IMG - Thought's, suggestions and comments to move the game forward

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Sport isn't mainstream in the way that it was in the 1980s. Most footballers could walk unidentified down most high streets even though they're on £200,000 per week. I couldn't confidently name a single member of any Six Nations RU team right now. Back 'in the day' I had the same level of interest as now (basically, none) but could have named a good few from each team because things like Grandstand existed.

The world has changed. 

Yup,  unrealistic goals are a real problem. 

[Copa]

55 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think we're well behind Australia.

Our gambling issues are serious and do need addressing but, frankly, they make us look like amateurs.

Gambling is appalling in Australia. It’s a cultural blind spot here in the same way guns are in parts of the US.

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

There are currently only 7 teams (And one of those has huge problems) that cut the mustard.

Needs a total re-brand and new comp:)

 

P

In truth even those 7 don't cut the mustard.  If the salary cap had kept pace with inflation it would be 3 million £ now, could any of the 7 afford to pay that much?

[Pulga]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

it probably is a series of smarter decisions,  investment and performance that will lead to positive change. 

 

It's almost like that's exactly what is needed.

But the clubs have the power and they'd rather be small fish in a puddle than have to eventually complete against big fish in the ocean.

[Pulga]

19 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

We’re talking about solutions for the British market. Get it into your head that P&R is an essential component of that solution, you’ll save yourself a pile of effort.

 

 

I personally would be happy for all games to be televised, however it would be extremely unusual for it to happen in this market. Maybe extended highlights of the non-televised games (not tucked away on late night BBC) would be more appropriate.

Nothing will change until it is scrapped. Hopefully IMG can make them see.

 

It's 2022. Stream it.

 

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, Pulga said:

It's almost like that's exactly what is needed.

But the clubs have the power and they'd rather be small fish in a puddle than have to eventually complete against big fish in the ocean.

But thats just a soundbite that doesn't mean anything.  The British game,  despite having very little money to its name has admitted Paris,  Catalans,  Toronto,  Gateshead,  South Wales,  Toulouse,  Cornwall,  plus others to their pyramid during the last 25 years. 

We have driven World Cups and other international tournaments,  often thwarted by a reluctant key partner. 

We've tried new structures etc. 

These aren't the actions of an unambitious sport -  the majority of them have failed due to having poor leaders and not enough money. 

But the game here has never lacked ambition,  despite what many will claim. 

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Nothing will change until it is scrapped. Hopefully IMG can make them see.

 

It's 2022. Stream it.

 

Club RU over here have just launched a streaming service for their comp,  it'll be interesting to see how that goes. 

On the comments under the ads for it,  it is interesting to see the negative response to it, and the game in general from their fans.  They are very similar to comments here. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Club RU over here have just launched a streaming service for their comp,  it'll be interesting to see how that goes. 

On the comments under the ads for it,  it is interesting to see the negative response to it, and the game in general from their fans.  They are very similar to comments here. 

Seems to be a growing trend around the world for leagues to offer a dedicated and league-owned streaming service covering all (or virtually all) games over and above any TV deals.

That was what a lot of us thought Our League would end up doing.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Seems to be a growing trend around the world for leagues to offer a dedicated and league-owned streaming service covering all (or virtually all) games over and above any TV deals.

That was what a lot of us thought Our League would end up doing.

We were told that all SL games would be filmed to quality broadcasting standards which would have allowed for this -  turns out it was a lie. 

I'd be stunned if this wasn't an area for IMG to focus on and actually deliver this time instead of just lying to us. 

A real challenge for us is that we have really limited markets to sell into,  but if all games were covered it does allow for a proper package to be sold for international rights. I think that's how the RU one started life. 

On my original post and ambition,  it should be remembered that one of the first comps to broadcast every game was the 1997 WCC. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Dave T

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

 

 

It's 2022. Stream it.

 

That shows how little you understand the UK market. Sport streaming is very much in it's infancy here and I don't see any of the big players seeking out RL any time soon, so far there has only really been Tennis and Premier League. 

The only way to get widespread exposure for the game is still free to air terrestrial TV, linear TV has more than 50% of viewers and probably will for many years to come.  

We've got OurLeague of course, but that is very much preaching to the choir. A bloke in Devon or Norfolk is not going seek out RL in that format, but he is fairly likely to watch a free broadcast on one of the big 5.

Edited September 5, 2022 by David Shepherd

[Pulga]

1 hour ago, David Shepherd said:

That shows how little you understand the UK market. Sport streaming is very much in it's infancy here and I don't see any of the big players seeking out RL any time soon, so far there has only really been Tennis and Premier League. 

The only way to get widespread exposure for the game is still free to air terrestrial TV, linear TV has more than 50% of viewers and probably will for many years to come.  

