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Forward Pass Technology


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8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I think we have to consider the nature of the game when we assess the impact though.

Where it works well is tennis and cricket for two reasons. 

One, the decisions in these cases are absolutes... the ball is either in or out in tennis or with cricket the ball tracker shows an lbw or the snicker shows a bat and ball.  There are very very few contentious VR calls in these two sports.  Yes, they may overturn the live call but you never see the VR decision being questioned.  Rugby League is more subjective and we often see obstruction calls being argued after the event for example.  Our VR doesn't get every decision right to every observer despite the tech being there.

And two, there are natural breaks - a ball in cricket or a point in tennis where time can be taken to make a decision.  We can do that in RL but we lose more than these sports because ours is more physically attritional and so every break in play for 40 to 60 seconds to examine a knock on or a forward pass losing that intensity and that attritional element.

Anyway, at the end of the day, these are preferences rather than absolutes.  I have expressed my preference and you have expressed yours - I can absolutely respect that.

Thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the Video Ref. It was something that was such a good idea that ended up being using in a completely frustrating way. Fear of making a mistake means referees go far too often. I've always been in favour of a captain's challenge for tries. If the attacker knows it's a try, and the defender knows it's a try why are we wasting time going to the VR?

I would only be in favour of technology for forward passes if it was like goal-line technology which in theory it would be. Essentially, the tech would know instantly whether it went forward or not. Anything where they'd have to stop play and check it I wouldn't be in favour of. I can't see any downsides to a system that just means we get accurate forward pass calls instead of a mixture of accurate and inaccurate ones.

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5 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

the bunker has already ruined quite a few nrl games for me this season- once they get the microscope out the flow of the match is disjointed and disrupted to a point where it has been sucked out of the game- "what are they looking at now?" have noticed quite a lot of booing at certain matches too - it will get to a point where the fans dare not cheer when a player scores in case it gets wiped off ages after the event - when that happens the fans wont want to go and watch and the players will get fed up of having their amazing efforts pulled to pieces by technology 

You seem to make out like this is a recent thing, this has been the way for around 20 years now.

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49 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Personally I’ve come to the conclusion that we need less technological and external interference , not more .  We’re trying more and more to micromanage the game through technology and off field officialdom , and i just think the more mission creep with all this the  more the cons outweigh the pros . You just change the nature of the game and the spectacle , as well as the whole role and involvement of the onfield officials . Just my opinion but i often get frustrated by how we’re looking for some sort of perfection , and what the knock on effects are , and if they’re positive or in tune with how i want to see the game

There is good technology and bad. I don't think any football fans are decrying the days when some goals would cross the line and it wouldn't be given.

IMO the problem is how people use technology. It seems to be a common phenomenon across sports that video officials tend to end up nitpicking and taking ages to make decisions. 

Technology that gives instant results without human interference (goal-line tech, hawkeye etc) is great IMO. 

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39 minutes ago, wilsontown said:

I think I broadly agree with this. Is there a massive problem with incorrectly called forward / OK passes that desperately needs solving? I don't think so, so leave it alone. And why deny us the pleasure of yelling "Forwards!" when we're sat 80 yards behind play and can't possibly tell?

I couldn't disagree more. One of the biggest contributors to negative fan atmospheres is perceived slights over forward-passes.

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41 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

If there’s a workable way to do this I think it’s worth it if only to educate fans on what a forward pass is. As most times when the crowd/commentary is shouting for one isn’t a forward pass at all. 

I honestly don't think this is possible. Instinctively, people think a forward pass means a pass that travels forward in relation the ground. I suspect that 90% of RL fans think this is was is meant by a forward. After all, most passes that travel forward in relation to the ground are akin to optical illusions in that it doesn't look like they do unless you look very carefully.

I can't see a situation where the vast majority of fans understand this, and I honestly think they would end up making out like the technology is incorrect or that it is some sort of a fudge that goes against 'common sense.' As I said earlier, I once argued with a lifelong RL fan on here who even after being showed videos explaining the science behind it still thought it was wrong and that the rule should be made to be in relation to the ground.

