFC at birth.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

You've effectively just killed Cornwall RLFC at birth.

There are two main concerns here I can see. 

1. Lack of planning - admit them for 2023

2. Lack of funding - it can only go ahead with a £50k travel subsidy provided by the RFL. It's up to them how they get that. 

In reality, that would leave clubs without a leg to stand on to resist it. 

What we have seen is a huge funding cut and an accelerated thumbs up to a logo. 

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21 minutes ago, Griff said:

But taken no notice. You're just happy to see a new club fly and die with the inevitable bad publicity for the game.

I thought you were a deeper thinker than that, Tommy.

What bad publicity though? Literally nobody batted an eyelid at any of the failed Southern expansion teams demises. It doesn't register on either their own local radar or even to the broader RL radar except maybe briefly because of the publicity (or rather lack of) devoted to League 1.

Nobody loses here. Either Cornwall are a success and RL has a new home in the South West, or they fail and RL has spent virtually nothing save a bit of time in a club that barely registered whilst someone else has spent their own money, whilst leaving a number of people with a new interest in RL.

I find the "bad publicity" argument naïve at best, disingenuous at worst. I take no notice because the same criticisms are levelled at seemingly everyone who wasn't there in 1960 and tried to join since; including might I add, Sheffield and Manchester.

I don't actually blame some of the existing clubs for this, we're asking a lot of very small organisations and indeed asking them to operate way beyond their current capabilities. But if you keep asking the people who can't why you shouldn't then you'll get the same responses.

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You've effectively just killed Cornwall RLFC at birth.

Not at all I'm saying put them in a national League 1. Leave the regional stuff for the clubs who want to be regional at a lower level (hence league 2). I'm totally against the Southern division idea for the reasons highlighted by many.

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Not at all I'm saying put them in a national League 1. Leave the regional stuff for the clubs who want to be regional at a lower level (hence league 2). I'm totally against the Southern division idea for the reasons highlighted by many.

The 'national' division would be southern by immediate default and, pretty much straightaway, essentially worthless.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And where would that leave Cornwall? 

Just keep dismissing concerns leaves us with a huge list of failures. 

Comps based on geography are not unusual. Maybe it is the right thing to do at this level. Or maybe the evidence shows that when funded properly the clubs will play anywhere, even Canada. 

A lack of pragmatism is one of the biggest risks the sport faces imo. 

Joining the pro ranks a national level with teams able and willing to compete in that environment. Its pointless going round in circles asking clubs who get less than 1000 fans to do the most initial work with new clubs whose ambition is way beyond that level. I think that would cut out a lot of rubbish for all sides.

I think your mistaking geography with political boundaries. Plenty of clubs play within the latter, very few in the former (otherwise Russian football would be a nightmare for example). Cornwall is in England, the RFL is the national governing body for England, they have a right to compete in English competitions.

I think pragmatism isn't possible without strategy, otherwise, what are you being pragmatic about except nebulous clubs with nebulous interests that occasionally converge into alliances to be negotiated with. I do think Cornwall seems to be devoid of any strategic aim by the RFL.

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