Rugby League back at Lamport Stadium

[bbfaz]

11 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Only a Yorkshireman could say that.

I live in the countryside now so, though I am not from Yorkshire, I am still allowed to be tight.

EDIT: Also, there's a discussion (here or on the Community Forum) about somebody charging £6 for a tier 5 game and it was taking the mick a little.

Edited April 29, 2023 by bbfaz

[bbfaz]

3 hours ago, Madrileño said:

That didn't stop them pulling in 9.5k for a game against Swinton in the Championship.

That's right... the Championship. There are clubs who have had 100 years of practice and none of them can pull that sort of crowd in the Championship.

Their broken down practice field is more modern than castleford or wakefield's ramshackle "stadia" and remember that neither Salford, Wakefield or Hudds are capable of pulling in 9.5k supporters in Super League, never mind the championship.

Toronto embarrassed a number of established floater clubs by being more professional in 24 months than the floaters could manage in 90 years. 

They were very good at marketing but at what cost?  They were in massive debt before Covid and they still owe people money now.  It's this Silicon Valley model of "creating a brand" and "developing a customer base" but not caring about the bottom line in the hope somebody buys you out.  They might try to come back but haven't they damaged the game and damaged the possibility of North American expansion?

[DI Keith Fowler]

13 hours ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Not be so negative, insular and anti expansion.

SL is wonderful.

4 clubs within a 15+ mile radius: Wigan, Saints, Warrington and Leigh.

No surprise that the current TV deal plummeted from £40million to £25 million.

I'm quite pro expansion but that £40 million deal came about when we had Wigan, Saints, Warrington & Widnes in a 15 mile radius.

[Davo5]

Great to see Rugby League still continuing in the city,a real shame it’s not being applauded on this thread & instead it’s descended into a TWP moanfest.

[binosh]

Same old names trotting out the same old nonsense, unwilling to accept reality, Toronto was sheer vanity and stupidity, 6+ hour flights to play games, struggling for players after 4 games, owing money left right and centre, hollow promises, fake TV deals, fake North American athletes, fake tv documentaries, fake men’s grooming products. 
 

Sucked in the deluded on here though that still think it was viable. 

[Omott91]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Any chance of a link? 

Hopefully someone with better IT knowledge than I can post it.

It was a short video of a wolf howling, maybe a metaphor for a comeback of some capacity.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Omott91

[The Masked Poster]

56 minutes ago, binosh said:

Same old names trotting out the same old nonsense, unwilling to accept reality, Toronto was sheer vanity and stupidity, 6+ hour flights to play games, struggling for players after 4 games, owing money left right and centre, hollow promises, fake TV deals, fake North American athletes, fake tv documentaries, fake men’s grooming products. 
 

Sucked in the deluded on here though that still think it was viable. 

It didn't cost British RL - or you and me - one penny. It has highlighted the real problem with the game though, because *be under no illusion* practically the same things have been trotted out about Sheffield, London, and now Cornwall. (Before that it was Welsh clubs) 

It's almost irrelevant who or where a new club is or how many hoops they jump through - British RL does not want outsiders joining their party and having any of their cake. 

That's the bottom line. Accept it.

 

[bbfaz]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Great to see Rugby League still continuing in the city,a real shame it’s not being applauded on this thread & instead it’s descended into a TWP moanfest.

Everybody is happy and positive for Ontario Rugby League to grow and evolve.  It's the Wolfpack True Believers that started the Wolfpack stuff.  Stop rewriting history.

[bbfaz]

30 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Hopefully someone with better IT knowledge than I can post it.

It was a short video of a wolf howling, maybe a metaphor for a comeback of some capacity.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrmIKUEAyVZ/

[Davo5]

37 minutes ago, bbfaz said:

Everybody is happy and positive for Ontario Rugby League to grow and evolve.  It's the Wolfpack True Believers that started the Wolfpack stuff.  Stop rewriting history.

