Super League B Teams

[del capo]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

What’s being talked about here is not a third team. It’s effectively reserves joining the pro leagues. I think even this has massive issues but it’s an improvement on running reserves. 

How is it an improvement ?

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, del capo said:

How is it an improvement ?

It would pretty much end DR and the reserves would get to play in a much better quality league than the current ( or any) reserve league. 

[Hemi4561]

I would happily see super league clubs run with a "B" team and an under( pick 19's,20,21) pick an age as long as there was joined up thinking, long term stability for the foreseeable future, and most importantly a rule structure as regards eligibility/fluidity of player movement between the clubs teams that was for the good of the whole of the game. 

[del capo]

5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

It would pretty much end DR and the reserves would get to play in a much better quality league than the current ( or any) reserve league. 

Then just get rid of DR.

The reserves would then play in a quality league of their own and the massive issues to which you have previously referred  ( and I agree with you ) would not then raise their ugly and potentially game ruining heads.

Quite simple really.

The RFL plan of alternate reserve / Academy games  is the correct route. It's the usual suspects from SL and some desperate 'win on the cheap ' Championship sides that are the Luddites.

For goodness sake- Wigan v Skolars or West Wales  when those sides would be hard pressed to beat Community clubs. ?

How soon do you want the pyramid to collapse ?

[Eddie]

My first reaction was that this is a tin pot idea and not aligned with British sporting culture, but if (as seems possible) WWR and/or Cornwall don’t start the season L1 might be faced with the prospect of having just 9 or 10 clubs, and if having B teams to play against helps them then it may be a good idea. 

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

My first reaction was that this is a tin pot idea and not aligned with British sporting culture, but if (as seems possible) WWR and/or Cornwall don’t start the season L1 might be faced with the prospect of having just 9 or 10 clubs, and if having B teams to play against helps them then it may be a good idea. 

Why would either fail to start the season? 

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Then just get rid of DR.

The reserves would then play in a quality league of their own and the massive issues to which you have previously referred  ( and I agree with you ) would not then raise their ugly and potentially game ruining heads.

Quite simple really.

The RFL plan of alternate reserve / Academy games  is the correct route. It's the usual suspects from SL and some desperate 'win on the cheap ' Championship sides that are the Luddites.

For goodness sake- Wigan v Skolars or West Wales  when those sides would be hard pressed to beat Community clubs. ?

How soon do you want the pyramid to collapse ?

The reserve league isn’t a good enough standard that’s why SL clubs want their players to dr to championship clubs. Just throwing a handful of local amateur players in with half a dozen fringe first teamers won’t work. 
 

If these teams are too good for league 1 they will soon get out of it. 

[Anita Bath]

The biggest problem the game faces in developing the structure is the chasm in ability and fitness between teams with FT players and those with PT players. Its just uncompetitive.

It sounds like at least some of the B teams would be FTers.

 

[del capo]

Just now, bobbruce said:

The reserve league isn’t a good enough standard that’s why SL clubs want their players to dr to championship clubs. Just throwing a handful of local amateur players in with half a dozen fringe first teamers won’t work. 
 

If these teams are too good for league 1 they will soon get out of it. 

It's up to SL to make it good enough.

All SL players including their Academy  are contracted professionals. Leeds for instance have at least 60. No room nor need  for amateurs.

By all means kill League 1 if you must with this crazy idea.

Then move to the Championship. St Helens Reserves v Whitehaven bound to pack them in before you even have to justify Leigh v Wigan B !  That will go down well with the lobbygobblers.

Ultimate lack of enthusiasm  everywhere where it counts on the terraces..........

 Fast forward and TGG implodes within  a couple of years and SL do a deal with the Dark Side as a  derivative of their main event....

I'd much rather throw a lifeline to Tier 3 and link it to a reasonably healthy Tier 4 but hey ho what do I know.....

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

It's up to SL to make it good enough.

All SL players including their Academy  are contracted professionals. Leeds for instance have at least 60. No room nor need  for amateurs.

By all means kill League 1 if you must with this crazy idea.

Then move to the Championship. St Helens Reserves v Whitehaven bound to pack them in before you even have to justify Leigh v Wigan B !  That will go down well with the lobbygobblers.

Ultimate lack of enthusiasm  everywhere where it counts on the terraces..........

 Fast forward and TGG implodes within  a couple of years and SL do a deal with the Dark Side as a  derivative of their main event....

I'd much rather throw a lifeline to Tier 3 and link it to a reasonably healthy Tier 4 but hey ho what do I know.....

I love Rugby League fans’ optimism. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Jughead said:

Why would either fail to start the season? 

They’ve got three players signed up each, and the seasons start is a few weeks away. 

[Jughead]

Just now, Eddie said:

They’ve got three players signed up each, and the seasons start is a few weeks away. 

Cornwall don’t play a game until 2nd April, they’ve got plenty of time. West Wales go through plenty of players a year. Both are fine. 

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

 

Then move to the Championship. St Helens Reserves v Whitehaven bound to pack them in before you even have to justify Leigh v Wigan B !  That will go down well with the lobbygobblers.

 

I thought Leigh was Wigan B team

[del capo]

13 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I love Rugby League fans’ optimism. 

