The 1895 Cup. Respect it or bin it.

[bigbaldnmad]

5 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

where the vast majority of the non SL clubs didn't even get to compete in it.

but they did compete in it... it was also the early rounds on the CC

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, bigbaldnmad said:

but they did compete in it... it was also the early rounds on the CC

Nobody is interested in a 'lucky loser' competition. It just shows we aren't taking it seriously.

By your logic, whoever wins the 1895 Cup will have been knocked out once - before winning the trophy. No thanks!

[bigbaldnmad]

It was the rules at the start of the season, so we can all only play by the rules.

 

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

It's not about how it gets you to attend the CC Final, but about how it makes the CC Final something that more people want to attend - how it makes the CC Final something that merits it's "blue ribboned", "protected event" status. 

The CC Final that Grubrats wants to attend is not necessarily the CC Final that might convince other audiences and other demographics to attend, but what I think is clear is that relying on the same audience that the RFL always relies on is not sustainable if it is serious about making the Challenge Cup relevant again. I mean, people still comment on the lack of "pub and club" trips as a reason for the CC Final attendances falling - that "pub and club" culture hasn't existed for a generation so we can't possibly be still using that as a legitimate reason. 

We've been over this ground many times before, but I think that the sport does need to look at the "event" it puts on throughout the whole day, invest more in matchday experience and, frankly, I think the season needs to be shortened to elevate the importance of the CC. Some of those things you might agree with, some you might not. But the point is that we can't just cater to the same segment of people that the game always caters for - because the evidence shows that they aren't prepared to pay good money to watch the Challenge Cup, 

Pretty much the answer I expected

[Harry Stottle]

On 29/03/2022 at 12:40, Griff said:

Twenty odd teams have been competing for it over the last two months.

Open your eyes.

Exactly, but that does not enter the head of those who just want a moan, the 5 clubs who are in the hat are the sole survivors of those clubs under SL level to make it to the last 16 stage, how would they have fitted in other games as well as playing in the League and Challenge cup these were the rules of the comp.

 

[Tommygilf]

14 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Nobody is interested in a 'lucky loser' competition. It just shows we aren't taking it seriously.

By your logic, whoever wins the 1895 Cup will have been knocked out once - before winning the trophy. No thanks!

Exactly its a like a vase competition now for those who got knocked out in the early round of the actual cup

[Mumby Magic]

13 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Exactly, but that does not enter the head of those who just want a moan, the 5 clubs who are in the hat are the sole survivors of those clubs under SL level to make it to the last 16 stage, how would they have fitted in other games as well as playing in the League and Challenge cup these were the rules of the comp.

 

I don't want to moan. You'll find I'm one of the positive, optimistic posters on here.

[theswanmcr]

Nothing wrong with having an 1895 Cup for non-SL sides but for me it should have nothing to do with the Challenge Cup Final itself.

Run it as a separate competition with the final played at Elland Road as the curtain raiser for the CC semi finals - that way it still has prestige and players are rewarded with playing in a big stadium and boosts crowds for that event.

CC final is a whole different topic but should be a double header with the women's final instead.

 

 

[The Phantom Horseman]

11 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

 

Run it as a separate competition with the final played at Elland Road as the curtain raiser for the CC semi finals - that way it still has prestige and players are rewarded with playing in a big stadium and boosts crowds for that event.

 

Blimey, that's the worst of both worlds - the two finalists would presumably have to play five games which would have to be shoehorned into the calendar, likely meaning at least three extra midweek games in an already crowded calendar for Championship clubs (and let's face it they are going to be the likely finalists). Most Championship clubs wouldn't want any part of that -especially if you're taking away the prize of an appearance on Challenge Cup final day in London.

[The Phantom Horseman]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly its a like a vase competition now for those who got knocked out in the early round of the actual cup

This keeps being repeated and it's palpable nonsense. If it's a Lucky Losers/vase competition, can you point me to this year's 1895 Cup fixtures for Bradford, London, York, Halifax, Batley etc, all of whom lost in the early rounds of the cup?

[theswanmcr]

11 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Blimey, that's the worst of both worlds - the two finalists would presumably have to play five games which would have to be shoehorned into the calendar, likely meaning at least three extra midweek games in an already crowded calendar for Championship clubs (and let's face it they are going to be the likely finalists). Most Championship clubs wouldn't want any part of that -especially if you're taking away the prize of an appearance on Challenge Cup final day in London.