And you like others were like a fly around a freshly laid ######.

[bbfaz]

23 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

It didn't cost British RL - or you and me - one penny. It has highlighted the real problem with the game though, because *be under no illusion* practically the same things have been trotted out about Sheffield, London, and now Cornwall. (Before that it was Welsh clubs) 

It's almost irrelevant who or where a new club is or how many hoops they jump through - British RL does not want outsiders joining their party and having any of their cake. 

That's the bottom line. Accept it.

Thing is, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

The RFL does want outsiders joining the party.  They do so at the detriment of the game.  They would love to have Rugby League in the Shetland Isles, so long as they don't have to pay for it so they welcome anybody in.  Ottawa, New York, Cornwall?  Doesn't matter if you have a bunch of lads who've never played a game and you don't have any money. come on down.  The RFL's vetting of owners and ownership is pitiful, which is why we have a bunch of rubbish expansion clubs sitting at the bottom of League 1.

The Super League chairmen want outsiders joining the party.  They are happy for Catalans and Toulouse to come in because they bring something to the party.  It develops French players, it gives a good landing spot for players and they're proper Rugby League clubs.  They just don't want clubs who are a drain on an already-stretched system.  They don't want a Super League club that are based in Rochdale but play games on another continent and require the whole world to revolve around them to do even the most basic of things.  Do you think Leeds, Wigan and St Helens want to be in the same league as Wakey?  To them, Wakey drag the game down.  They would love teams in London or Sheffield or Newcastle but two of those teams only briefly got their act together before investors realised it's a money pit and they'll never make their money back.  That's the real problem; there's no real money to be made.

Also, the Wolfpack and their collapse cost reputation and it cost people their jobs.  So it cost something, it's naïve to say otherwise.  Players left other clubs to play for them and some haven't got back in. 

Do you know what would help?  It would help if people actually jumped through hoops though, rather than moan about the existence of hoops at all.  It would be nice if somebody brought something to the party, rather than vaguely promise things that never come.  The game seems to attract people in nice suits or people who look cool that talk a good game but ultimately deliver nothing.

 

In saying all of this, this is what I said on the IMG grading thread; if we're going to do franchising, we need to do it properly, like the Americans do.  If Toronto want in, they need to be vetted like the NBA vets new owners.  There need to be expansion fees, there needs to be evidence that you can develop your own players, you need to be developing an infrastructure to support the game in your area.  The RFL doesn't have the money to develop Rugby League in Canada.

[bbfaz]

43 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And you like others were like a fly around a freshly laid ######.

Takes one to know one. 

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, bbfaz said:

I live in the countryside now so, though I am not from Yorkshire, I am still allowed to be tight.

EDIT: Also, there's a discussion (here or on the Community Forum) about somebody charging £6 for a tier 5 game and it was taking the mick a little.

We have countryside in Yorkshire tha’ knows.

[bbfaz]

55 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

We have countryside in Yorkshire tha’ knows.

I'm really not from Yorkshire.  It really just was a nod to the people who said you need to get a programme if you pay for an amateur game.

[Gomersall]

11 minutes ago, bbfaz said:

I'm really not from Yorkshire. 

No need to apologise. Not all of us are blessed.

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, bbfaz said:

Thing is, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

The RFL does want outsiders joining the party.  They do so at the detriment of the game.  They would love to have Rugby League in the Shetland Isles, so long as they don't have to pay for it so they welcome anybody in.  Ottawa, New York, Cornwall?  Doesn't matter if you have a bunch of lads who've never played a game and you don't have any money. come on down.  The RFL's vetting of owners and ownership is pitiful, which is why we have a bunch of rubbish expansion clubs sitting at the bottom of League 1.

