What is the latest on South African Rugby League?

[Programme Guy]

19 hours ago, Eddie said:

I sometimes think (when I’m driving, running or cycling and have too much time for thinking) that RL could actually take over RU in a country such as Holland or Norway, where if all their domestic players swapped to League they’d have a much better chance of making a WC than in Union, where they have zero chance. I know it’s a pipedream but if the RL world was united and focused on the international game they could try to do that. 

An absolutely ridiculous (and deluded) suggestion. 

Rugby in Holland is bigger than League in France. 

Holland has almost 90 rugby clubs. It has regional academies where parents pay to send their kids. It has a dedicated rugby stadium for its union to play national games, and it retains a permanent academy at the stadium with full time staff. Its union has close ties with a number of professional French clubs and sends young players to France to play professionally. There are rugby clubs in Holland who will organise large touring groups of 50 people to follow the B&I Lions team to South Africa (for example). 

These people form a large community who love the game of union. They have NO WISH to stop playing/watching/supporting their sport and take up Rugby League, a separate game that they know nothing about. 

It shows a fait degree of arrogance to think that people would give up a sport that (for whatever reason) they love and have built a whole community around, and take up Rugby League. 

I am guessing you are a Kiwi (warriors logo) so will just assume you have no idea how ingrained the sport of rugby is into a (small yet sizeable enough) portion of the Dutch sporting society. There is literally ZERO chance that they are going to give all of that up and change to a completely different sport. If it is not arrogance, then I am sorry, it is deluded fantasy nonsense. 

League needs to grow organically and in the past there has been some great development work done in Holland. I have recommended a player to them in the past year (a guy who has been on the verge of pro union in North America) and I am aware that he is due to trial for them at RL later this year. He is a good athlete, who will be a very useful League player for their level. Baby steps. 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

An absolutely ridiculous (and deluded) suggestion. 

Rugby in Holland is bigger than League in France. 

Holland has almost 90 rugby clubs. It has regional academies where parents pay to send their kids. It has a dedicated rugby stadium for its union to play national games, and it retains a permanent academy at the stadium with full time staff. Its union has close ties with a number of professional French clubs and sends young players to France to play professionally. There are rugby clubs in Holland who will organise large touring groups of 50 people to follow the B&I Lions team to South Africa (for example). 

These people form a large community who love the game of union. They have NO WISH to stop playing/watching/supporting their sport and take up Rugby League, a separate game that they know nothing about. 

It shows a fait degree of arrogance to think that people would give up a sport that (for whatever reason) they love and have built a whole community around, and take up Rugby League. 

I am guessing you are a Kiwi (warriors logo) so will just assume you have no idea how ingrained the sport of rugby is into a (small yet sizeable enough) portion of the Dutch sporting society. There is literally ZERO chance that they are going to give all of that up and change to a completely different sport. If it is not arrogance, then I am sorry, it is deluded fantasy nonsense. 

League needs to grow organically and in the past there has been some great development work done in Holland. I have recommended a player to them in the past year (a guy who has been on the verge of pro union in North America) and I am aware that he is due to trial for them at RL later this year. He is a good athlete, who will be a very useful League player for their level. Baby steps. 

Following your first sentence I couldn’t be bothered to read the rest of that, but only 57 posts to go

[Pie tries]

1 hour ago, NW10LDN said:

Pacific nations are the most likely. Union only got there first because it was introducted by the British administrators. I was looking at some union forum and they were worried about RL now enjoying the popularity as RU in Tonga. It's growing in Samoa and Fiji.

Two teams in NZ would set that country alight…

[Number 16]

34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Following your first sentence I couldn’t be bothered to read the rest of that, but only 57 posts to go

You should, because what he posts is relevant, instructive and interesting.

[Oxford]

44 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Following your first sentence I couldn’t be bothered to read the rest of that, but only 57 posts to go

Don't listen Eddie, it was negative, predictable, pedestrian and the sort stuff you could read in the comments in ru sections of the Mail.

Having said that everyone's entitled to an opinion in my view.