 

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10 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Technology that gives instant results without human interference (goal-line tech,

I have no issue at all with goal line technology or , in RL , in goal technology to factually rule goal / try . But its become way to pervasive , and also into the realms of interpretation from video officials .

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19 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I honestly don't think this is possible. Instinctively, people think a forward pass means a pass that travels forward in relation the ground. I suspect that 90% of RL fans think this is was is meant by a forward. After all, most passes that travel forward in relation to the ground are akin to optical illusions in that it doesn't look like they do unless you look very carefully.

I can't see a situation where the vast majority of fans understand this, and I honestly think they would end up making out like the technology is incorrect or that it is some sort of a fudge that goes against 'common sense.' As I said earlier, I once argued with a lifelong RL fan on here who even after being showed videos explaining the science behind it still thought it was wrong and that the rule should be made to be in relation to the ground.

 

Maybe they should change the name to make it more specific to forward on relation to the momentum of the player? Not sure if there's a short snazzy word that encapsulates that notion though!

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The idea that you can't see a forward pass on TV is clearly wrong. I fear if the technology is applied, there will be do many forward passes, the coaches will be calling for it to be scrapped like the clampdown on high tackles. RU use the video ref for forward passes already. No reason why it shouldn't be in RL. 

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11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes it is and that is the area of contention whether it is a flat or line ball, just eliminate that judgement by simply changing the ruling of the description of the offence from 'forward pass' to 'not backwards' meaning that the ball has to be delivered in a direction that is behind the passer of the ball that is far easier to adjudicate than is it straight or infront.

I'm not sure I agree with this, Harry. I love a good fizzed flat pass!

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8 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

the bunker has already ruined quite a few nrl games for me this season- once they get the microscope out the flow of the match is disjointed and disrupted to a point where it has been sucked out of the game- "what are they looking at now?" have noticed quite a lot of booing at certain matches too - it will get to a point where the fans dare not cheer when a player scores in case it gets wiped off ages after the event - when that happens the fans wont want to go and watch and the players will get fed up of having their amazing efforts pulled to pieces by technology 

Yeah, I HATE it when a try is ''scored'', the players celebrate, the crowd goes up, and the commentators' juices are flowing.

Then the bunker comes in and the pin pops the balloon. It's not great when that happens.

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7 hours ago, bobbruce said:

I know what I’m saying is the technology won’t be measuring hand positions. It will be measuring player and ball movement so the wind needs to be accounted for. 

The wind is obviously going to affect the ball more than a 14, 15, 16, 17-stone RL player, so there might be problems on that front. I'm not a mathematician though. I just look at the hands, the point of release, the relative positions and speed of the two players, and where they both end up after the pass has been completed.

I rather agree with Dunbar's scepticism towards this emerging technology. The romance of a good wail about a fine pass that is called back or a bad one that is missed is a part of RL for me.

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5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

 

According to the article, they are not measuring the travel of the ball at all.  They are using the technology in the ball to infer the angle of the passer's hands as the ball leaves the hand.

Interesting. Good to see that they are minded to judge it in this fashion.

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Interesting to read the article all the way through -at 3.15 am , for heavens sake😴😴😴

Sounds good to me in that it seems to detect those short forward passes which are invisible because they are masked by the players being close together.

It's notoriously difficult..well nigh impossible indeed for officials, players,  coaches and of course spectators and viewers to detect (marginal) forward passes unless they are directly in line with, or immediately overhead of, the action. It's a very difficult question of the geometry of three bodies in motion: the ball, the passer and the recipient.

However, fear not, as there would still be an opportunity to blame the ref for favouring your team at the expense of mine.

Husemeyer anticipates an automated alert straight to the ear of the referee could be the best solution. "They will get in their ear and ultimately it will be down to the ref to decide what to do in the moment," he says.

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5 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yeah, I HATE it when a try is ''scored'', the players celebrate, the crowd goes up, and the commentators' juices are flowing.

Then the bunker comes in and the pin pops the balloon. It's not great when that happens.

spot on

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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