We've got OurLeague of course, but that is very much preaching to the choir. A bloke in Devon or Norfolk is not going seek out RL in that format, but he is fairly likely to watch a free broadcast on one of the big 5.

I take that back. It's not 2022 in the UK apparently.

[Dave T]

51 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I take that back. It's not 2022 in the UK apparently.

You seem to really struggle to understand that different markets behave differently.  That's quite weird. 

[Pulga]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You seem to really struggle to understand that different markets behave differently.  That's quite weird. 

It's interesting because there's a 3% difference in the percentage of people who say they stream sports in Australia to those who say they stream sports in the UK.

So the UK has much more than DOUBLE the amount of people streaming sports. 

Not sure if you noticed but streaming is enormous basically everywhere that has the internet. It's going to continue to eat away at the share of how consumers watch their content. 

You really struggle to keep up with the times. That's quite weird.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Just caught up on the last few pages of this thread and for all I disagree with on Pulga's take overall, he's right about streaming. SL needs to be bold and a designated streaming platform (which presents itself in no way like OurLeague app) would be a huge move and in time begin to help the sport move away from the reliance solely on Sky money. 

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

I take that back. It's not 2022 in the UK apparently.

You're just making yourself look daft now.

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, Pulga said:

It's interesting because there's a 3% difference in the percentage of people who say they stream sports in Australia to those who say they stream sports in the UK.

So the UK has much more than DOUBLE the amount of people streaming sports. 

Not sure if you noticed but streaming is enormous basically everywhere that has the internet. It's going to continue to eat away at the share of how consumers watch their content. 

You really struggle to keep up with the times. That's quite weird.

 

27 minutes ago, Pulga said:

It's interesting because there's a 3% difference in the percentage of people who say they stream sports in Australia to those who say they stream sports in the UK.

So the UK has much more than DOUBLE the amount of people streaming sports. 

Not sure if you noticed but streaming is enormous basically everywhere that has the internet. It's going to continue to eat away at the share of how consumers watch their content. 

You really struggle to keep up with the times. That's quite weird.

You can take up the streaming debate with the other David,  I don't agree with his analysis of the streaming market in the UK. 

But I also don't agree with yours,  and that isn't about streaming,  it's about how to monetise that.  PPV and subscriptions have been challenging for bigger sports than ours. 

If yiu try actually reading posts,  you'll see I acknowledge that I expect IMG to absolutely have a streaming solution on their list,  but I think it will be a real challenge to monetise it,  and in fact it has a real risk of being a cost to the game. 

For streaming to be worthwhile,  it absolutely has to bring in money,  because its not about eyeballs. 

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Just caught up on the last few pages of this thread and for all I disagree with on Pulga's take overall, he's right about streaming. SL needs to be bold and a designated streaming platform (which presents itself in no way like OurLeague app) would be a huge move and in time begin to help the sport move away from the reliance solely on Sky money. 

Bringing in millions of quid in income via streaming is going to be very challenging for RL.  The RU equivalent will be interesting to watch. 

[David Shepherd]

25 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Just caught up on the last few pages of this thread and for all I disagree with on Pulga's take overall, he's right about streaming. SL needs to be bold and a designated streaming platform (which presents itself in no way like OurLeague app) would be a huge move and in time begin to help the sport move away from the reliance solely on Sky money. 

But in the real world, rather than Pulga's fantasy island. We need a major partner like Amazon etc. Do we really have the resources to set up our own streaming platform? I very much doubt it.  

Even if we had the resources to set up our own platform, we're just not well known enough for the likes of Samsung to include our app on TVs.  I doubt even Sky Glass would see us as significant enough to include our app. Without a presence on a major platform, we're just not going to get the critical mass we need to either make it pay or boost our profile.

 

 

 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

But in the real world, rather than Pulga's fantasy island. We need a major partner like Amazon etc. Do we really have the resources to set up our own streaming platform? I very much doubt it.  

Even if we had the resources to set up our own platform, we're just not well known enough for the likes of Samsung to include our app on TVs.  I doubt even Sky Glass would see us as significant enough to include our app. Without a presence on a major platform, we're just not going to get the critical mass we need to either make it pay or boost our profile.

 

 

 

An RL dedicated streaming app will never be any more than a niche service. 

That's not to say we shouldn't do it, we absolutely should,  but it isn't going to replace core media deals,  it will supplement,  filling a few gaps imho. 

[David Shepherd]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

You can take up the streaming debate with the other David,  I don't agree with his analysis of the streaming market in the UK. 

But I also don't agree with yours,  and that isn't about streaming,  it's about how to monetise that.  PPV and subscriptions have been challenging for bigger sports than ours. 