[Eddie]

21 minutes ago, Number 16 said:

You should, because what he posts is relevant, instructive and interesting.

I said in my post that it was just a pipe dream and I thought it when I had too much time on my hands - ie I know it’s b0110ck5. His confrontational language then put me off. 

[eal]

16 hours ago, Oxford said:

There is an assumption that we'll always see yoonion as the culprits behind RL's lack of progress. To some extent although they may be less active or completely inactive compared with actions of the past, the fact is all the damage was done decades and decades ago.

This is certainly not the ongoing conflict the way it was previously and certainly shouldn't be part of life or sport in this day and age.

Above someone said he knew South Africans with an active dislike for RL but that it was no threat. Such statements are  made without explanation or even questions all too often in RL circles. If RL is no threat to k&c why would anyone in SA dislike it? Or how or why could those things both be true?  And here I'm not saying these things are not the case just that it's as well to remember how that state of affairs might have come about and how RL's lack of development might no longer need the helping hand of anyone involved in ru. It's also true that even if such statements are wholly accurate there is no responsibility on anyone in RL to accept them as gospel and simply give up trying.

 

 

My comment isn't about any South Africans in positions of authority who could actively harm Rugby League. It is just something I have noticed with many South African friends, at least the ones I knew when I lived in NZ. They would see Rugby League on the television and seemingly have quite a strong dislike of it, not something I can explain, just something I noticed. Only anecdotal evidence I know, but an observation nonetheless.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, Programme Guy said:

These people form a large community who love the game of union.

They may form a community. And that's lovely for them.

But it's not large and is heavily influenced, in much the same way as cricket, by South African connections.

And union is way, way behind football, volleyball, handball, basketball, korfball and baseball in terms of participation, clubs, memberships etc

[Oxford]

46 minutes ago, eal said:

My comment isn't about any South Africans in positions of authority who could actively harm Rugby League. It is just something I have noticed with many South African friends, at least the ones I knew when I lived in NZ. They would see Rugby League on the television and seemingly have quite a strong dislike of it, not something I can explain, just something I noticed. Only anecdotal evidence I know, but an observation nonetheless.

I never thought you saw SA people as being actively against RL. Your post simply painted a sadly negative picture. As I said I've no reason to doubt your obsevations. That strong dislike of anything is not something that just happens. And most of the time anecdotal is all we have to go on.

I was in no way having a go, I don't do that or try not to, I was just reacting to what you said in your post.

Edited August 15 by Oxford

[Programme Guy]

46 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They may form a community. And that's lovely for them.

But it's not large and is heavily influenced, in much the same way as cricket, by South African connections.

And union is way, way behind football, volleyball, handball, basketball, korfball and baseball in terms of participation, clubs, memberships etc

None of that is really relevant. They have the guts of 100 clubs. More than the FFRXIII. They are not going to switch to League because they have no real interest in it. 

My reaction was down to this recurring theme where fans on here think that because we like Rugby League, the rest of the world has to like it too. The vast majority of fans of 'rugby', prefer union. That is true for a multitude of different reasons, but it is not really going to change.  The idea that an established union country would switch en masse to League just to qualify for the RL World Cup (which in terms of scheduling, is not even on a regular cycle!!) is absolutely laughable. 

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

None of that is really relevant. They have the guts of 100 clubs. More than the FFRXIII. They are not going to switch to League because they have no real interest in it. 

My reaction was down to this recurring theme where fans on here think that because we like Rugby League, the rest of the world has to like it too. The vast majority of fans of 'rugby', prefer union. That is true for a multitude of different reasons, but it is not really going to change.  The idea that an established union country would switch en masse to League just to qualify for the RL World Cup (which in terms of scheduling, is not even on a regular cycle!!) is absolutely laughable. 

It wasn’t a serious suggestion though, and I don’t think anyone on this forum has ever said that they think the rest of the world should like RL either. Only 55 posts to go now btw  

[gingerjon]

35 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

None of that is really relevant. They have the guts of 100 clubs. More than the FFRXIII. They are not going to switch to League because they have no real interest in it. 

