Sun 3rd Jul: SL: Warrington Wolves v Salford Red Devils KO 15:00

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I think Wolves' fans are being overly dramatic and pessimistic at the moment Dave, quick turn arounds when coaches change last about 5 minutes, long term planning and changes needed to achieve them can last decades.

Now I'm not a Powell fan in terms of his attitudes and some of his statements but clearly those players at Warrington  are not a happy bunch on the whole but it will almost certainly start to benefit the club next year.

Whether on not the club hangs on to see is another matter.

But this was one game against a very good attacking side that is patient but risky.

There are too many injuries both on and off the pitch for both sides as well as tired bodies right now.

If you look at this as, we should beat Salford everyday of the week, then you can't get upset if they lose because the players will have felt that way too and even in RL where dominance is everything there is no right to win against anyone.

The thing is we probably wouldn't have a thread or conversation like this if we didn't have relegation and it wouldn't be quite so dramatic if relegation wasn't so damaging.

 

 

 

          

I'm not sure a team sitting in 10th and being drawn into a relegation battle after finishing on average 3rd for the last few years and having the team ripped apart is overly pessimistic. 

It's rubbish and can't really be looked at any other way. 

I like Salford, I'll cheer them on against most teams outside of my own, but these claims about attack don't appear to be supported. Outside of the Wakey game where they bagged 13 tries, their try scoring feats are mid table, in line with Cas and Hull. 

[Oxford]

40 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure a team sitting in 10th and being drawn into a relegation battle after finishing on average 3rd for the last few years and having the team ripped apart is overly pessimistic. 

It's rubbish and can't really be looked at any other way. 

I like Salford, I'll cheer them on against most teams outside of my own, but these claims about attack don't appear to be supported. Outside of the Wakey game where they bagged 13 tries, their try scoring feats are mid table, in line with Cas and Hull. 

Wolves have tended to be hot and cold forever, and when cold they're suprisingly awful but is not new Dave, it;s just happening at a moment of transition. And even though all teams struggle during these periods Warrington fans expect everything to carry on as normal. That would be miraculous and completely against the models experienced.

As for your asssessment of SRD Dave interesting but really just fits the theory it was Wolves who lost. That's fine for coaches when they need to move on but seems negative and destructive to fans and their well being.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Wolves have tended to be hot and cold forever, and when cold they're suprisingly awful but is not new Dave, it;s just happening at a moment of transition. And even though all teams struggle during these periods Warrington fans expect everything to carry on as normal. That would be miraculous and completely against the models experienced.

As for your asssessment of SRD Dave interesting but really just fits the theory it was Wolves who lost. That's fine for coaches when they need to move on but seems negative and destructive to fans and their well being.

Your point isn't really supported by evidence. Wire have been a club playing at the top end of the table, making finals and winning the odd one (losing the majority, but getting there). 

Most clubs in that situation don't rip everything up and drop down to a relegation battle. 

Fans don't expect to plummet from 3rd to 10th and see top players hoofed out during the season. And nor should they expect and settle for that. 

But this is a discussion for the Wire thread rather than this game.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

“We….are…..going down, say we are going down”.  

Oi Dallas, what about the announcement I missed being no P&R this season, I think you should go to confession and say 6 Hail Mary's for fibbing!

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Your point isn't really supported by evidence. Wire have been a club playing at the top end of the table, making finals and winning the odd one (losing the majority, but getting there). 

Most clubs in that situation don't rip everything up and drop down to a relegation battle. 

Fans don't expect to plummet from 3rd to 10th and see top players hoofed out during the season. And nor should they expect and settle for that. 

But this is a discussion for the Wire thread rather than this game.

In '17 the Wolves were in the Middle 8's a mere 5 years later even accounting for an aborted season they would most probably be a bottom 4 team again this season, so 2 bottom 4 finishes in such a short period doesn't rank as a leading club, is it just bad internal politics at the HJ that is at fault or have other teams improved?

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

In '17 the Wolves were in the Middle 8's a mere 5 years later even accounting for an aborted season they would most probably be a bottom 4 team again this season, so 2 bottom 4 finishes in such a short period doesn't rank as a leading club, is it just bad internal politics at the HJ that is at fault or have other teams improved?

Well you can't really just ignore all the good finishes to create an artificial ranking. We've consistently been playing around the top of the table. 

This bottom 4 position has been created. 

[Harry Stottle]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This bottom 4 position has been created. 

Thanks for the reply, but I don't understand that sentance.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Thanks for the reply, but I don't understand that sentance.

Yeah, dinner was ready and I got distracted

My point here is that our current position isn't because of some natural turnover or cultural issues behind the scenes, it's solely because a new manager has come in and is aggressively shaking things up. This isn't a normal season, he has made an almighty balls up of it, and I think he will get the benefit of people waiting to the end of next year to judge, but in reality, we need to smash it next year, and it looks unlikely to happen. 

This isn't really a cycle that Wire are going through, we didn't need to offload all our three quarters and top scorers, we didn't need to be so aggressive, it was a choice and one that has backfired on Powell, I think he has shown real arrogance in his approach and I think he is a touch shell-shocked by how poor his team have been. The main change from a team that finished 3rd last year is Powell for Price. 

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Your point isn't really supported by evidence. Wire have been a club playing at the top end of the table, making finals and winning the odd one (losing the majority, but getting there). 

Most clubs in that situation don't rip everything up and drop down to a relegation battle. 

Fans don't expect to plummet from 3rd to 10th and see top players hoofed out during the season. And nor should they expect and settle for that. 