The Super League chairmen want outsiders joining the party.  They are happy for Catalans and Toulouse to come in because they bring something to the party.  It develops French players, it gives a good landing spot for players and they're proper Rugby League clubs.  They just don't want clubs who are a drain on an already-stretched system.  They don't want a Super League club that are based in Rochdale but play games on another continent and require the whole world to revolve around them to do even the most basic of things.  Do you think Leeds, Wigan and St Helens want to be in the same league as Wakey?  To them, Wakey drag the game down.  They would love teams in London or Sheffield or Newcastle but two of those teams only briefly got their act together before investors realised it's a money pit and they'll never make their money back.  That's the real problem; there's no real money to be made.

Also, the Wolfpack and their collapse cost reputation and it cost people their jobs.  So it cost something, it's naïve to say otherwise.  Players left other clubs to play for them and some haven't got back in. 

Do you know what would help?  It would help if people actually jumped through hoops though, rather than moan about the existence of hoops at all.  It would be nice if somebody brought something to the party, rather than vaguely promise things that never come.  The game seems to attract people in nice suits or people who look cool that talk a good game but ultimately deliver nothing.

 

In saying all of this, this is what I said on the IMG grading thread; if we're going to do franchising, we need to do it properly, like the Americans do.  If Toronto want in, they need to be vetted like the NBA vets new owners.  There need to be expansion fees, there needs to be evidence that you can develop your own players, you need to be developing an infrastructure to support the game in your area.  The RFL doesn't have the money to develop Rugby League in Canada.

Wrong

[Wigan Riversider]

1 hour ago, bbfaz said:

Thing is, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

The RFL does want outsiders joining the party.  They do so at the detriment of the game.  They would love to have Rugby League in the Shetland Isles, so long as they don't have to pay for it so they welcome anybody in.  Ottawa, New York, Cornwall?  Doesn't matter if you have a bunch of lads who've never played a game and you don't have any money. come on down.  The RFL's vetting of owners and ownership is pitiful, which is why we have a bunch of rubbish expansion clubs sitting at the bottom of League 1.

The Super League chairmen want outsiders joining the party.  They are happy for Catalans and Toulouse to come in because they bring something to the party.  It develops French players, it gives a good landing spot for players and they're proper Rugby League clubs.  They just don't want clubs who are a drain on an already-stretched system.  They don't want a Super League club that are based in Rochdale but play games on another continent and require the whole world to revolve around them to do even the most basic of things.  Do you think Leeds, Wigan and St Helens want to be in the same league as Wakey?  To them, Wakey drag the game down.  They would love teams in London or Sheffield or Newcastle but two of those teams only briefly got their act together before investors realised it's a money pit and they'll never make their money back.  That's the real problem; there's no real money to be made.

Also, the Wolfpack and their collapse cost reputation and it cost people their jobs.  So it cost something, it's naïve to say otherwise.  Players left other clubs to play for them and some haven't got back in. 

Do you know what would help?  It would help if people actually jumped through hoops though, rather than moan about the existence of hoops at all.  It would be nice if somebody brought something to the party, rather than vaguely promise things that never come.  The game seems to attract people in nice suits or people who look cool that talk a good game but ultimately deliver nothing.

 

In saying all of this, this is what I said on the IMG grading thread; if we're going to do franchising, we need to do it properly, like the Americans do.  If Toronto want in, they need to be vetted like the NBA vets new owners.  There need to be expansion fees, there needs to be evidence that you can develop your own players, you need to be developing an infrastructure to support the game in your area.  The RFL doesn't have the money to develop Rugby League in Canada.

You make a range of perfectly reasonable points.

I have always felt that the RFL and SLE (if it still exists) never see anything through. TWP from memory were way out of their depth in SL and granted COVID led to their demise. From memory they were funded independently and ran out of money. Am happy to be educated as to what happened.

A great opportunity to expand the game in new markets was lost with their demise IMHO. I think there was increased media coverage when TWP existed.

It's a positive that RL is back at Lamport.

[crashmon]

3 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

It didn't cost British RL - or you and me - one penny. It has highlighted the real problem with the game though, because *be under no illusion* practically the same things have been trotted out about Sheffield, London, and now Cornwall. (Before that it was Welsh clubs) 

It's almost irrelevant who or where a new club is or how many hoops they jump through - British RL does not want outsiders joining their party and having any of their cake. 