If yiu try actually reading posts,  you'll see I acknowledge that I expect IMG to absolutely have a streaming solution on their list,  but I think it will be a real challenge to monetise it,  and in fact it has a real risk of being a cost to the game. 

For streaming to be worthwhile,  it absolutely has to bring in money,  because its not about eyeballs. 

We're nowhere near significant enough warrant building our own platform, nor are we significant enough for one of the major streamers to pick us up.

As you say, streaming needs to pay.  It's never going to make the sport more visible. Until we've got the kind of visibility that can only be achieved by FTA presence, streaming is a very expensive blind alley imho.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Bringing in millions of quid in income via streaming is going to be very challenging for RL.  The RU equivalent will be interesting to watch. 

It definitely will be interesting - they've got it alone from what I can gather and whilst i'm not invested for it to succeed, i'll be intrigued if it does. 

10 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

But in the real world, rather than Pulga's fantasy island. We need a major partner like Amazon etc. Do we really have the resources to set up our own streaming platform? I very much doubt it.  

Even if we had the resources to set up our own platform, we're just not well known enough for the likes of Samsung to include our app on TVs.  I doubt even Sky Glass would see us as significant enough to include our app. Without a presence on a major platform, we're just not going to get the critical mass we need to either make it pay or boost our profile.

 

 

 

Fair - Watch NRL is operated by Fox. Maybe to get audience buy in and to actually produce a decent platform/content it starts via an existing broadcaster.

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

An RL dedicated streaming app will never be any more than a niche service. 

That's not to say we shouldn't do it, we absolutely should,  but it isn't going to replace core media deals,  it will supplement,  filling a few gaps imho. 

For sure - I definitely didn't mean we should do away with linear broadcast deals. But streaming is the way most people will be watching sport in the next 10 years, so we should start to pursue that ASAP.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

It definitely will be interesting - they've got it alone from what I can gather and whilst i'm not invested for it to succeed, i'll be intrigued if it does. 

Fair - Watch NRL is operated by Fox. Maybe to get audience buy in and to actually produce a decent platform/content it starts via an existing broadcaster.

For sure - I definitely didn't mean we should do away with linear broadcast deals. But streaming is the way most people will be watching sport in the next 10 years, so we should start to pursue that ASAP.

I think the opportunities we have are around international rights on this. Getting all games covered means you can sell whole packages,  whether that is via international broadcasters or direct to customers. 

International markets expect all games -  I'd expect rights would be easier to sell to Oz,  NZ,  North America,  even France if yiu can offer every game live or delayed. Its basically the Premier League approach,  a handful of games shown live in the UK,  all of them on international platforms. 

The big problem is that there aren't any ready made RL markets that are willing to Shell out good money to make this viable at the moment. RU is in a  different place where they have some established markets across the world where I expect they get money from to make it worthwhile to film every game to broadcasting standards. 

It's why the lie that Sky were to film every game to allow us to stream it was so disappointing. Davey really should be held to account on that one. 

[David Shepherd]

54 minutes ago, Pulga said:

It's interesting because there's a 3% difference in the percentage of people who say they stream sports in Australia to those who say they stream sports in the UK.

So the UK has much more than DOUBLE the amount of people streaming sports. 

Not sure if you noticed but streaming is enormous basically everywhere that has the internet. It's going to continue to eat away at the share of how consumers watch their content. 

You really struggle to keep up with the times. That's quite weird.

And what you don't seem to understand is that the overwhelming majority of live sport is broadcast and consumed on linear tv. 

Amazon have bought a few Premier League games to stream live and the premier league itself streams about 35 games a season live.  This is the reality, not some pie in the sky notion that streaming automatically means there will be millions of eyeballs on our sport.

We need exposure. You only get that from traditional linear, free to air TV.

It's kind of the same argument we had at the dawn of Satellite TV. We took the money, hid behind a paywall and totally slipped out of public consciousness. 

 

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

We're nowhere near significant enough warrant building our own platform, nor are we significant enough for one of the major streamers to pick us up.

As you say, streaming needs to pay.  It's never going to make the sport more visible. Until we've got the kind of visibility that can only be achieved by FTA presence, streaming is a very expensive blind alley imho.

We do actually have a platform,  it's already built,  but I'm also not sure how expensive that actually is. I'm not sure that is the blocker. I also believe that IMG have their own service that can be white labelled and used,  but not sure. 

The challenge is about getting scale here.  

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

The big problem is that there aren't any ready made RL markets that are willing to Shell out good money to make this viable at the moment.

But, as we know from here, there are individuals dotted around the globe, probably a few thousand of them, who would, at least, like to be able to legally watch UK rugby league and are prepared to pay for it.

We can't even offer that at the minute.