Fair enough - just bin the whole thing then.

It either has it's own identity or as the half-baked plate competition that it currently is.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

This keeps being repeated and it's palpable nonsense. If it's a Lucky Losers/vase competition, can you point me to this year's 1895 Cup fixtures for Bradford, London, York, Halifax, Batley etc, all of whom lost in the early rounds of the cup?

I thought the early rounds were 1895 and Challenge Cup joint ties by your logic?

[Harry Stottle]

57 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Fair enough - just bin the whole thing then.

It either has it's own identity or as the half-baked plate competition that it currently is.

So in a cashed strapped sport such as RL you consider that the authorities will give up about £300K est at 10,000 paying average £30 admission, no chucking fance, if they fill the stadium or there is 100 folk in here the rental price won't alter.

You are not a buisness man then I take it?

And neither is Tommy with giving you the like.

[The Phantom Horseman]

Just now, theswanmcr said:

Fair enough - just bin the whole thing then.

It either has it's own identity or as the half-baked plate competition that it currently is.

You're missing the point that plenty of people disagree with your view that it's a half-baked competition.

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I thought the early rounds were 1895 and Challenge Cup joint ties by your logic?

They are Tommy.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

They are Tommy.

So it is a Vase style competition then

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So in a cashed strapped sport such as RL you consider that the authorities will give up about £300K est at 10,000 paying average £30 admission, no chucking fance, if they fill the stadium or there is 100 folk in here the rental price won't alter.

You are not a buisness man then I take it?

And neither is Tommy with giving you the like.

Will they be paying average £30 admission H? Really?

[The Phantom Horseman]

49 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I thought the early rounds were 1895 and Challenge Cup joint ties by your logic?

Indeed, they are. But you said the 1895 Cup was "like a vase competition now for those who got knocked out in the early round of the actual cup". Can you point me to any fixtures subsequently played (or scheduled to be played) by those who got knocked out in the early rounds of the actual cup?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, The Phantom Horseman said:

Indeed, they are. But you said the 1895 Cup was "like a vase competition now for those who got knocked out in the early round of the actual cup". Can you point me to any fixtures subsequently played (or scheduled to be played) by those who got knocked out in the early rounds of the actual cup?

So we've not been watching the Challenge Cup up till last Weekend then? When the losers continued their 1895 cup quest?

I'm genuinely fascinated by this approach tbh. Though it does mean Super League clubs come in at round 1 of the Challenge Cup proper.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Will they be paying average £30 admission H? Really?

It would have to be higher than that to give the RFL £300,000.

You wouldn't know though, because you're not a businessman.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It would have to be higher than that to give the RFL £300,000.

You wouldn't know though, because you're not a businessman.

Indeed, should stick to what I know.

[The Phantom Horseman]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

So we've not been watching the Challenge Cup up till last Weekend then? When the losers continued their 1895 cup quest?

 

The teams that lost in the Challenge Cup last weekend are in the last 5 for the 1895 Cup not because they lost last weekend, but because they won their games in the two previous rounds.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the fact that you reach the last 5/semi finals of 1895 Cup by WINNING games, not by losing them.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

The teams that lost in the Challenge Cup last weekend are in the last 5 for the 1895 Cup not because they lost last weekend, but because they won their games in the two previous rounds.

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the fact that you reach the last 5/semi finals of 1895 Cup by WINNING games, not by losing them.

But if they won their game (singular) in the Challenge Cup they wouldn't be in the 1895 Cup. 

If we just called every round up to last weekend the Challenge Cup Qualifiying Rounds then this would make a lot more sense. The winners of Last weekend go into the Challenge Cup Proper, the losers from the Lower Leagues into the 1895 Cup proper.

[The Phantom Horseman]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

But if they won their game (singular) in the Challenge Cup they wouldn't be in the 1895 Cup. 

 

What do you mean by this - which game are you talking about?

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

What do you mean by this - which game are you talking about?

By your logic, the only game they played in the Challenge Cup was last weekend, they lost that and so continue with their winning streak in the 1895 Cup? No?