My reaction was down to this recurring theme where fans on here think that because we like Rugby League, the rest of the world has to like it too. The vast majority of fans of 'rugby', prefer union. That is true for a multitude of different reasons, but it is not really going to change.  The idea that an established union country would switch en masse to League just to qualify for the RL World Cup (which in terms of scheduling, is not even on a regular cycle!!) is absolutely laughable. 

It’s relevant. The Netherlands, and all manner of countries where union is not on any meaningful mainstream radar, could become a league nation without a single union fan switching.

It’s highly unlikely but once you realise how insignificant union is, you realise that it is possible.

[NW10LDN]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It wasn’t a serious suggestion though, and I don’t think anyone on this forum has ever said that they think the rest of the world should like RL either. Only 55 posts to go now btw  

He's also leaving comments in the Auckland RL thread about this.

[Programme Guy]

4 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

He's also leaving comments in the Auckland RL thread about this.

What a cowardly post. 

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It’s relevant. The Netherlands, and all manner of countries where union is not on any meaningful mainstream radar, could become a league nation without a single union fan switching.

It’s highly unlikely but once you realise how insignificant union is, you realise that it is possible.

So with almost 100 clubs, and the physical infrastructure that goes with that, not to mention the support they get from international governing bodies (international pathways competitions, structured international calendar, coaching, medical, high performance support etc), how would this happen? (ie: a change from union to League without "a single union fan switching"?)

Talk me through it. 

[Futtocks]

2 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

What a cowardly post. 

 Busted!

[Eddie]

Just now, Futtocks said:

 Busted!

It’s Tarquin, Harlequins fan from Surbiton, doesn’t get out much. 

[NW10LDN]

6 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

What a cowardly post. 

So with almost 100 clubs, and the physical infrastructure that goes with that, not to mention the support they get from international governing bodies (international pathways competitions, structured international calendar, coaching, medical, high performance support etc), how would this happen? (ie: a change from union to League without "a single union fan switching"?)

Talk me through it. 

I don't really care. Don't get annoyed because you were caught out.

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Programme Guy said:

What a cowardly post. 

So with almost 100 clubs, and the physical infrastructure that goes with that, not to mention the support they get from international governing bodies (international pathways competitions, structured international calendar, coaching, medical, high performance support etc), how would this happen? (ie: a change from union to League without "a single union fan switching"?)

Talk me through it. 

League doesn’t need union fans to switch.

Which is just as well because, as the Netherlands shows, it’s a really minor sport in most countries around the world.

Handball in the UK has as many players and clubs but no one with any sense would call it a large community.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

League doesn’t need union fans to switch.

Which is just as well because, as the Netherlands shows, it’s a really minor sport in most countries around the world.

Handball in the UK has as many players and clubs but no one with any sense would call it a large community.

According to World Rugby Unions own usually highly inflated figures there are only 14,403 registered RU players in the Netherlands. That is less than French RL.

[eal]

How many international games would a Netherlands RL side get to play? Presumably not the 5-10 the RU team get to play? In the unlikely event that one could even convince the Netherlands to swap allegiances, what exactly would they be swapping to? The opportunity to play Serbia once every three years and maybe qualify for World Cup that may or may not be held every four years? Dutch rugby union has a long history and future World Cup qualification isn't that far fetched, they are only a few places out of the last European qualification spot.

Edited August 17 by eal

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, eal said:

How many international games would a Netherlands RL side get to play?

Three matches this year, three matches last year.

[Taniwha Warriors]

On 16/08/2022 at 04:17, eal said:

My comment isn't about any South Africans in positions of authority who could actively harm Rugby League. It is just something I have noticed with many South African friends, at least the ones I knew when I lived in NZ. They would see Rugby League on the television and seemingly have quite a strong dislike of it, not something I can explain, just something I noticed. Only anecdotal evidence I know, but an observation nonetheless.

It’s probably the same reaction when us Pacific Islanders see AFL or soccer when turn the tv on.