But this is a discussion for the Wire thread rather than this game.

First of all what fans expect is not relevant or any kind of evidence and wouldn't be argued if you go on to win the GF.

Wolves are not in the relegation battle.

I think you're right it belongs on the Wolves thread.

[Dave T]

Just now, Oxford said:

First of all what fans expect is not relevant or any kind of evidence and wouldn't be argued if you go on to win the GF.

Wolves are not in the relegation battle.

I think you're right it belongs on the Wolves thread.

On a fans forum, and in fact in real life, fans (customers) expectations are absolutely important. 

I hope your middle line is right, but I would argue that with 10 games to go, only being 3 wins ahead of the bottom team absolutely does put us in a relegation battle, especially if Toulouse win next week, where they have a very good chance against Wakey. I expect their French buddies will do them a favour against us! 

[ELBOWSEYE]

29 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yeah, dinner was ready and I got distracted

My point here is that our current position isn't because of some natural turnover or cultural issues behind the scenes, it's solely because a new manager has come in and is aggressively shaking things up. This isn't a normal season, he has made an almighty balls up of it, and I think he will get the benefit of people waiting to the end of next year to judge, but in reality, we need to smash it next year, and it looks unlikely to happen. 

This isn't really a cycle that Wire are going through, we didn't need to offload all our three quarters and top scorers, we didn't need to be so aggressive, it was a choice and one that has backfired on Powell, I think he has shown real arrogance in his approach and I think he is a touch shell-shocked by how poor his team have been. The main change from a team that finished 3rd last year is Powell for Price. 

I agree with lots of your points, but defence is firstly an attitude shored up with organisation. Its also very personal and reflects on the individual if you fail or succeed. It is also easiest area for a coaching set up to sort and both the players and coaches have to accept blame for their team and individual defensive performance. 

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

On a fans forum, and in fact in real life, fans (customers) expectations are absolutely important. 

I hope your middle line is right, but I would argue that with 10 games to go, only being 3 wins ahead of the bottom team absolutely does put us in a relegation battle, especially if Toulouse win next week, where they have a very good chance against Wakey. I expect their French buddies will do them a favour against us! 

I didn't say fans feelings weren't important Dave but their expectations are irrelevant in the face of what takes place on the paddock. And if they're unhappy they should let the club know.

You hope and sometimes it doesn't work that way.

Wolves might end up in the relegation area if, if, if, ..............

And those ifs include Wakey.

In ten games quite a few clubs could find themselves there or thereabouts.

I think your point about Powell may be correct but the players have a professional duty of contract as well.

But I think there is still an over reaction to losing to Sallford.

 

[Dallas Mead]

20 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I didn't say fans feelings weren't important Dave but their expectations are irrelevant in the face of what takes place on the paddock. And if they're unhappy they should let the club know.

You hope and sometimes it doesn't work that way.

Wolves might end up in the relegation area if, if, if, ..............

And those ifs include Wakey.

In ten games quite a few clubs could find themselves there or thereabouts.

I think your point about Powell may be correct but the players have a professional duty of contract as well.

But I think there is still an over reaction to losing to Sallford.

 

It’s not good enough losing at home to little Salford, it’s really not.

[Dave T]

29 minutes ago, Oxford said:

I didn't say fans feelings weren't important Dave but their expectations are irrelevant in the face of what takes place on the paddock. And if they're unhappy they should let the club know.

You hope and sometimes it doesn't work that way.

Wolves might end up in the relegation area if, if, if, ..............

And those ifs include Wakey.

In ten games quite a few clubs could find themselves there or thereabouts.

I think your point about Powell may be correct but the players have a professional duty of contract as well.

But I think there is still an over reaction to losing to Sallford.

 

I think some Salford fans are being over-sensitive, the conversations are the same as when we lost to Leeds, Wakey (and every other team this year). 

[Dave T]

40 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I agree with lots of your points, but defence is firstly an attitude shored up with organisation. Its also very personal and reflects on the individual if you fail or succeed. It is also easiest area for a coaching set up to sort and both the players and coaches have to accept blame for their team and individual defensive performance. 

Don't get me wrong, when I'm critical of Powell, not of that absolves the players of any thing. 

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think some Salford fans are being over-sensitive, the conversations are the same as when we lost to Leeds, Wakey (and every other team this year). 

Maybe if your talking DaveT, but the posts on Wolves social media sites would suggest otherwise.

And if SRD fans are being precious they'd have reason to be that way.

 

[Hammerless Nail]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think some Salford fans are being over-sensitive, the conversations are the same as when we lost to Leeds, Wakey (and every other team this year). 

Not some Salford fans. Just one.

[Red Willow]

Warrington often have a blip against Salford, don't know if it is a lack of respect or Salford just get under the skin.

Most fans accept a dip in results if they can appreciate what the coach is aiming to do. Sometimes it is necessary if the culture of the club needs to be addressed. Powell seems to think that is the case and he offloaded players he thinks are unwilling to adapt.

As for Salford, it's great to see the fight in the side, to come back from the position they were in is fantastic. Maybe Warrington were in a false position as they scored the bulk of points when Salford were reduced in numbers.

[Wilderspoolmemories]

On 04/07/2022 at 00:05, johnh1 said:

Any chance that it might just have been that Salford played well?

If they were so great pal,  how come they were 8-24 behind in the first place?

[tonyXIII]

14 hours ago, Wilderspoolmemories said:

If they were so great pal,  how come they were 8-24 behind in the first place?

It's not whether you get knocked down. It's whether you've got the fight in you to get back up again.