RL Commercial - Paying peanuts to get ...

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

make the job sound like the person will be running the show, when in reality they are often just in delivery/execution

I absolutely think this person will be expected to lead and manage all the things that the JD says they will be leading and managing.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I think this goes back to the problem of what the actual real-life expectations, responsibilities and objectives are. These Role descriptions are often far too high level, and make the job sound like the person will be running the show, when in reality they are often just in delivery/execution. 

In our structure Executive is used for lower roles, but as per John's message, there is Senior Marketing Exec roles, which is a contradiction within our stucture.

So, yes, I agree it appears modest (I think I described it as miserly!) - but I don't think it is shockingly low. And we have absolutely seen shockingly low salaries in the past from the RFL. TBH, i'm surprised that this isn't being advertised at around 28k.

which is all fair comment but then who the hell i writing the job description as its not just the job title its the general experience (i wasnt going off the job title in my initial comparison as it doesnt marry up to University titles, which are strange, just working off the experience needed and what is being asked for). If they want the right people at the right level to apply the job description has to be tailored for that, job titles, i agree, can be misleading but the description shouldnt. That Job is not a 38k job, it certainly isnt a £33k job

[Oxford]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

It can mean 2 things.. 

Yes it depends very much on the size of the clipboard as a mark of authority and the length of the lunches makes for wonderful afternoons.

 

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree it appears modest (I think I described it as miserly!)

I think it's just capitalism on the cheap or very much the usual, run of the mill, everday, common or garden variety.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

which is all fair comment but then who the hell i writing the job description as its not just the job title its the general experience (i wasnt going off the job title in my initial comparison as it doesnt marry up to University titles, which are strange, just working off the experience needed and what is being asked for). If they want the right people at the right level to apply the job description has to be tailored for that, job titles, i agree, can be misleading but the description shouldnt. That Job is not a 38k job, it certainly isnt a £33k job

Yep, absolutely agreed. I can only work on my won experience at multiple banks, and tbh, the recruiting managers often copy and paste role profiles and they were probably written a good few years ago with a few tweaks.

This is the same point I was going to make to @gingerjon in response to his last post on responsibilities - there is a hell of a lot of vagueness. The word 'lead' in reality means next to nothing, other vague phrases like 'working with' 'assisting' etc. do make the JD difficult to really translate into what the actual job is and responsibilities are. 

But I get that, in effect, the job ad is a piece of marketing to get somebody interested to start a conversation. 

One thing I would add, and it's not a principle I like, but the RFL are probably aware that their industry and name is probably a bit of a booster in terms of attractiveness.

[RP London]

26 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Yes it depends very much on the size of the clipboard as a mark of authority and the length of the lunches makes for wonderful afternoons.

 

 

i'm sure it was once said "you cannot judge a man by the size of his clipboard alone"... never a truer word said 

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The word 'lead' in reality means next to nothing, other vague phrases like 'working with' 'assisting' etc. do make the JD difficult to really translate into what the actual job is and responsibilities are. 

 

If I were applying, I'd want to know the size of the team, as well as what sort of financial and other targets we were really talking about.

I think it's a case of a kitchen sink job description and, whilst I'd love to be proved wrong, I don't see how the role (or organisation) can be a success with recruitment like this.

It's not the worst I've seen in sport this week though. This morning a national league general manager role in another sport caught my eye. Multiple years managerial experience required, definite responsibility for both the herding cats of keeping clubs onside whilst ensuring regulatory compliance and market growth. All that for 25k.

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yep, absolutely agreed. I can only work on my won experience at multiple banks, and tbh, the recruiting managers often copy and paste role profiles and they were probably written a good few years ago with a few tweaks.

This is the same point I was going to make to @gingerjon in response to his last post on responsibilities - there is a hell of a lot of vagueness. The word 'lead' in reality means next to nothing, other vague phrases like 'working with' 'assisting' etc. do make the JD difficult to really translate into what the actual job is and responsibilities are. 

But I get that, in effect, the job ad is a piece of marketing to get somebody interested to start a conversation. 

One thing I would add, and it's not a principle I like, but the RFL are probably aware that their industry and name is probably a bit of a booster in terms of attractiveness.

The general reaction I got to it was "they'll be lucky to get an applicant" as the JD is so poorly written but also because it doesn't match the wage at all if you take it on face value. If you are looking for someone to interpret it you'll be sifting through a lot of chaff to find your one grain!

I know if i sold up and wanted a job to keep me ticking over then I would be choosy about who i worked for and working for the RFL may mean I'd take less but I does the RFL have that good a name in the sports industry as a whole? also how much below asking are you prepared to go for a name?? (Genuinely don't know.. never worked like that myself as its always the best fit or money before I came back into this business). 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If I were applying, I'd want to know the size of the team, as well as what sort of financial and other targets we were really talking about.

I think it's a case of a kitchen sink job description and, whilst I'd love to be proved wrong, I don't see how the role (or organisation) can be a success with recruitment like this.

It's not the worst I've seen in sport this week though. This morning a national league general manager role in another sport caught my eye. Multiple years managerial experience required, definite responsibility for both the herding cats of keeping clubs onside whilst ensuring regulatory compliance and market growth. All that for 25k.

its a part time job then.... 

[Damien]

I always take job descriptions with a pinch of salt, I've seen enough that cover every possibility that bare little resemblance to the day to day role.

I think its obvious from the salary that it is a fairly senior role with a fair bit of responsibility, it is just low paid for that. Conversely it is quite obvious its not a junior role following the direction of others as the salary would be £20-30k and you'd be looking at graduate level.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

If I were applying, I'd want to know the size of the team, as well as what sort of financial and other targets we were really talking about.

I think it's a case of a kitchen sink job description and, whilst I'd love to be proved wrong, I don't see how the role (or organisation) can be a success with recruitment like this.

It's not the worst I've seen in sport this week though. This morning a national league general manager role in another sport caught my eye. Multiple years managerial experience required, definite responsibility for both the herding cats of keeping clubs onside whilst ensuring regulatory compliance and market growth. All that for 25k.

Agree with all that. It's definitely not the worst I've seen this week either, I've been supporting interviews with a peer who is interviewing, and the problem with vague JD's is that he is working through candidates that have salary expectations ranging from £25k to 80k.

The positive about this role is that it does have the salary range, rather than the unhelpful £competitive

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, RP London said:

The general reaction I got to it was "they'll be lucky to get an applicant" as the JD is so poorly written but also because it doesn't match the wage at all if you take it on face value. If you are looking for someone to interpret it you'll be sifting through a lot of chaff to find your one grain!

I know if i sold up and wanted a job to keep me ticking over then I would be choosy about who i worked for and working for the RFL may mean I'd take less but I does the RFL have that good a name in the sports industry as a whole? also how much below asking are you prepared to go for a name?? (Genuinely don't know.. never worked like that myself as its always the best fit or money before I came back into this business). 

Again, I can only go off my experiences within the businesses I work at, but I know plenty of Marketing Managers who aren't on amazing money. It's not the area I work in, but one I engage with in my role. There are absolutely people who I could see being attracted away from some of the grey marketing within finance to be drawn to a role that has involvement with sponsors and major sporting events. 

I genuinely expect they will get a decent level of interest. But I suppose ultimately the point is whether they are the level of candidate you should really be aiming for.

[JohnM]

9 hours ago, Oxford said:

That's odd because I just thought it meant the one with the longest lunches and a large clipboard.

 

That's a Marketing Manager or Director function.

[Phil]

My daughter works in marketing, she gets substantially more than this and she’s not even the manager.

Offer peanuts get monkeys