That's the bottom line. Accept it.

 

Slight correction

It's almost irrelevant who or where a new club is or how many hoops they jump through - Yorkshire\Lancs\Humberside RL does not want outsiders joining their party and having any of their cake. 

That's the bottom line. Accept it.

Bristish RL is as much a fantasy as the World series in Basesball is really a "World" series

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by crashmon

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, bbfaz said:

Thing is, this makes absolutely no sense at all.

The RFL does want outsiders joining the party.  They do so at the detriment of the game.  They would love to have Rugby League in the Shetland Isles, so long as they don't have to pay for it so they welcome anybody in.  Ottawa, New York, Cornwall?  Doesn't matter if you have a bunch of lads who've never played a game and you don't have any money. come on down.  The RFL's vetting of owners and ownership is pitiful, which is why we have a bunch of rubbish expansion clubs sitting at the bottom of League 1.

The Super League chairmen want outsiders joining the party.  They are happy for Catalans and Toulouse to come in because they bring something to the party.  It develops French players, it gives a good landing spot for players and they're proper Rugby League clubs.  They just don't want clubs who are a drain on an already-stretched system.  They don't want a Super League club that are based in Rochdale but play games on another continent and require the whole world to revolve around them to do even the most basic of things.  Do you think Leeds, Wigan and St Helens want to be in the same league as Wakey?  To them, Wakey drag the game down.  They would love teams in London or Sheffield or Newcastle but two of those teams only briefly got their act together before investors realised it's a money pit and they'll never make their money back.  That's the real problem; there's no real money to be made.

Also, the Wolfpack and their collapse cost reputation and it cost people their jobs.  So it cost something, it's naïve to say otherwise.  Players left other clubs to play for them and some haven't got back in. 

Do you know what would help?  It would help if people actually jumped through hoops though, rather than moan about the existence of hoops at all.  It would be nice if somebody brought something to the party, rather than vaguely promise things that never come.  The game seems to attract people in nice suits or people who look cool that talk a good game but ultimately deliver nothing.

 

In saying all of this, this is what I said on the IMG grading thread; if we're going to do franchising, we need to do it properly, like the Americans do.  If Toronto want in, they need to be vetted like the NBA vets new owners.  There need to be expansion fees, there needs to be evidence that you can develop your own players, you need to be developing an infrastructure to support the game in your area.  The RFL doesn't have the money to develop Rugby League in Canada.

The problem there is that RL can't offer any franchise buyers value for their money, so they can't charge any meaningful franchise fee.

Over here expansion franchise buyers (in both major and minor leagues alike) get a lot of value for their money.  They get territorial legal rights which go with owning a franchise, they become equal partners in the League with all the other franchises, they get support and guidance from the League as they set their franchise up and they get access to players to stock their roster through an expansion draft.  To get anyone to pay a fee comparable even to what minor pro leagues over here get, RL would have to offer someone who wants to buy in comparable benefits and support.

[Hello]

Once again, the detractors of the Wolfpack who say it was never going to work fail to acknowledge:- 

a) they brought much more attention to the sport on BBC and other media sources, attention that faltered sharply when they were "voted" out and therefore WERE having a positive impact for all concerned.

b) they were verging on 5 figure crowds even in the second tier, and their fans were enthusiastic and passionate and a great look for the game and were helping to shed the stuck in the past image that so clearly holds the game back. There would have very likely been considerable future increases in crowds if they had been allowed to take part in SL and play some home fixtures, with an improved stadium on the horizon with success. 

c) as ever, the knockers conveniently ignore the massive world crisis that was covid, and how it's crippling effect on any income streams strangled this extremely promising club.  

[binosh]

I’m sure the RFL are happy to have new clubs join the competitions, i haven’t seen much moaning about Cornwall or The Midlands.