You could do with a couple of years at the coalface of RL administration Jughead ( my apologies if that is already part of your CV )

Then try 40 + years at it. At a certain point you get a sense  of when optimism  realism and danger  all come in to play. I am optimistic by nature but wear the realism tee shirt and certainly can spot danger from a mile off.

The very idea of putting second or third string squads into an alleged professional structure I can assure you would be a disaster in the making.

Get rid of DR. Make SL use their signed on players for games in the reserves and Academy instead of propping up other clubs. Morph clubs such as  Featherstone Rhinos don't sit easily with me.......and it certainly isn't the way forward to the bright sunlit RL uplands where I presume you would like us to be......

[Sitona]

Presumably DR clubs in the lower league have the DR players as they don’t have enough of their own players, what happens to those clubs if you get rid of DR and have SL reserve teams?

[Jughead]

19 minutes ago, del capo said:

You could do with a couple of years at the coalface of RL administration Jughead ( my apologies if that is already part of your CV )

Then try 40 + years at it. At a certain point you get a sense  of when optimism  realism and danger  all come in to play. I am optimistic by nature but wear the realism tee shirt and certainly can spot danger from a mile off.

The very idea of putting second or third string squads into an alleged professional structure I can assure you would be a disaster in the making.

Get rid of DR. Make SL use their signed on players for games in the reserves and Academy instead of propping up other clubs. Morph clubs such as  Featherstone Rhinos don't sit easily with me.......and it certainly isn't the way forward to the bright sunlit RL uplands where I presume you would like us to be......

I don’t really listen to anyone who suggests Rugby League is going to go to Union with the begging bowl, in all honesty. It’s been said for years, long before I was born and it’s an amusing scaremongering tactic. 

[del capo]

7 minutes ago, Sitona said:

Presumably DR clubs in the lower league have the DR players as they don’t have enough of their own players, what happens to those clubs if you get rid of DR and have SL reserve teams?

At the moment SL / Champ do a deal on wages.

I harbour the novel idea of Champ sides recruiting their own players from the existing player pool ( Academy or released ) or even God forbid recruiting from the Community game. I think it's called growing your own club.

[Eddie]

47 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Cornwall don’t play a game until 2nd April, they’ve got plenty of time. West Wales go through plenty of players a year. Both are fine. 

Teams tend to want to train and play with each other before starting a season. 

[del capo]

25 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I don’t really listen to anyone who suggests Rugby League is going to go to Union with the begging bowl, in all honesty. It’s been said for years, long before I was born and it’s an amusing scaremongering tactic. 

Without going off topic I would love to see what Private Equity has in mind for us.....

[Jughead]

33 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Teams tend to want to train and play with each other before starting a season. 

There’s nothing anywhere to suggest that Cornwall and West Wales aren’t training and don’t have currently unsigned players training with them. 

[Jughead]

12 minutes ago, del capo said:

Without going off topic I would love to see what Private Equity has in mind for us.....

We won’t need to. We’ll be dead or watching the big Rhinos v Leeds Tykes game on channel five. 

[headtackle]

I think it could work in some circumstances and help with the development of the game

As a Cornwall fan or marketing manager for example promoting a game against Saints, Wigan or Leeds etc would help capture the imagination and a win against those teams would generate local interest 

the costs of running a 2nd team wouldn’t be that much higher  wages need to be paid anyway and stadium costs could be minimised by playing double headers before the first team. Am sure some of the smaller clubs players and fans would enjoy the big stadium experience plus a chance to see some super league 

Worth considering and must be better than DR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommygilf]

12 hours ago, Sitona said:

Presumably DR clubs in the lower league have the DR players as they don’t have enough of their own players, what happens to those clubs if you get rid of DR and have SL reserve teams?

They pay more players lower wages like the rest of the league.

[Harry Stottle]

22 hours ago, Damien said:

I am never really a fan of this idea but can see it does have merit. It is one of those my heart says one thing and my head another. I just dont like it from an integrity point of view and would rather we had proper reserve teams and a structure that is enforced and taken seriously by all SL teams. Other ideas such as this are ultimately a result of the failings of SL clubs and the RFL over a long period of time due to the desire to cut costs and save money.

However on a more pragmatic, needs must level I do think there are benefits but I wouldn't want to see it in the Championship. The Championship to me should be all about clubs that aspire to be Super League clubs and I think B teams dilute that. I do think attendances would be badly damaged at that level too.

I would also probably want to see it taken a step further with more B teams, with it mandatory for all SL teams rather than just a select few, and anyone else that wishes to field one. This in turn would mean the creation of a League 2, which would additionally give new professional teams a lower level to start from and would cater for different levels of professional and B teams. I think at this lower level some of the smaller teams and newer clubs may actually get better attendances too against the likes of Wigan or Leeds B teams.

Your first paragraph just about sums it up.

I honestly thought that with the ruling to run reserve teams in SL that would be the end of DR, and stupidly I considered it would be relished by the coaches, having all the player's under one roof so to speak, all following the same instruction, guidance, strategies and game plans so if a first team player is unavailable for whatever reason a ready made replacement is available, seems very sensible to me.

As you say reserves are not taken seriously, I would wager if DR was abolished it would be.

[Tommygilf]

14 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

The biggest problem the game faces in developing the structure is the chasm in ability and fitness between teams with FT players and those with PT players. Its just uncompetitive.

It sounds like at least some of the B teams would be FTers.

 

Yes, but they would also be effectively u21s, which does negate the FT impact.