These teams however are doing it in the perceived correct manner, starting humble and trying to slowly build. 

RL is a peasant sport, it has no money, Toronto blew their load getting to the promised land and and tried to be something they couldn’t afford. Until we have a Minimum 12 teams (ideally 14-16) at the top level who can afford to spend the cap, improve the standard of games, fill venues, have a youth development programme that offers more than £50 a game, make every game competitive and televised and everything else that will make the game great again it’s absolutely pointless plonking a fabricated team in some stupid outpost and being surprised when it inevitably fails.

Toulouse are a prime example, history, long standing, established and absolutely spaffed their opportunity up the wall, a team that offered so much potential to grow the game but did absolutely ZERO when they got there. 

[binosh]

14 minutes ago, Hello said:

Once again, the detractors of the Wolfpack who say it was never going to work fail to acknowledge:- 

a) they brought much more attention to the sport on BBC and other media sources, attention that faltered sharply when they were "voted" out and therefore WERE having a positive impact for all concerned.

b) they were verging on 5 figure crowds even in the second tier, and their fans were enthusiastic and passionate and a great look for the game and were helping to shed the stuck in the past image that so clearly holds the game back. There would have very likely been considerable future increases in crowds if they had been allowed to take part in SL and play some home fixtures, with an improved stadium on the horizon with success. 

c) as ever, the knockers conveniently ignore the massive world crisis that was covid, and how it's crippling effect on any income streams strangled this extremely promising club.  

 

[The Masked Poster]

11 minutes ago, Hello said:

Once again, the detractors of the Wolfpack who say it was never going to work fail to acknowledge:- 

a) they brought much more attention to the sport on BBC and other media sources, attention that faltered sharply when they were "voted" out and therefore WERE having a positive impact for all concerned.

b) they were verging on 5 figure crowds even in the second tier, and their fans were enthusiastic and passionate and a great look for the game and were helping to shed the stuck in the past image that so clearly holds the game back. There would have very likely been considerable future increases in crowds if they had been allowed to take part in SL and play some home fixtures, with an improved stadium on the horizon with success. 

c) as ever, the knockers conveniently ignore the massive world crisis that was covid, and how it's crippling effect on any income streams strangled this extremely promising club.  

It's just yet another point to add to the collective blame culture. 

There are many valid criticisms to be had about Toronto being in SL, it's not an obvious fit for a start. There *are* points to be made as to why it wasn't a practical idea. It's just that it's almost irrelevant because the criticisms about travel, money etc etc are levelled at every single new club that emerges. Every. Single. Time. 

Look no further than Keighley wanting to dump Cornwall. Replace club in Canada with club in Loughborough and the reasons they shouldn't be involved in RL will be trotted out without fail. 

[Guest]

Didn't Toronto pull more than Leigh even when they were a Championship side?

Just saying. 

[The Masked Poster]

4 minutes ago, binosh said:

I’m sure the RFL are happy to have new clubs join the competitions, i haven’t seen much moaning about Cornwall or The Midlands.

These teams however are doing it in the perceived correct manner, starting humble and trying to slowly build. 

RL is a peasant sport, it has no money, Toronto blew their load getting to the promised land and and tried to be something they couldn’t afford. Until we have a Minimum 12 teams (ideally 14-16) at the top level who can afford to spend the cap, improve the standard of games, fill venues, have a youth development programme that offers more than £50 a game, make every game competitive and televised and everything else that will make the game great again it’s absolutely pointless plonking a fabricated team in some stupid outpost and being surprised when it inevitably fails.

Toulouse are a prime example, history, long standing, established and absolutely spaffed their opportunity up the wall, a team that offered so much potential to grow the game but did absolutely ZERO when they got there. 

Toronto started in the bottom division and had to work their way up. But it still wasn't ok.

Should Cornwall or Midlands begin to have any success, either in crowds or on field success, the knives will soon come out for them, rest assured.